ribzanelli Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Just now, Mr Positive, sometimes. said: 6/8 split. They'd play each other twice post split as well. The idea was shite though. Well he did state that the bottom 7 play 4 additional games, not sure how we get there by playing other teams twice! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szamo's_Ammo Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 On 26/09/2017 at 12:56, BACKOFTHENET said: Reveal hidden contents British Football League Champions - Alternative History 1889 - 2017 I took a few hours to do this. But I think it was worth it. This is looking at if the Scottish, English, Welsh, and Northern Irish Leagues did not exist, and instead the British League had started in 1889 with Scottish, Welsh, English and Irish (then Northern Irish after Irish independence) sides were allowed to join. I do not support the Scottish, English, Welsh, and Northern Irish Leagues merging. I am an Aberdeen, and Inverness fan. We would do nothing in a modern day British League system nowadays. Plus Scotland would lose a major way of showing it’s identity to the rest of the world. But I have done this list to decide who would have been British champions in an age where the Scottish and English leagues merged. I have also added a bit of couner history with the fact that if Northern Ireland has been part of a British League, the Northern Irish teams would have been bigger. Plus I have added an imaginary team called Dublin Irish Celtic United, to represent Republic of Ireland football before independence. Plus I have taken into account, how much bigger sides from Scotland and Northern Ireland would be with British Premiership TV money. Year Champions - 1889 Preston North End. 1890 Preston North End. 1891 Everton 1892 Sunderland 1893 Sunderland 1894 Aston Villa 1895 Sunderland 1896 Aston Villa 1897 Aston Villa 1898 Glasgow Celtic 1899 Aston Villa 1900 Aston Villa 1901 Liverpool 1902 Sunderland 1903 Hibernian 1904 The Wednesday 1905 Newcastle United 1906 Liverpool 1907 Glasgow Celtic 1908 Manchester United 1909 Newcastle United 1910 Glasgow Celtic 1911 Manchester United 1912 Blackburn Rovers 1913 Sunderland 1914 Dublin Irish United 1915 Dublin Irish United 1916 Glasgow Celtic 1917 Glasgow Celtic 1918 Glasgow Rangers 1919 Glasgow Celtic 1920 Glasgow Rangers 1921 Glasgow Rangers 1922 Liverpool 1923 Glasgow Rangers 1924 Cardiff City 1925 Glasgow Rangers 1926 Huddersfield Town 1927 Newcastle United 1928 Glasgow Rangers 1929 Sheffield Wednesday 1930 Sheffield Wednesday 1931 Arsenal 1932 Motherwell 1933 Glasgow Rangers 1934 Belfast Celtic 1935 Arsenal 1936 Glasgow Celtic 1937 Manchester City 1938 Arsenal 1939 Everton 1940 - 46 WW2 (WW2 was 1939 - 45, but season could no start until 1946.) 1947 Liverpool 1948 Arsenal 1949 Portsmouth 1950 Hibernian 1951 Hibernian 1952 Manchester United 1953 Arsenal 1954 Wolverhampton Wanderers 1955 Aberdeen 1956 Manchester United 1957 Manchester United 1958 Heart of Midlothian 1959 Wolverhampton Wanderers 1960 Burnley 1961 Tottenham Hotspur 1962 Ipswich Town 1963 Everton 1964 Liverpool 1965 Manchester United 1966 Glasgow Celtic 1967 Glasgow Celtic 1968 Manchester City 1969 Leeds United 1970 Glasgow Celtic 1971 Glasgow Celtic 1972 Derby County 1973 Liverpool 1974 Linfield 1975 Derby County 1976 Liverpool 1977 Liverpool 1978 Nottingham Forest 1979 Liverpool 1980 Liverpool 1981 Aston Villa 1982 Liverpool 1983 Dundee United 1984 Aberdeen 1985 Aberdeen 1986 Liverpool 1987 Glasgow Rangers 1988 Liverpool 1989 Glasgow Rangers 1990 Glasgow Rangers 1991 Glasgow Rangers 1992 Glasgow Rangers 1993 Glasgow Rangers 1994 Manchester United 1995 Blackburn Rovers 1996 Manchester United 1997 Manchester United 1998 Linfield 1999 Manchester United 2000 Belfast Celtic 2001 Manchester United 2002 Arsenal 2003 Manchester United 2004 Arsenal 2005 Chelsea 2006 Chelsea 2007 Manchester United 2008 Glasgow Celtic 2009 Manchester United 2010 Chelsea 2011 Glasgow Rangers 2012 Manchester City 2013 Manchester United 2014 Manchester City 2015 Chelsea 2016 Glasgow Celtic 2017 Glasgow Celtic Top teams in League. All time list of record British League title winners. 1. Manchester United have 15 titles. 2. Glasgow Celtic have 14 titles. 2. Glasgow Rangers have 14 titles. 4. Liverpool have 13 titles. 5. Arsenal have 7 titles. 6. Aston Villa have 6 titles. 7. Sunderland have 5 titles 8. Chelsea have 4 titles. 8. Manchester City have 4 titles. 10. Everton have 3 titles. 10. Aberdeen have 3 titles. 10. Sheffield Wednesday have 3 titles. 10. Hibernian have 3 titles. IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 "I took a few hours to do this" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Gordon Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Szamo's_Ammo said: IMO. I stopped reading after the guy said he was an Aberdeen & Inverness fan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szamo's_Ammo Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, Golden Gordon said: I stopped reading after the guy said he was an Aberdeen & Inverness fan. You missed the best part then. On 26/09/2017 at 12:56, BACKOFTHENET said: British Football League Champions - Alternative History 1889 - 2017 I took a few hours to do this. But I think it was worth it. 1998 Linfield 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 On a side note to that list, is it just me that cringes a bit when people use "Glasgow Celtic" and "Glasgow Rangers", it's not like we say "Liverpool Everton", "London Arsenal" or "Belfast Linfield". We know who these teams are, there is no need for the prefix. In fact the only time you ever need clarification is when some Southerner gets QPR and Rangers mixed up, but I know of nobody that calls QPR just Rangers. