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Sinner-to-Saint

League Reconstruction 20/21 season

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25 minutes ago, Green Day said:

If we have to go to these places (dunfy aside) they can take reconstruction and shove it up their collective arses..........

Hey, enough of that, plus I don't think you'd be visiting Partick anytime soon unless it was in a cup match.

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9 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

You're basing all this on the current set up though.

It stands to reason that in a bigger league and playing each other less often, Aberdeen (for example) would have a better chance. They'd be swapping fixtures at Ibrox, Parkhead, Easter Road, Fir Park for fixtures at Morton, Ayr, Partick, Dunfermline.

It makes no difference. Given the facts of the current structure it is more likely Aberdeen will drop points against Dundee or ICT than celtic or sevco. Kilmarnock last season demonstrated that the Ugly Sisters can be matched head-on, but raising your game against the US is pointless if you scatter points to the four winds against The Rest.

Having said that, if, for example, Kilmarnock were within 4 points of the leaders  in a 16 team league after 22 games the whole dynamic would change for the 8 game run-in. Whereas, last season, with 16 games left the smaller  squad meant injuries & suspensions played a bigger role...probably.  It needs that consistency against all teams though, not just raising your game against celtic and sevco.

I wouldn't mind giving it a go, just to see, but it is never going to happen because the 5 biggest city clubs are money grabbing twonks.

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I'm not sure whether a moderator would want to merge this thread with the other one below? It seems silly discussing the same topic in two different threads...

 

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Me as one of the ' auld yins' who vividly remembers the 18 team top league set up before 1974 , I have to say that as a supporter of Motherwell who were almost always mid table at the time I found the arrangement to be terrible.

Basically having no chance of Europe , little risk of relegation and invariably papped out of both cups early, we found ourselves as early as February with nothing to play for. Consequently our attendances plummeted sometimes getting as low as 2,000 when up against clubs in a similar position. 

So for all I understand why some others see the attraction of playing each other only twice and blooding more youngsters the reality is that this is considerably outweighed by the drop in attendances , loss of revenue and the mind numbing boredom when playing games that don't matter. Contrast with just now when invariably deep into the season all clubs have something to play for.

Therefore I would recommend that unless we can retain the current arrangement ( which with Dundee's quid pro quo making this unlikely) I would go reluctantly with an increase to 14. But I would insist on keeping the play offs which to me have been brilliant.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Marinello said:

Me as one of the ' auld yins' who vividly remembers the 18 team top league set up before 1974 , I have to say that as a supporter of Motherwell who were almost always mid table at the time I found the arrangement to be terrible.

Basically having no chance of Europe , little risk of relegation and invariably papped out of both cups early, we found ourselves as early as February with nothing to play for. Consequently our attendances plummeted sometimes getting as low as 2,000 when up against clubs in a similar position. 

So for all I understand why some others see the attraction of playing each other only twice and blooding more youngsters the reality is that this is considerably outweighed by the drop in attendances , loss of revenue and the mind numbing boredom when playing games that don't matter. Contrast with just now when invariably deep into the season all clubs have something to play for.

Therefore I would recommend that unless we can retain the current arrangement ( which with Dundee's quid pro quo making this unlikely) I would go reluctantly with an increase to 14. But I would insist on keeping the play offs which to me have been brilliant.

 

 

This man speaketh wisdom.

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Sorry but you're wrong. The size of the league is irrelevnt to any other club putting in a challenge. The fact is that dropped points against The Rest play as big a part as the myth of dropping 24 points against the Ugly Sisters.
Last season Kilmarnock (Best of the Rest) dropped 34 points in 30 games against The Rest (37.78%).  Celtic only dropped dropped 21 in 34 games aainst The Rest (20.59%) . Aberdeen in 4th dropped 28 in their 30 games (31.11%)  If you're interested, Killie matched the US with a W3 D2 L3 against them.  They actually picked up 11 points vs the US, Celtic only picked up 6. Even given Aberdeen's general capitulation against Celtic, they still picked 5pts in those US games, just a point less than Celtic.
Apply those percentages to a 16 team league and Killie/Aberdeen would STILL be 12 points off top spot; that isn't a genuine challenge and
If a team can get close to matching the OF in games versus The Rest then the games against celtic and sevco would take care of themselves and QED a genuine challenge in a 10, 12, 16 or 18 team league.
It's a more genuine challenge than there currently is. I'm not for a second saying we'll suddenly see a different winner every year but it could and probably would lead to a more competitive top end, and likely the same at the bottom.

