Bose Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said: Jambos seem to be very positive over on kickback. Just had a look and it appears they are counting Hearts goals. They can’t say what they are until the court finishes at 4pm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4mmy31 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 adjourned until 10am tomorrow morning..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardy Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 What an absolute farce this whole thing is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, C4mmy31 said: adjourned until 10am tomorrow morning..... This is just never-ending. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munoz Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, C4mmy31 said: adjourned until 10am tomorrow morning..... Lawyers will be pleased, a bit of overtime for them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Of_Kings Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Apparently they are celebrating because the Judge was made aware of the Dundee vote fiasco (why Hearts are celebrating that is beyond me as that pertains to Partick and not them as that vote didn't affect the Premiership) and the SPFL QC said yesterday they could remove Hearts and Partick's membership and that was something he had to consider in his judgement. They think the judge will side with them because of this!! They are clutching at straws here but that's nothing new!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Good to see Hearts spunking loads of legal dosh down the plug hole..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Hibee Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 5 hours ago, JTS98 said: This is one point that I do dispute. Teams don't really try to win every game. Teams rest players for games strategically, teams sit deep for the last 20 minutes to take a draw. Hearts made these calls like anyone else and then found that the calls they made were recontextualised by the season being shortened by over 20%. It sounds like a convincing argument, but it's actually more of an argument in Hearts' favour in terms of fairness. You made some reasonable points but I read 2 pages after this post and no-one called you on it, so I will. this argument is bollocks. This is the “we were waiting for the last 8 games strategy“. It might work but I also might get a chance to cop off with Monica Belluci - neither are very likely. In both cases past performance is a good indicator of future performance. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aim Here Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, King_Of_Kings said: SPFL QC said yesterday they could remove Hearts and Partick's membership and that was something he had to consider in his judgement. Might it work the other way to the way they assume? If the SFA can evict Hearts and Thistle entirely from the league for not going via arbitration, he might want to save them by punting it to the arbitration proceedings. If he keeps it in-house without a very good reason, there's more danger the SFA will hoof Hearts and Thistle out of Scottish fitba' entirely and the Court of Session judge can't do anything about that. The judge doesn't want to cause unnecessary damage to Scottish fitba' by his rulings. Edited July 2, 2020 by Aim Here 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 24 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said: Jambos seem to be very positive over on kickback. I had the opposite impression. One moment that stood out was the Judge interrupting the Hearts man when he was claiming the SFA rules could be ignored as they're not incorporated into the SPFL rule book. He asked him if it was true to say that Hearts, Thistle, United, Raith and Cove are all signed up members of the SFA. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 minute ago, HK Hibee said: You made some reasonable points but I read 2 pages after this post and no-one called you on it, so I will. this argument is bollocks. This is the “we were waiting for the last 8 games strategy“. It might work but I also might get a chance to cop off with Monica Belluci - neither are very likely. In both cases past performance is a good indicator of future performance. It's the case for every club every season. I'm not arguing that Hearts lost games on purpose, as some seem to be choosing to interpret it, merely that clubs make plans and strategize based on a 38-game season. Every club does it. Rests players, sees out games for draws, prioritizes. When you lop 20% of the season off, you recontextualize all those decisions after the fact. For that reason, calling the season early and saying it's legitimate is wrong. Also, that doesn't even touch on the fixtures not matching up. I've said dozens of times, it's not a legalistic argument. It's one to fairness and common sense. Form doesn't really come into it, since it's not a specific point about Hearts. It's simply true of all teams. See the post I was replying to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, King_Of_Kings said: Apparently they are celebrating because the Judge was made aware of the Dundee vote fiasco (why Hearts are celebrating that is beyond me as that pertains to Partick and not them as that vote didn't affect the Premiership) and the SPFL QC said yesterday they could remove Hearts and Partick's membership and that was something he had to consider in his judgement. They think the judge will side with them because of this!! They are clutching at straws here but that's nothing new!! The vote thing is weird. It showed Doncaster and the SPFL are incompetent fuckwits but legally it means nothing. The legal deadline was 28 days for clubs to vote yes. Any other deadline was advisory only. And the SPFL having rules to expel members from their private club is not extraordinary. Almost all members groups have the ability to expel or remove membership from members not upholding the rules of said club. