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League Reconstruction 20/21 season


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I would hazard a guess at very little. There is a reason that 4 old firm games are in the contract and 4 Hibs hearts games aren’t.

It's going to be worth less than the old firm game but more than nothing.

In an effort improve on hazarding a guess I went looking for some actual data

The best I found was an incomplete set of BARB TV rating for 2017-18

 

These were missing

MatchDate  Kickoff HomeTeam         AwayTeam         Barb---------- ------- ---------------- ---------------- ---------------------------2018-04-08 12:30   Hamilton         Celtic           Not Available2018-04-21 12:30   Hibs             Celtic           Not Available2018-04-27 19:45   Aberdeen         Hearts           Not Available2018-04-28 12:30   Hamilton         Ross County      Not Available2018-05-04 19:45   Partick Thistle  Ross County      Not Available2018-05-06 12:30   Hearts           Celtic           Not Available2017-08-11 19:45   Partick Thistle  Celtic           Not Available2017-08-26 15:00   Ross County      Rangers          Not Available

But these are the remainder in order (the percentages are percentages of the total for games we have data for)

MatchDate  Kickoff HomeTeam         AwayTeam         Barb---------- ------- ---------------- ---------------- ---------------------------2017-12-30 12:00   Celtic           Rangers          644000(9.2%)2018-03-11 12:00   Rangers          Celtic           541000(7.7%)2018-04-29 12:00   Celtic           Rangers          394000(5.6%)2017-12-17 12:15   Hearts           Celtic           294000(4.2%)2017-09-23 12:00   Rangers          Celtic           275000(3.9%)2018-02-18 14:00   Hamilton         Rangers          236000(3.4%)2017-12-03 19:45   Aberdeen         Rangers          218000(3.1%)2018-05-13 12:30   Celtic           Aberdeen         196000(2.8%)2017-10-25 19:45   Aberdeen         Celtic           182000(2.6%)2018-03-09 19:45   Hibs             Hearts           179000(2.6%)2017-10-24 19:45   Hibs             Hearts           177000(2.5%)2017-08-06 13:00   Motherwell       Rangers          174000(2.5%)2017-10-13 19:45   St Johnstone     Rangers          164000(2.3%)2017-12-10 12:15   Hibs             Celtic           164000(2.3%)2018-03-18 14:30   Motherwell       Celtic           163000(2.3%)2018-05-08 19:45   Aberdeen         Rangers          163000(2.3%)2017-12-14 19:45   Hibs             Rangers          158000(2.3%)2018-05-09 19:45   Hearts           Hibs             144000(2.1%)2018-04-22 12:00   Rangers          Hearts           137000(2.0%)2018-05-13 12:30   Hibs             Rangers          135000(1.9%)2018-02-25 13:15   Aberdeen         Celtic           128000(1.8%)2017-12-27 19:45   Hearts           Hibs             127000(1.8%)2017-12-23 12:15   Kilmarnock       Rangers          124000(1.8%)2017-09-08 19:45   Hamilton         Celtic           123000(1.8%)2017-08-05 12:30   Celtic           Hearts           121000(1.7%)2018-03-16 19:45   St Johnstone     Hibs             120000(1.7%)2017-11-18 12:30   Ross County      Celtic           119000(1.7%)2017-12-16 12:15   Aberdeen         Hibs             116000(1.7%)2017-09-29 19:45   Hamilton         Rangers          113000(1.6%)2017-11-24 19:45   Dundee           Rangers          108000(1.5%)2017-12-08 19:45   Dundee           Aberdeen         107000(1.5%)2018-02-02 12:30   Kilmarnock       Celtic           106000(1.5%)2017-10-28 12:30   Hearts           Rangers          105000(1.5%)2017-09-15 19:45   Partick Thistle  Rangers          99000(1.4%)2017-11-04 12:30   St Johnstone     Celtic           94000(1.3%)2018-02-17 12:15   Ross County      Hearts           74000(1.1%)2017-09-24 12:15   Motherwell       Aberdeen         73000(1.0%)2017-11-26 12:15   Kilmarnock       Aberdeen         70000(1.0%)2017-11-29 19:45   Rangers          Aberdeen         63000(0.9%)2017-08-25 12:15   Dundee           Hibs             59000(0.8%)2018-04-01 13:30   Dundee           Hearts           55000(0.8%)2018-01-28 14:00   Ross County      Rangers          54000(0.8%)2017-08-19 12:30   Kilmarnock       Celtic           52000(0.7%)2018-02-24 12:15   Kilmarnock       Hibs             40000(0.6%)

With all the caveats about incomplete data there are a few things that leap out

Only the two end of season relegation battles in Dingwall didn't feature Rangers, Celtic, Hearts. Hibs or Aberdeen

the 4 Old Firm Games  averaged 463,500 which is 26.5% of the total for 48 matches we have data for

4 Edinburgh Derbies averaged 156,750 which is about 9% of that total 

Nobody wanted to watch Kilmarnock Games even though they were OK that season

 

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1 hour ago, CountyFan said:

With respect, that's nonsense. By your logic we should all be vociferously supporting your knee-jerk reconstruction. I'm hearing crickets. 