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For the sake of Scottish football Hearts need to stay in the league.  All the Diddies are gonna miss the Maroon pound that floods into their post industrial hovels when the establishment comes to town.

Big Jock Chewin' The Fat on Make a GIF

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23 minutes ago, Marinello said:

Me as one of the ' auld yins' who vividly remembers the 18 team top league set up before 1974 , I have to say that as a supporter of Motherwell who were almost always mid table at the time I found the arrangement to be terrible.

Basically having no chance of Europe , little risk of relegation and invariably papped out of both cups early, we found ourselves as early as February with nothing to play for. Consequently our attendances plummeted sometimes getting as low as 2,000 when up against clubs in a similar position. 

So for all I understand why some others see the attraction of playing each other only twice and blooding more youngsters the reality is that this is considerably outweighed by the drop in attendances , loss of revenue and the mind numbing boredom when playing games that don't matter. Contrast with just now when invariably deep into the season all clubs have something to play for.

Therefore I would recommend that unless we can retain the current arrangement ( which with Dundee's quid pro quo making this unlikely) I would go reluctantly with an increase to 14. But I would insist on keeping the play offs which to me have been brilliant.

 

 

6-Mohsni-Getty.jpg?w968h681

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Was the winter break not brought in because of the Betfred cup group stages meaning teams came back 2 weeks earlier, wouldn’t see it getting scrapped unless the group stages also so go with it.

FWIW I also hate the winter break mainly due to the farcical nature of it being at the end of December when the weather isn’t that bad, we then have brutal weather at the end of January/start of February every year without fail.
If the winter break is due to the Betfred Cup groups, why don't the Championship and Leagues One and Two get a winter break? Why do the Premiership clubs squeeze in extra midweek fixtures at Christmas that the lower leagues don't bother with?

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If they were to look at a 16-team league with the required 4 OF games, would this suggestion fit the bill?

All 16 teams play each other home and away - 30 games.

League splits into two groups of 8, and each group member plays each other once - 7 games, total of 37 games played.

The two groups then split further, making 4 groups of 4, and each group member plays each other once - 3 games, total of 40 games.

Would potentially make the final games of the season very exciting as it will be teams directly in competition for each other, and would keep the number of games relatively similar to the current system. Also would very likely lead to 4 OF games (unless Rangers are particularly shite one season). Definitely not perfect and the idea of separating the league in 4 parts might be too much for some, but it's just an idea I thought about. Apologies if someone else already thought of this, I would not have been aware of it.

Edited by RossBFaeDundee

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3 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

If they were to look at a 16-team league with the required 4 OF games, would this suggestion fit the bill?

All 16 teams play each other home and away - 30 games.

League splits into two groups of 8, and each group member plays each other once - 7 games, total of 37 games played.

The two groups then split further, making 4 groups of 4, and each group member plays each other once - 3 games, total of 40 games.

Would potentially make the final games of the season very exciting as it will be teams directly in competition for each other, and would keep the number of games relatively similar to the current system. Definitely not perfect and the idea of separating the league in 4 parts might be too much for some, but it's just an idea I thought about. Apologies if someone else already thought of this, I would not have been aware of it.

Interesting suggestion! I think the SPFL have been advised by the police to ensure the Old Firm is not a title decider, which wouldn't happen in any other league in the world. I can't think of any other flaws in that suggestion, other than three splits might be a bit of a headache for those planning the fixture list.

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5 hours ago, RussellV1 said:

Here’s my idea 

16 teams - 30 fixtures home & away

1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16* from the previous season’s standings split into 4 groups to get 6 more fixtures.

36 games, unless hilarity happens 4 Glasgow Derby games to keep sky happy 

*replace relegated teams with promoted teams. 

Thats almost a conference system and is how the Elite League ice hockey tries to level out the playing field between the larger teams down south and the Scottish teams.

its way to out there to be accepted but I do like it.

5 hours ago, craigkillie said:


Why on earth would you use the previous season's finishes rather than just having a split?