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Gordon Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Szamo's_Ammo said: You missed the best part then. Dublin Irish United, Belfast Celtic??, The Wednesday, the Harlem Globetrotters? What even is that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ric said: On a side note to that list, is it just me that cringes a bit when people use "Glasgow Celtic" and "Glasgow Rangers", it's not like we say "Liverpool Everton", "London Arsenal" or "Belfast Linfield". We know who these teams are, there is no need for the prefix. In fact the only time you ever need clarification is when some Southerner gets QPR and Rangers mixed up, but I know of nobody that calls QPR just Rangers. Usually used by thicko OF pundits who want to glorify them as some mythical entities. See also anyone who repeatedly says 'Heart of Midlothian'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resk Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 On a side note to that list, is it just me that cringes a bit when people use "Glasgow Celtic" and "Glasgow Rangers", it's not like we say "Liverpool Everton", "London Arsenal" or "Belfast Linfield". We know who these teams are, there is no need for the prefix. In fact the only time you ever need clarification is when some Southerner gets QPR and Rangers mixed up, but I know of nobody that calls QPR just Rangers.Aye, its a minter. Although acceptable in the "We hate Glasgow Rangers, we hate Celtic too.... " song purely because it scans properly. You don't hear said song much these days. Maybe it'll re-emerge now the Arabs are back in the top league? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Well lets your ideas people. We could go back to the old system of two leagues of 16 but what would you do with teams who have zero to play for. I mean if you have nothing to play for its simply boring.We could just leave it as it is, only fans of a team concerned at not being promoted would be proposing reconstruction weeks before their season even begins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aim Here Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, resk said: Aye, its a minter. Although acceptable in the "We hate Glasgow Rangers, we hate Celtic too.... " song purely because it scans properly. You don't hear said song much these days. Maybe it'll re-emerge now the Arabs are back in the top league? The song is still pretty common at Hibs games, as well as the more succinct "Glasgow Rangers - You let your club die". Edited August 4, 2020 by Aim Here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu2910 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Any statistical experts fancy explaining to me why a bigger league creates more meaningless games? Surely the number of meaningless games depends entirely on the number of games played and therefore the total points available?It would just mean that the meaningless games shifted to being say Dundee, Inverness, Hamilton and St Mirren in the middle of a 20 team league, instead of St Johnstone, Hibs, Arbroath and Dunfermline in the middle of their smaller leagues.Fair enough Celtic are less likely to drop points against QOS than St Mirren, so the gap from top to bottom would likely be a bit bigger. By the same logic though, you’d expect Aberdeen to put up more of a challenge for the title with nearly half of their games now being against current championship sides. The OF generally demolish everyone anyway but you’d at least expect a closer challenge. Playing each other 4 times is one of the biggest reasons (that can change) that they dominate the league. You’re much more likely to see a smaller club cause an upset when they only need 2 good results instead of 4. You see it in the cup, how often does a smaller team play well and earn a replay only to be thrashed the next time? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 38 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Usually used by thicko OF pundits who want to glorify them as some mythical entities. See also anyone who repeatedly says 'Heart of Midlothian'. Its amusing in some contexts 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 minute ago, stu2910 said: Any statistical experts fancy explaining to me why a bigger league creates more meaningless games? Surely the number of meaningless games depends entirely on the number of games played and therefore the total points available? It would just mean that the meaningless games shifted to being say Dundee, Inverness, Hamilton and St Mirren in the middle of a 20 team league, instead of St Johnstone, Hibs, Arbroath and Dunfermline in the middle of their smaller leagues. Fair enough Celtic are less likely to drop points against QOS than St Mirren, so the gap from top to bottom would likely be a bit bigger. By the same logic though, you’d expect Aberdeen to put up more of a challenge for the title with nearly half of their games now being against current championship sides. The OF generally demolish everyone anyway but you’d at least expect a closer challenge. Playing each other 4 times is one of the biggest reasons (that can change) that they dominate the league. You’re much more likely to see a smaller club cause an upset when they only need 2 good results instead of 4. You see it in the cup, how often does a smaller