Nobody as far as I can see is clamouring to reconstruct to 'save' Hearts because everyone else realises that this was the least shit way to deal with a total clusterfuck. 

In addition,  I'll fucking riot if you stay up on a one year reconstruct and County go down automatically in 11th next season. Take your medicine and come back in a year. 

Crickets? In Dingwall? F me, global warming is getting serious.

Riot? In Dingwall? F me, Scottish football is getting serious

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7 hours ago, TonyFerrino said:

"Hearts owner Ann Budge plans to finalise a league reconstruction proposal by the end of this week and circulate it to clubs across the Scottish Professional Football League.

Budge’s priority above all else is devising a restructuring model which would expand the Premiership from 12 to 14 or potentially 16 teams, thus keeping Hearts in Scotland’s top flight.

The Edinburgh club suffered an enforced relegation to the Championship on Monday when the SPFL board ratified the termination of season 2019-20 due to the coronavirus outbreak.

Budge is now talking to fellow owners and chief executives across all four divisions to garner opinions on reconstruction. She intends to note all feedback and concerns to ensure whatever formal paper she puts forward is as robust and thorough as possible in order to stand the best chance of approval.

She would need to submit a members’ resolution for league reconstruction to the SPFL, which would then require a vote from all 42 clubs.

To pass, it would need 11 of the 12 Premiership clubs to vote in favour, plus eight in the Championship and 15 in total across League 1 and League 2. Hearts would be voting as a Championship side with their top-flight place taken by promoted Dundee United.

The Edinburgh businesswoman hopes clubs will at least look at a strategy for change after Premiership teams stated earlier this month that they would not discuss the issue during the coronavirus crisis.

That led to the collapse of the league reconstruction task force, led by Budge and the Hamilton vice-chair Les Gray, only two weeks after it was formed with the SPFL board’s blessing.

Budge was left frustrated that many in Scotland’s top division were unwilling to consider a restructure but she is now more hopeful of a rethink.

Whether she can garner sufficient support, particularly among the top 12, remains to be seen.

Stranraer and Partick Thistle were relegated from the Championship and League 1 respectively as a result of the decision to bring this season to a premature end.

They and several others will back Budge in her reconstruction attempts but it is those in the Premiership whose votes would be most crucial because of the 11-1 majority needed.

Budge is working tirelessly this week in the hope of being ready with her plan by Friday, if not before. She is eager to retrieve the situation after a wretched campaign in which Hearts won only four of 30 league games before Scottish football was shut down on 13 March .

They languished at the bottom of the league at that stage, four points adrift of second-bottom Hamilton.

With 24 points still available across the remaining eight matches, they remained hopeful of surviving had the fixture list been completed. Budge firmly believes no club should suffer punishment as a result of the coronavirus pandemic and is not yet giving up hope of staying in the Premiership.

She is aware that the significant funds spent by Hearts in recent seasons under former manager Craig Levein should have ensured they were nowhere near the foot of the table. Levein was sacked last October and Budge stands accused of leaving him in the job too long before finally taking action. He left Hearts bottom of the league and Daniel Stendel took charge in December, although form did not improve.

Reconstruction would be the simplest remedy to the mess from a Tynecastle perspective. That is Budge’s preferred option but, should it fail to materialise, she would then look at the possibility of legal action against the SPFL over the decision to send Hearts and others down a division.

She has put reconstruction top of her agenda for the moment and does not plan to discuss Stendel’s contract until she is certain which league Hearts will play in next season.

He and Budge initially planned to speak once the SPFL had officially called a halt to the 2019-20 campaign. The German’s existing deal was due to run until summer 2022, but he is now technically a free agent after relegation was confirmed as his existing deal is only valid in Scotland’s top league.

Stendel is currently at home in Hannover awaiting the outcome of Budge’s push for a league restructure of some sort. He wants to see clarity on which division the club will play in to ensure talks on his future can be as straightforward as possible.

His coaching staff, assistant Jorg Sievers and coach Dale Tonge, are also waiting to learn their fate.

