League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[RossBFaeDundee]

Boo.

[steelmen]

It was a 'no lasting harm done' offence, it already cost the two clubs a five-figure sum in legal costs, and it does set the precedent that this behaviour will be punished, with the possibility of bigger punishments for subsequent repetitions. There's also the warning from Lord Clark that the rule could possibly have been illegal if the punishment was too severe, so they were probably wise not to chance it.

The legal fees don’t come into it, they knew the risks when they raised the case.

Now we have a precedent that you can take the spfl to court, force other clubs to spend money defending themselves and all the SFA will do is give you a tiny wee flick on the wrist for breaching their rules.

Expulsion was probably too severe, but the fine should have been a fair bit more. Hearts fine could have been up to £100k(?) yet the get £2,500? Cop out.

[The Moonster]

15 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

No they didn't. There was no attempt to halt or postpone the league in the petition to the Court of Session. Delaying the league and bankrupting smaller clubs wa maybe on the wishlist of the JKB moonhowlers, but it didn't form part of the arbitration.

Didn't Hearts say in one of their many statements that they would look to stop the league going ahead if they didn't get what they wanted? 

Bankrupting smaller clubs came in the form of their ridiculous £8M compensation claim. 

[Aim Here]

11 minutes ago, steelmen said:

The legal fees don’t come into it, they knew the risks when they raised the case.

Now we have a precedent that you can take the spfl to court, force other clubs to spend money defending themselves and all the SFA will do is give you a tiny wee flick on the wrist for breaching their rules.

Expulsion was probably too severe, but the fine should have been a fair bit more. Hearts fine could have been up to £100k(?) yet the get £2,500? Cop out.

The point of mentioning legal fees is that their rulebreaking didn't harm the SPFL, and the rule was eventually enacted. It didn't end up causing any harm to anyone other than Hearts and Thistle.

And Hearts were entitled to take the SPFL before the Court of Session; the wrongdoing was that they didn't sist the case to arbitration themselves, forcing the SPFL to do it for them (and even had they just agreed to the SPFL's motion, rather than opposed it, they'd probably have gotten away with it).

Fine severity doesn't go by precedents. You can still easily justify ramping up the punishment for repeated offences, or ones with more harmful consequences. And note also that Lord Clark did mention in his ruling that he was looking carefully at the severity of the punishment, because an overly draconian punishment may have been unlawful. The SFA are wise not to get their own rulebook ruled illegal by dishing out a severe punishment for a relatively mild offence.

And the maximum fine for Hearts was £500k. Thistle could have been fined £100k.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Aim Here

[Aim Here]

Just now, The Moonster said:

Didn't Hearts say in one of their many statements that they would look to stop the league going ahead if they didn't get what they wanted? 

Bankrupting smaller clubs came in the form of their ridiculous £8M compensation claim. 

They said it was an option, but they weren't going to do it just yet. It would be a bit of an Orwellian thought police vibe to punish them for something they didn't actually try to do, but rather just verbally considered...

[Les Westander of County]

Everyone more or less saves face. To keep their fans onside, Hearts & Partick had to appear to be doing all they could to resist the relegation decision. They tried. They lost. The most rabid fans will never forgive but ... Permission to move on now granted. Substantial fine would have been rubbing salt in it and unnecessarily building continuing animosity.

That'll do Pig. That'll do.

 

 

[The Moonster]

30 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

They said it was an option, but they weren't going to do it just yet. It would be a bit of an Orwellian thought police vibe to punish them for something they didn't actually try to do, but rather just verbally considered...

f**k them.

[DA Baracus]

I imagine the disgracefully stupid cretins over on JKB will be going mental over this and flinging shite at the walls as they plot to murder the entire SFA and Beiruit Hampden.

[TonyFerrino]

So did Anne burn it to the ground in the end?  

Looks to me as, much like last season, they've won f**k all. Thanks for keeping lockdown entertaining though, Jamboids.

[DA Baracus]

Tom English will be weeping furiously as he bangs out an article about this latest gross injustice.

[RandomGuy.]

Quite like the fact the SFA just gave them a bog standard fine.

Relegated all their huffing and puffing about "bringing down the Scottish game" to nothing more than a minor inconvenience. 

[Insaintee]

34 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

I imagine the disgracefully stupid cretins over on JKB will be going mental over this and flinging shite at the walls as they plot to murder the entire SFA and Beiruit Hampden.

Lets hope so

[DC92]

 

1 hour ago, steelmen said:

 

The legal fees don’t come into it, they knew the risks when they raised the case.

Now we have a precedent that you can take the spfl to court, force other clubs to spend money defending themselves and all the SFA will do is give you a tiny wee flick on the wrist for breaching their rules.

Expulsion was probably too severe, but the fine should have been a fair bit more. Hearts fine could have been up to £100k(?) yet the get £2,500? Cop out.