team play well and earn a replay only to be thrashed the next time? The point is that in a bigger league there are fewer meaningful positions. In the current set-up, the meaningful positions are 1-5 and 11-12 in the Premiership, 1-4 and 9-10 in the Championship and League 1 and 1-4 and 10 in League 2. That gives you a total of 24 out of the 42 places in the SPFL which count for something, which means the vast majority of clubs have something to play for until very close to the end of the season (with the split in the Premiership also contributing to this). If you instead had, say, a 20 team top flight and a 22 team second tier, say with 3 down from each division and an English style play-off system below, you'd have the meaningful positions being 1-5 and 18-20 in the Premiership and 1-6 and 18-20 in the Championship. That would only be 17 places across the SPFL which count for something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu2910 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 The point is that in a bigger league there are fewer meaningful positions. In the current set-up, the meaningful positions are 1-5 and 11-12 in the Premiership, 1-4 and 9-10 in the Championship and League 1 and 1-4 and 10 in League 2. That gives you a total of 24 out of the 42 places in the SPFL which count for something, which means the vast majority of clubs have something to play for until very close to the end of the season (with the split in the Premiership also contributing to this). If you instead had, say, a 20 team top flight and a 22 team second tier, say with 3 down from each division and an English style play-off system below, you'd have the meaningful positions being 1-5 and 18-20 in the Premiership and 1-6 and 18-20 in the Championship. That would only be 17 places across the SPFL which count for something.Fair enough I suppose. Interesting that before the playoffs were introduced, there would have been next to no difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 I was previously of the view that Darren was a daftie, rather than a troll. This Celtic League stuff, to mirror what happens in rugby though? Nah, he's at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannadeechee Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, stu2910 said: Any statistical experts fancy explaining to me why a bigger league creates more meaningless games? Surely the number of meaningless games depends entirely on the number of games played and therefore the total points available? It would just mean that the meaningless games shifted to being say Dundee, Inverness, Hamilton and St Mirren in the middle of a 20 team league, instead of St Johnstone, Hibs, Arbroath and Dunfermline in the middle of their smaller leagues. Fair enough Celtic are less likely to drop points against QOS than St Mirren, so the gap from top to bottom would likely be a bit bigger. By the same logic though, you’d expect Aberdeen to put up more of a challenge for the title with nearly half of their games now being against current championship sides. The OF generally demolish everyone anyway but you’d at least expect a closer challenge. Playing each other 4 times is one of the biggest reasons (that can change) that they dominate the league. You’re much more likely to see a smaller club cause an upset when they only need 2 good results instead of 4. You see it in the cup, how often does a smaller team play well and earn a replay only to be thrashed the next time? See Scottish football before 1975. There were many, many meaningless games. Much like the English Premiership with teams playing out their games just for pride. It was for this reason the 75-76 season moved to a 10 team league. This was due to crowds falling due to the number of meaningless games. It was felt that 10 teams with 2 being relegated kept the excitement going as teams would always be within European contention or fighting relegation if not going for the title. It did that until the shared gates were stopped and the rest is history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Ric said: I know of nobody that calls QPR just Rangers. They were occasionally referred to that way in Steptoe and Son. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Can we stop having these recurring lectures about why the Scottish top flight changed to a ten team setup nearly fifty fucking years ago, as if it is in any way relevant to the (soon to be) three multi-entrant European competitions and widespread acceptance of end of season play-offs that would inform any new structure? You'd be as well telling us about how weans used to be sent up to clean the chimneys for all the relevance it has to the world in 2020. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Ric said: On a side note to that list, is it just me that cringes a bit when people use "Glasgow Celtic" and "Glasgow Rangers", it's not like we say "Liverpool Everton", "London Arsenal" or "Belfast Linfield". We know who these teams are, there is no need for the prefix. In fact the only time you ever need clarification is when some Southerner gets QPR and Rangers mixed up, but I know of nobody that calls QPR just Rangers. I'm quite proud to refer to my club as Edinburgh Hibernian. Scotland's only top tier club from the capital city. It's understandable that the idea of putting 'Paisley' in front of your club name would make you cringe though. The thought of it makes me cringe also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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