Stendel, 46, joined Hearts last December to replace Levein, the former manager and director of football being shunted into a background role by Budge.

The former Barnsley coach has had to work on scouting and recruitment due to the absence of a sports director at Riccarton and would like more support in those departments if he is to stay on."

 

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4 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

The Edinburgh derby is the most boring derby in Scottish football and I'd even go as far to include shitey pretend derbies in that such as Aberdeen vs United and St Johnstone vs Dundee.

See I think this, while true, is exactly what is wrong with, not Scottish football, but Scottish football fans. Every away c**t that comes near your stadium, your town, your fucking pub  needs the same vitriol. f**k kiddy on derbies like the utility derby,  proper hate fests is the way ahead.

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4 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

The Edinburgh derby is the most boring derby in Scottish football and I'd even go as far to include shitey pretend derbies in that such as Aberdeen vs United and St Johnstone vs Dundee.

Been to many have you?  

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1 minute ago, TonyFerrino said:

Been to many have you?  

Wouldn't attend that borefest. Bad enough watching them on TV.

Edited by Ludo*1
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Just now, Ludo*1 said:

Wouldn't attend that borefest. Bad enough watching them on TV.

Opinions are like arseholes.  Everybody has one, but I've certainly nae interest in yours.

My arsehole says there have been a fair few gash ones, but for the most part they're pretty decent.  Generally lacking in skill or finesse, but if I wanted that I'd have a Spanish team.  Probably helps I support one of the the teams involved though. 

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See I think this, while true, is exactly what is wrong with, not Scottish football, but Scottish football fans. Every away c**t that comes near your stadium, your town, your fucking pub  needs the same vitriol. f**k kiddy on derbies like the utility derby,  proper hate fests is the way ahead.


That sounds exhausting to be quite honest with you.
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2 hours ago, TonyFerrino said:

Opinions are like arseholes.  Everybody has one, but I've certainly nae interest in yours.

My arsehole says there have been a fair few gash ones, but for the most part they're pretty decent.  Generally lacking in skill or finesse, but if I wanted that I'd have a Spanish team.  Probably helps I support one of the the teams involved though. 

If you've no interest in my opinion, why question me in the first place?

Your final sentence is spot on. It's pretty unanimous that bar a few famous outliers, the Edinburgh Derby is a turgid watch for the neutral.

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34 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

the Edinburgh Derby is a turgid watch for the neutral.

Luckily we won't have that problem for a while yet, then.

.......and considerably longer before we see another of those fabled "El-Classico-esqe" Dundee derbies, eh?

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1 minute ago, Green Day said:

Luckily we won't have that problem for a while yet, then.

.......and considerably longer before we see another of those fabled "El-Classico-esqe" Dundee derbies, eh?

Calling them that is besmirching the spectacle of the Teckle derby.

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8 hours ago, ropy said:

Does the contract actually specify 4 OF games or just specify a league format where it is feasible?

Theoretically Rangers could finish bottom six, what happens then?

rangers fans would “asterix” celtic winning another tainted league title

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8 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

We need to get ourselves in a position where we are not reliant on 4 OF games dictating the whole of Scottish football. Next time our deal is up we should be pressing for short term pain for long term gain.

It's clear for all to see that this single requirement is holding the game back. And, if Celtic & Rangers didn't play each other as often as they did, the games would mean even more.

I genuinely believe we had that chance when Rangers went bust and were demoted into the 3rd Division.

If we had a fully functioning pyramid Rangers returning would have taken an extended period of time (not 3/4 years).

This would have forced teams into relying on 1 Old firm teams money (and potentially after a while learn to be self sufficient on 0 old firm games).

Scottish football not having a functioning pyramid allowed Rangers the clear route back to the Premiership that was required for the TV companies and scottish football establishment could see. 

This enabled the TV companies to be patient on Rangers return to the top flight and framing 'The Journey' fairytale that was broadcasted for everyone to see before normal service resuming once 'The Journey' was concluded. 

Scottish Football had its chance to take the spotlight off the old firm however due to decades of resisting a functioning football pyramid, that particular opportunity was lost.

Thankfully the pyramid is starting to take very good shape and this gives me hope in what scottish football can become in the future.

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I'd support a 16 team league with home gate sharing, so Celtic and Sevco cough up and a more even playing field results. That's it tho.  I'm being magnanimous btw as Hibs average 17/18k and wouldn't gain anything but it would weaken THEM.

Edited by Snifter Pee Rot
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34 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

“All credit to Ann and Hearts as they have to fight their own corner. But they were so poor when they came to us that Wednesday night that I thought they had no chance of staying up anyway.”

Excellent stuff.

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