 

Going directly to arbitration in accordance with the SFA articles still "forces" anyone who wants to oppose the action to spend money.  Hearts lost, so we rightly cover the costs.

The idea that the SFA were going to impose a massive fine or expulsion *after an explicit warning from a judge that it was likely to be unlawful* is just as wild as some of the stuff Hearts fans have come up with this summer. At least you can act like it had nothing to do with that and was about feeling sorry for us or something.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Hearts should arrange to pay 38 instalments of £65.80 and not bother paying the last 8

[Cowden Cowboy]

2 hours ago, steelmen said:

 

The legal fees don’t come into it, they knew the risks when they raised the case.

Now we have a precedent that you can take the spfl to court, force other clubs to spend money defending themselves and all the SFA will do is give you a tiny wee flick on the wrist for breaching their rules.

Expulsion was probably too severe, but the fine should have been a fair bit more. Hearts fine could have been up to £100k(?) yet the get £2,500? Cop out.

 

That is in the £500 to £5000 range set out in the rules and is more or less what would have been expected

[Arch Stanton]

I recall St. Mirren being fined over a rule breach in 2006.

IIRC the rule changed at the start of the season so that the Scottish Cup required 3 outfield players  in the starting 11 who were U21 and the club should have known this. However when they turned up for the away game v Spartans the Ref  supplied Gus MacPherson with the team form from the previous season which followed the old rule of 3 U21s in the matchday squad.

Again, rather than just fill in that form, they should have gone to the Ref's room and sought clarification however the team was juggled and 2 outfield U21 players started with 2 more on the bench. Spartans manager Mikey Lawson did some digging and then cliped to the SFA, clearly hoping Saints would be expelled.

The fine for this "heinous" crime of filling in the form supplied by the SFA? £25k!!!!!

It was eventually reduced to £12.5k on appeal but it was a ridiculously excessive fine at the time.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Arch Stanton

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

On 02/08/2020 at 05:29, Aim Here said:

At least the boycotters have 11 more weeks to work out who the guid guys and who the wanks are.

Think we worked that out a long time ago.  It's you lot that are slowly catching on. Even the SFA can't bring themselves to punish us.

We have actual cases of COVID to footballers  in a city that is being locked down due to an outbreak, and the games can still be played in that city within the 14 day isolation period and the affected club can still travel beyond the 5 mile limit everyone else is being restricted to because - wow look everyone - football clubs in Scotland are operating in a "sporting bubble". But since joining this forum I've been told the gov doesn't care about football, and football isn't special. The SPFL said their hands were tied. No bubble was possible.

That bubble could very easily have been set up to finish fixtures from say start July and delay the start of the next season until mid Sept as England have done.  In fact had they done that, the current spike would have happened during the pre-season for the next season.

That Doncaster though. So competent.

Edited August 6, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[Dunning1874]

7 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

I recall St. Mirren being fined over a rule breach in 2006.

IIRC the rule changed at the start of the season so that the Scottish Cup required 3 outfield players  in the starting 11 who were U21 and the club should have known this. However when they turned up for the away game v Spartans the Ref  supplied Gus MacPherson with the team form from the previous season which followed the old rule of 3 U21s in the matchday squad.

Again, rather than just fill in that form, they should have gone to the Ref's room and sought clarification however the team was juggled and 2 outfield U21 players started with 2 more on the bench. Spartans manager Mikey Lawson did some digging and then cliped to the SFA, clearly hoping Saints would be expelled.

The fine for this "heinous" crime of filling in the form supplied by the SFA? £25k!!!!!

It was eventually reduced to £12.5k on appeal but it was a ridiculously excessive fine at the time.

Not quite - the rule was that you had to have two outfield under-21s in the matchdays squad. You did have two under-21s but one them was a goalkeeper.

[Fife Saint]

We were fined 18k EURO in 2014 for a punter turning up to a UEFA match and waving a Palestine flag. Unsurprisingly, the palestine flag hasn't been seen since.

[Fife Saint]

Think we worked that out a long time ago.  It's you lot that are slowly catching on. Even the SFA can't bring themselves to punish us.
We have actual cases of COVID to footballers  in a city that is being locked down due to an outbreak, and the games can still be played in that city within the 14 day isolation period and the affected club can still travel beyond the 5 mile limit everyone else is being restricted to because - wow look everyone - football clubs in Scotland are operating in a "sporting bubble". But since joining this forum I've been told the gov doesn't care about football, and football isn't special. The SPFL said their hands were tied. No bubble was possible.
That bubble could very easily have been set up to finish fixtures from say start July and delay the start of the next season until mid Sept as England have done.  In fact had they done that, the current spike would have happened during the pre-season for the next season.
That Doncaster though. So competent.

Let it go mate.