League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[ribzanelli]

15 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Loss of away support from Celtic, Sevco, Hibs and Aberdeen, plus loss of home fans for games vs Hibs.

 

Cheers Captain Obvious! I get that supports generally decrease as you go down the leagues but I don’t see how you compensate it. The stands are still open and the seats are still there so relegation doesn’t actually in itself stop Hearts from selling out every week. Seems a bit of a grey area to be claiming for.

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, ribzanelli said:

Cheers Captain Obvious! I get that supports generally decrease as you go down the leagues but I don’t see how you compensate it. The stands are still open and the seats are still there so relegation doesn’t actually in itself stop Hearts from selling out every week. Seems a bit of a grey area to be claiming for.

But if the courts take Hearts view that they have been 'expelled' from the prem or 'placed' in the championship, then the compensation would be based on the lost benefits of being in the Premiership, of which attendances are clearly one. Presumably they can't/won't sell tickets at the same price as in the Championship either.

 

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Airdrie76 said:

Thankfully for Hearts sake Deans appears to only give his expert legal opinion to the jambo kickback site (via a third party) these days. The third party spectacularly called the reconstruction ‘vote’ wrong but continues to post messages (then apologies) for Deans. It’s a strange site, those who don’t stick to the narrative that the court case is a slam dunk are shouted down and/or accused of being Hibs supporters.

That letter he issued a couple of days before the 14-10-10-10 vote seemed well informed enough to put a few Chairmen's backs up and turn the vote more against than expected.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/leslie-deans-open-letter-spfl-reconstruction-2883991

[Miko’s Dive]

11 hours ago, DumbartonBud said:

My wife who has no interest in football has just asked if Hearts have considered going to Judge Rinder to get justice. 

She sounds a right catch. 

[Miko’s Dive]

13 minutes ago, ribzanelli said:

Cheers Captain Obvious! I get that supports generally decrease as you go down the leagues but I don’t see how you compensate it. The stands are still open and the seats are still there so relegation doesn’t actually in itself stop Hearts from selling out every week. Seems a bit of a grey area to be claiming for.

It’s based on the difference in income when we were promoted a few years back. Includes lost hospitality, ticket income, prize money etc

[Ric]

15 hours ago, Insaintee said:

That's ridiculus,  Hibs are not claiming for compensation for Hearts not being the SPFL  and losing the derby.  What if Celtic had been relegated. It's pure nonsense 

Oh, now, can you imagine the scenes if Hibs took them to court for getting relegated! If only that rumour could run in the papers for a few days, the seethe from JKB could power entire towns.

[Szamo's_Ammo]

14 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Leslie Deans made a boo boo. ©jkb

Think this is what he was apologising for, I'm a bit confused.

Respect, Leslie. 

And I'm a DU fan.

[Ric]

5 minutes ago, Miko’s Dive said:

It’s based on the difference in income when we were promoted a few years back. Includes lost hospitality, ticket income, prize money etc

How much of a brass a neck does successful businesswoman Ann Budge have to claim for consecutive seasons in the Championship? It's this sort of constant over reach that has seen her fail time and time again. With a genuinely successful businessperson in charge you lot wouldn't be going to court now, and we'd be looking at a reconstructed league.

 

12 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

That letter he issued a couple of days before the 14-10-10-10 vote seemed well informed enough to put a few Chairmen's backs up and turn the vote more against than expected.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/leslie-deans-open-letter-spfl-reconstruction-2883991

Absolutely, Dean's "open letter" was an incredible own goal. Not that it was well informed, because I'd suggest it wasn't overly so just the usual legalese conjecture, but because it lifted the lid on the craziness being entertained by the Seethelothians.

[Wilbur]

9 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

But if the courts take Hearts view that they have been 'expelled' from the prem or 'placed' in the championship, then the compensation would be based on the lost benefits of being in the Premiership, of which attendances are clearly one. Presumably they can't/won't sell tickets at the same price as in the Championship either.

 

If Covid-19 hadn't happened and the full 38 league game season had been concluded then, realistically, there were only 4 clubs involved in the fight to avoid relegation. So why should the top 8 clubs suffer any financial penalty because the club at the bottom got relegated ? One of the other 4 would be going down anyway. 