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesM82 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Just now, JTS98 said: It's the case for every club every season. I'm not arguing that Hearts lost games on purpose, as some seem to be choosing to interpret it, merely that clubs make plans and strategize based on a 38-game season. Every club does it. Rests players, sees out games for draws, prioritizes. When you lop 20% of the season off, you recontextualize all those decisions after the fact. For that reason, calling the season early and saying it's legitimate is wrong. Also, that doesn't even touch on the fixtures not matching up. I've said dozens of times, it's not a legalistic argument. It's one to fairness and common sense. Form doesn't really come into it, since it's not a specific point about Hearts. It's simply true of all teams. See the post I was replying to. The most striking thing about Hearts last season is that they were relatively good against the bigger clubs (2 wins v Rangers, 2 wins v Hibs) and pish against the bottom six. That appears to have been due to "not trying" in the sense that the players were on high basic wages and weren't as motivated as they should have been (to win bonuses) against Accies, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 I've not been listening. Because it's boring. But it seems that the SPFL's QC accepts that Dundee's vote was indeed received at 4.48pm. Where does this leave the SPFL with their now infamous 5pm Statement on the day of The Vote? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Of_Kings Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Aim Here said: Might it work the other way to the way they assume? If the SFA can evict Hearts and Thistle entirely from the league for not going via arbitration, he might want to save them by punting it to the arbitration proceedings. If he keeps it in-house without a very good reason, there's more danger the SFA will hoof Hearts and Thistle out of Scottish fitba' entirely and the Court of Session judge can't do anything about that. The judge doesn't want to cause unnecessary damage to Scottish fitba' by his rulings. That was my thinking of it but they seem to think they are being bullied and the judge will take pity on them. One said "It's a threat and Clarky (Judge) doesn't like that!!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Why can't the SPFL just cancel their memberships right now before the judgment is made in the CoS ? That would get rid of any incertainty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 minute ago, JamesM82 said: The most striking thing about Hearts last season is that they were relatively good against the bigger clubs (2 wins v Rangers, 2 wins v Hibs) and pish against the bottom six. That appears to have been due to "not trying" in the sense that the players were on high basic wages and weren't as motivated as they should have been (to win bonuses) against Accies, etc. You're right about our record, however I think 'not trying' is very simplistic. I think we were just tactically better suited to games where you get to play football. Our side wasn't balanced enough for the more demanding games when teams don't let you play. Don't really see the relevance anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Why can't the SPFL just cancel their memberships right now before the judgment is made in the CoS ? That would get rid of any incertainty. Some people seem to be of the opinion that the judge viewed that possible outcome unfavourably and it may work in Hearts' favour. I don't know. But I suppose we'll see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 minute ago, JTS98 said: I've not been listening. Because it's boring. But it seems that the SPFL's QC accepts that Dundee's vote was indeed received at 4.48pm. Where does this leave the SPFL with their now infamous 5pm Statement on the day of The Vote? Same as before, it was diverted into a 3rd party controlled spam folder so at 5pm they didn't know it was there. All covered by the independent enquiry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aim Here Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Just now, JTS98 said: I've not been listening. Because it's boring. But it seems that the SPFL's QC accepts that Dundee's vote was indeed received at 4.48pm. Where does this leave the SPFL with their now infamous 5pm Statement on the day of The Vote? The Dundee vote affair is a red herring. It doesn't look to me to be a major part of the case for the petition, and if they're arguing over it, it's more likely to be whether Dundee is allowed to change their vote or whether it materially affects anything anyways. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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