You could have all the fixtures set out in one go at the start of the season using this method. Play first half of the season and the "placed games" before Christmas and then start over again. A total of 18 games in each half of the season, balance fixtures and it gives Sky their 4 OF games that they seem to want, unless one of them has a disastrous season and then the next would just have 2 OF games.

Those promoted and who just escaped have 6 "easier" games and if a team has a good season they then have 6 harder games but I guess the extra revenue.  I would imagine it could cause a bit of a swing in the table but people want variety. 

using last years table the first group would be Celtic, Rangers , Kilmarnock and Aberdeen , second group of Hearts, Hibs, St Johnstone and Motherwell, third group Livingston, Hamilton, St Mirren and Dundee and the fourth group Ross County, Dundee United, ICT and Ayr.  If someone in the lower group picked up 12-18 points they would be placed  a lot higher that season. 

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What about focusing on other things and not  just numbers in each league, if we are starting again..

 

Proper financial fair play to stop teams “over investing”

Proper tools to defeat sectarian singing

Minimum number of home grown players in squads/lineups 

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Premiership of 16 teams all playing each other home and away gives us 30 games. 

 

League then splits in to 2 x8 and teams play each other once takes us to 37 games. 
Home and away being decided by ‘luck of the draw’ 
 

 

League then splits into 4x4 and all play each other once taking us to 40 games. Fixtures reversed from previous split. 
 

 

Top 4 fighting for league/Europe 

2nd and 3rd group of 4 pretty much playing for prize money and places. 

Bottom 4 fighting it out for automatic  relegation/ playoffs 


Bottom 2 automatically relegated with third bottom in the play offs. 

 

Keeps the 4 OF games. 
 

Potentially gives you final 3 games in top and bottom groups that would have a lot riding on them. 
 

Adds 2 games to the season but reverting back to a knockout bet Fred could compensate for that. 

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7 minutes ago, Saint Shug said:

Premiership of 16 teams all playing each other home and away gives us 30 games. 

 

League then splits in to 2 x8 and teams play each other once takes us to 37 games. 
Home and away being decided by ‘luck of the draw’ 
 

 

League then splits into 4x4 and all play each other once taking us to 40 games. Fixtures reversed from previous split. 
 

 

Top 4 fighting for league/Europe 

2nd and 3rd group of 4 pretty much playing for prize money and places. 

Bottom 4 fighting it out for automatic  relegation/ playoffs 


Bottom 2 automatically relegated with third bottom in the play offs. 

 

Keeps the 4 OF games. 
 

Potentially gives you final 3 games in top and bottom groups that would have a lot riding on them. 
 

Adds 2 games to the season but reverting back to a knockout bet Fred could compensate for that. 

Fucking hell.

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22 minutes ago, Saint Shug said:

Premiership of 16 teams all playing each other home and away gives us 30 games. 

 

League then splits in to 2 x8 and teams play each other once takes us to 37 games. 
Home and away being decided by ‘luck of the draw’ 
 

 

League then splits into 4x4 and all play each other once taking us to 40 games. Fixtures reversed from previous split. 
 

 

Top 4 fighting for league/Europe 

2nd and 3rd group of 4 pretty much playing for prize money and places. 

Bottom 4 fighting it out for automatic  relegation/ playoffs 


Bottom 2 automatically relegated with third bottom in the play offs. 

 

Keeps the 4 OF games. 
 

Potentially gives you final 3 games in top and bottom groups that would have a lot riding on them. 
 

Adds 2 games to the season but reverting back to a knockout bet Fred could compensate for that. 

Cease...desist...stop...refrain...

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9 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Cease...desist...stop...refrain...

Well everyone else is talking pish so I thought I would have a wee go. 

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43 minutes ago, flood said:

What about focusing on other things and not  just numbers in each league, if we are starting again..

 

Proper financial fair play to stop teams “over investing”

Proper tools to defeat sectarian singing

Minimum number of home grown players in squads/lineups 

Proper pitches to play on.

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If the winter break is due to the Betfred Cup groups, why don't the Championship and Leagues One and Two get a winter break? Why do the Premiership clubs squeeze in extra midweek fixtures at Christmas that the lower leagues don't bother with?


They finish 2 games or 2 weeks sooner than us (exc playoffs). Those games I’d imagine are to make up for no league games being played for 21+ days.

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