League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[welshbairn]

26 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Hearts will change their mind and accept their lot after the SPFL's proposal for an expanded top flight was rejected by clubs. Two, Hearts will lose a legal action and will have no choice but to retreat.

 

26 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Is what's getting on your tits the fact that pretty much every word of that is right on the money?

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

 

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

I'd rather you didn't quote his words as mine. Some of our brain-dead correspondents will not notice the difference.

[The Real Saints]

As far as I'm concerned, every single club in the country has acted out of self-interest. Why wouldn't they? Ultimately, the majority of clubs have got their way. The minority who haven't got their way? Well, they are the ones who least deserve to get their way, taking into consideration the fact that they were rubbish throughout the season and lying at the bottom of their respective leagues. Unlucky. The pandemic was unexpected, of course, but them's the breaks. This is potentially a once-in-a-generation occurrence and some people just need to accept that and take it on the chin.

[Lebowski]

This is what I wonder too.
In years to come people may look at the number of other leagues around the continent who found solutions to player registration issues and got their seasons finished. Somebody will be relegated in Austria and there will be no court case and no risk of a hefty pay out. Likewise in Poland, Switzerland, Russia etc.
Would Sky really have torn the contract to shreds if asked to delay the start for a few weeks so the season could be finished when we got the all-clear to play? I don't see any motivation for them to do so. Did the SPFL ask them?

The motivation to do so is that they outbid BT by around 10m a season. Both haemorrhaged subscriptions at the start of lockdown when there was no football on. Giving Sky an opportunity to re negotiate would have been a spectacularly stupid decision. If it couldn't start due to government imposed restrictions at the start of August, then you've got a decent argument for not accepting a renegotiation. Not starting it in August because you've decided to play another 8 rounds of fixtures, plus play offs (which would be including sides who wouldn't be able to field a team) doesn't seem like it's quite as good an excuse.

Unless of course you think sky wouldn't care about potentially saving around 50m.

Remember, just to allow clubs to sell their own games for streaming with no involvement from Sky required Celtic and Rangers to fall into line with other clubs and allow 5-6 home fixtures to be shown by them.

[HeWhoWalksBehindTheRows]

7 hours ago, capt_oats said:

They definitely failed to win their last game amirite lads?

 

That goal! Get fucking doon hearts, fancy our chances!

[Guest JTS98]

28 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

The motivation to do so is that they outbid BT by around 10m a season. Both haemorrhaged subscriptions at the start of lockdown when there was no football on. Giving Sky an opportunity to re negotiate would have been a spectacularly stupid decision. If it couldn't start due to government imposed restrictions at the start of August, then you've got a decent argument for not accepting a renegotiation. Not starting it in August because you've decided to play another 8 rounds of fixtures, plus play offs (which would be including sides who wouldn't be able to field a team) doesn't seem like it's quite as good an excuse.

Unless of course you think sky wouldn't care about potentially saving around 50m.

Remember, just to allow clubs to sell their own games for streaming with no involvement from Sky required Celtic and Rangers to fall into line with other clubs and allow 5-6 home fixtures to be shown by them.

None of that answers the question of whether they ever asked Sky. We have no evidence that they did.

It also ignores the fact that Sky's saving on renegotiation would be piddling compared with their general sports spend, and possibly not worth the bad PR. They wouldn't suddenly get it for free. Considering we're only really looking at changing a few months of a five-year deal, I don't believe the hype that this would have been some kind of apocalypse. Worse than court battle? I'm not sure.

At a time when they are trying to attract subscribers back, they're unlikely to go on a campaign of bad PR. More likely to present as a friend of sport.

Edited June 17, 2020 by JTS98

[HeWhoWalksBehindTheRows]

6 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

This Roy McGregor Brown guy's posting style actually makes me feel a bit nauseous.

It's like trying to read whilst flying in turbulence.

 

Carry on sick bags.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

6 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Would the BBC really sue Scottish football ? It would be an absolutely terrible look for them.

Covid-19 has affected the BBC, could the public demand a partial refund of the TV licence due to restricted output?

I don't think so.

[Dons_1988]

5 hours ago, JTS98 said:

Is what's getting on your tits the fact that pretty much every word of that is right on the money?

Other than it being impossible not to feel sorry for Partick, it really is not.