[Bazil85]

On 26/06/2020 at 21:26, wastecoatwilly said:

I can hear the beep beep beep back tracking on that point.the Raith fan will never answer the question.
I think it is obvious from your posts you don't rate Scottish football and you don't rate our national team it's a common trait for Scottish football fans.
You said there was no benefit to other clubs in Scotland yet you know there clearly is with the names of players I've provided.Whether they go on to represent the national team is neither here nor there.
It's an example of what can happen with players that don't even make the first team at Celtic.
Nobody is saying the colts will produce 11 Andy Robertson's but what it will do is give more kids the chance to find their level in the game.
Because you are blinded by the hype down south you don't see the individual quality we have in Scotland.
Last season we lost over 40 players to England why? because their shite! fecking wake up.
The talent is here we just need to try and keep them here or slow the process down.
Instead of players leaving to play at a higher level we close the gap.

There is no backtracking in the slightest. The point is on the mutually beneficial nature of the current loan market which we were not discussing, we were discussing colts which are not beneficial to all, they only benefit two clubs overall. 

It's also a completely accurate conclusion. Our national team have failed for almost a full generation with little sign of improvement, in fact there's signs we are still going backwards given where the players are being taken from for the current squad. The league is no different, just look at our collective performances in Europe over the last decade and the quality of our players. We can't even get a sponsor for crying out loud. Our "best ever" TV deal is miles behind almost any other football nation in Europe and our international TV deal which was considered the worst of the major European leagues turned out to not even be all that profitable for the distributor. It makes no sense to rate Scottish football highly when it factually isn't remotely a high level. You seem to confuse a will for Scottish football to be better with where we factually are. 

There is no benefit to other clubs in colts, I have not said the same for the current loan structure, is this a point you've misunderstood? 

I agree colts will do that, I have never said they wouldn't but it isn't required for that to happen. I also don't imagine it would make a big difference overall. Colts will also disenfranchise thousands of Scottish football fans, devalue our lower leagues and disadvantage many other Scottish teams in the transfer market. So because it is not needed for players to find their level and it has massive drawbacks, it's a non-starter. There is no appetite for colts, I know you want them to benefit Celtic but there are too many Scottish football fans of other clubs, that aren't naive enough not to strongly oppose this idea. As such it won't happen. It would be an own goal for other clubs to go against their fans. 

The quality down south is factually way higher than any player we have in Scotland. This is proven given any player that shows such talent at the top of our game, more often than not goes to a bang average EPL team or somewhere else in world football. There isn't a single Scottish based Scottish player good enough for the level we need to be at as a national team. I don't know how much more evidence you need of this, than the last 10 failed football tournament qualifiers. 

I don't understand your point about losing players to England, we lose players to England more often than not because it's a progression. St Mirren for example, one of our top 12 teams in the country regularly lose players to L1 and L2 English teams, players that we would rather keep and that would play first team football here. 

I would love to see us close the gap but that's a completely different issue. Scottish football has been going backwards largely because it isn't exciting, entertaining or attractive to fans in a connected modern world. Who wants to watch a competition where you know who the champions will be one of two teams? (one in the last nine years) Answer is, not all that many people. The very downfall of Scottish football is linked to the consolidation of power between Celtic and Rangers. Now you want a proposal to go through that will further consolidate that power, turn thousands more fans away from or game and you talk about bridging gaps? It would have the opposite effect. 

Colts is a red line for many Scottish football fans (including me) you can't support colts and support a better more attractive Scottish football product. They are conflicting views. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Bazil85

[MegaRichJambos]

Weegie media getting very desperate now. Glorious.

[Aim Here]

40 minutes ago, Miko’s Dive said:

It’s based on the difference in income when we were promoted a few years back. Includes lost hospitality, ticket income, prize money etc

Bollocks. You do know Hearts accounts are public information, don't you?

Hearts turnover in 2014-15 - their Championship winning season - was £6,982,000.

Turnover in 2015-16 - the first season in the Premiership post-relegation - was £9,967,000. That's a difference of £2,985,000.