Another long winded way of shouting 'it's not fair!'. The Ross County argument is entirely arbitrary and irrelevant. 

Also irrelevant is this notion that clubs in Hearts position would try and save themselves too.  Whilst that's probably true it doesn't make the argument for reconstruction anymore compelling. It's like giving an opinion on a refereeing decision as a neutral and someone saying to me 'you'd be screaming for it if it was Aberdeen!!'. Well yes, in circumstances where my objectivity was significantly impaired, I might be, doesn't make it right.

He also keeps ploughing on with sympathy from clubs = obligation to vote for any sort of change to save Hearts/Partick/Stranraer. It doesn't.

And topped off with a condescending wee 'maybe you're just a bit misogynistic eh?'.

He's chosen a very odd hill to die on.

[Insaintee]

9 hours ago, Mr. X said:

I'm sure the Hibbys will be quick to correct you there.  

 

Looks like you failed to win your last few games to me. 

[cmontheloknow]

Good morning Jambos!

 

[TheScarf]

Lexi Collector imo 

[Staggie52]

7 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

We are a couple of weeks behind  England. We could have been playing in July and August. Then straight into next season. The players can't need a break - they've been scratching their arses for the last 3 months.

I take it you’re deliberately ignoring the fact that the Scottish Government took the decision not to allow football to be played in July? Playing in August is still technically not permitted although they expect to confirm a change to that policy if the situation improves. Full training is still not permissible. Still, if it don’t fit the agenda....

[Guest JTS98]

35 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Other than it being impossible not to feel sorry for Partick, it really is not.

Another long winded way of shouting 'it's not fair!'. The Ross County argument is entirely arbitrary and irrelevant. 

Also irrelevant is this notion that clubs in Hearts position would try and save themselves too.  Whilst that's probably true it doesn't make the argument for reconstruction anymore compelling. It's like giving an opinion on a refereeing decision as a neutral and someone saying to me 'you'd be screaming for it if it was Aberdeen!!'. Well yes, in circumstances where my objectivity was significantly impaired, I might be, doesn't make it right.

He also keeps ploughing on with sympathy from clubs = obligation to vote for any sort of change to save Hearts/Partick/Stranraer. It doesn't.

And topped off with a condescending wee 'maybe you're just a bit misogynistic eh?'.

He's chosen a very odd hill to die on.

I don't think misogyny is the driving force in this, but I think it's accurate that some of the ire towards Budge is loaded that way. You see it on this site all the time too.

The County argument is simply a reaction to MacGregor's nonsense from last week.

It's your view that unfairness doesn't make an argument for reconstruction compelling. I disagree with you. So does Tom English. I think it's fundamentally wrong to leave a small number of clubs carrying the can while the others, as English says, pull the ladder up and say 'I'm alright, Jack'. I think that's wrong.

The point about tribalism is very obvious, but it runs through the whole conversation. All this 'get doon with dignity' nonsense we see on here and even hear from some clubs is absolute mince and should be called out as such. Nobody would behave like that, so the criticism Hearts have been taking for this is galling pish, quite frankly.

"We all want you to behave in a way that we wouldn't behave ourselves, while insisting that we would behave that way".

Imagine hearing this rubbish day in, day out? It grates.

Edited June 17, 2020 by JTS98

[Billy Jean King]

They are stalling on (£150k?) refunds for 2019-20 season tickets until they get an insurance pay out confirmed. Now they have suspended sales of season ticket sales for next season. The 2019 Accounts showed net liabilities of £2.58m. What could it all mean, I wonder? Maybe one of these jolly Dee boys can help explain.

f**k me, diets no more, you guys have now gone full blown H*n.

[AberdeenHibee]

9 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I don't think misogyny is the driving force in this, but I think it's accurate that some of the ire towards Budge is loaded that way. You see it on this site all the time too.

The County argument is simply a reaction to MacGregor's nonsense from last week.

It's your view that unfairness doesn't make an argument for reconstruction compelling. I disagree with you. So does Tom English. I think it's fundamentally wrong to leave a small number of clubs carrying the can while the others, as English says, pull the ladder up and say 'I'm alright, Jack'. I think that's wrong.

The point about tribalism is very obvious, but it runs through the whole conversation. All this 'get doon with dignity' nonsense we see on here and even hear from some clubs is absolute mince and should be called out as such. Nobody would behave like that, so the criticism Hearts have been taking for this is galling pish, quite frankly.

"We all want you to behave in a way that we wouldn't behave ourselves, while insisting that we would behave that way".

So by your logic, if Hearts had finished say 11th, Ann Budge and every single one of your supporters would be saying "We will fight tooth and nail to reconstruct the leagues to save St Mirren using bribery/emotional blackmail/aggressive smear campaigns purely because it is the good thing to do".

Good one.  The worst part of all of this is Hearts fans insisting they wouldn't be acting in self-interest if they hadn't finished 12th - you are actually one of the very few clubs who universally insist you aren't, which is incredibly ironic. 

Down you go. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by AberdeenHibee

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, AberdeenHibee said:

So, by your logic, every Hearts fan is thinking "If we weren't in 12th place/bottom, we would be fighting tooth and nail to reconstruct the leagues to save St Mirren or Hamilton using bribery/emotional blackmail/aggressive smear campaigns as we have been".

Good one.  

Down you go. 

No. I don't think you've grasped my post at all.

I'm saying that St Mirren, Hamilton, Hibs, Aberdeen, whoever, would be acting exactly as we are in our position.

You've got it the wrong way round.

[Doctor Manhattan]

6 hours ago, JTS98 said:

Is what's getting on your tits the fact that pretty much every word of that is right on the money?

Proof, I suppose, that confirmation bias cuts both ways.

I could understand it if Tom was a Hearts fan, delivering an emotive opinion piece independent of his furious sucking on the licence-payers teat. As @Dons_1988 said, it seems like  a strange hill to die on.

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Doctor Manhattan said:

Proof, I suppose, that confirmation bias cuts both ways.

I could understand it if Tom was a Hearts fan, delivering an emotive opinion piece independent of his furious sucking on the licence-payers teat. As @Dons_1988 said, it seems like  a strange hill to die on.

It only seems that way because he's swimming against the tide. It always seems that way when people are swimming against the tide.

This thread is close to an echo chamber of people bafflingly throwing their lot in with Donald Finldlay's performance, for example, where he seemed unsure of what exactly he'd voted against, or where the Elgin chairman on Sportsound can be lauded as a good guy for saying he would vote against lower league clubs getting more money, while Kickback is an echo chamber going the other way.

There's nothing really to do about that. People who dislike Hearts will stay on that side of the fence. That's fitba.

[Dons_1988]

19 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I don't think misogyny is the driving force in this, but I think it's accurate that some of the ire towards Budge is loaded that way. You see it on this site all the time too.

The County argument is simply a reaction to MacGregor's nonsense from last week.

It's your view that unfairness doesn't make an argument for reconstruction compelling. I disagree with you. So does Tom English. I think it's fundamentally wrong to leave a small number of clubs carrying the can while the others, as English says, pull the ladder up and say 'I'm alright, Jack'. I think that's wrong.

The point about tribalism is very obvious, but it runs through the whole conversation. All this 'get doon with dignity' nonsense we see on here and even hear from some clubs is absolute mince and should be called out as such. Nobody would behave like that, so the criticism Hearts have been taking for this is galling pish, quite frankly.

"We all want you to behave in a way that we wouldn't behave ourselves, while insisting that we would behave that way".

Imagine hearing this rubbish day in, day out? It grates.

Ignore the noise around Ross County, tribalism on here, misogyny or whatever, because it's all just noise and doesn't really interest me. I've never criticised Hearts for trying to fight their corner or enact a solution. I have, however, always said reconstruction was never going to happen.

It's a very simplistic view to say if you have sympathy for Hearts you should just pass reconstruction. I said weeks ago on here that we'd argue and debate this over an extended period and end up with nothing to show for it.

Is what's happening to Hearts & others SO unfair that we should push through permanent reconstruction framed purely to solve a short term problem? In my view, no.

Restructuring the leagues should be a thorough process that assesses the long term benefit to the entire game. Finance, competitiveness, youth development, contribution to the national side, fan interest, TV interest, Sponsorship all the rest of it. It's not an easy thing to do.

The only way reconstruction to save Hearts works is temporary, and plenty clubs couldn't entertain that, and why would they? No one can criticise them for not supporting that either.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Dons_1988