Where's Budge expecting the other £5 million to come from? Is she including two-years worth of bung from James Anderson in the figure or something?

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Aim Here

[Ric]

3 minutes ago, MegaRichJambos said:

Weegie media getting very desperate now. Glorious.

Go on then, show your workings.

While the red tops job is to sell papers so will punt out any old shit to sound dramatic, it can't be anywhere near the rancid desperation being posted on JKB.

[Jacksgranda]

15 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Leslie Deans made a boo boo. ©jkb

Think this is what he was apologising for, I'm a bit confused.

 

 

Perhaps you could post my following comments. 
I understand there has been some adverse comment regarding my piece of earlier today. 
The information I was given , from a normally reliable source, stated that our petition named SPFL as respondents with intimation to four other clubs. DU , RR, CR and Stranraer.  I now accept that information was erroneous. Had I known that at the time, my comments of earlier today would have differed. I accept that I could have examined the petition in detail myself and apologise to anyone feeling misled by my comments. I can assure you that this was not my intention.   Perhaps age is catching up with me.! 

Whilst no one can categorically state the outcome of litigation,
I stand by my earlier comments on this aspect. 
I remain deeply concerned by the potential conflict of interest if the case is referred to the SFA. Additionally they will simply not have the expertise to deal with complex legal issues nor the ability to grant interdict.   The mark of any civilised society is free access to justice and there is no better forum than Scotland's supreme civil court. 
Leslie Deans

Did he forget to put in "shit"?

[Ric]

1 minute ago, MegaRichJambos said:

I've spent the last 3 weeks educating the inbred people on this forum.

I'd always thought Hearts and Celtic would come out of this as the strongest however the child abuse payouts will nullify Celtic's financial advantage. 

So where is this example of the "weegie media" getting desperate.

Got to say, classy introduction of child abuse into the subject. While clearly an issue worthy of debate, using it to score points in this manner is pretty low brow content.

[Coventry Saint]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

So where is this example of the "weegie media" getting desperate.

Got to say, classy introduction of child abuse into the subject. While clearly an issue worthy of debate, using it to score points in this manner is pretty low brow content.

Keith Jackson has written a Record column claiming Hearts could regret the legal action if they lose. I think that might be it. 

[Guest Flash]

11 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

Bollocks. You do know Hearts accounts are public information, don't you?

Hearts turnover in 2014-15 - their Championship winning season - was £6,982,000.

Turnover in 2015-16 - the first season in the Premiership post-relegation - was £9,967,000. That's a difference of £2,985,000.

Where's Budge expecting the other £5 million to come from? Is she including two-years worth of bung from James Anderson in the figure or something?

 

It might even be more realistic to compare their season in the Championship with their previous one in the Premiership. Their turnover in 2013/14 was £6.55m in the Premiership and, as you say, it was £6.98m the following season in the Championship. 

[Golden Gordon]

4 minutes ago, Ric said:

So where is this example of the "weegie media" getting desperate.

Got to say, classy introduction of child abuse into the subject. While clearly an issue worthy of debate, using it to score points in this manner is pretty low brow content.

Correct.

[MegaRichJambos]

7 minutes ago, Ric said:

So where is this example of the "weegie media" getting desperate.

Got to say, classy introduction of child abuse into the subject. While clearly an issue worthy of debate, using it to score points in this manner is pretty low brow content.

I'm merely stating that Celtic will lose tens of millions over the next months. 

If it was because they mismanaged finances or bought shite players I would mention that. 

But the reason they will lose tens of millions is down to the fact that children,in their care, were abused for decades and the club tried to cover it up.

If the league was finished, there would be only only story in Scottish football just now.

Edited June 29, 2020 by MegaRichJambos
HMFC

[Green Day]

6 minutes ago, MegaRichJambos said:

I've spent the last 3 weeks educating the inbred people on this forum. I'd always thought Hearts and Celtic would come out of this as the strongest however the child abuse payouts will nullify Celtic's financial advantage.  

Awful chat.

However I think you should hang around for a while, your inane stupidity won me the day on Saturday, so its not all bad................