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League Reconstruction 20/21 season


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14 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

It is complete and utter bollocks. Anyone who engages their brain for five seconds can see that it will do nothing positive for the development of young players.

Correct.

The only thing this does is increase the probability that the rare genuine talents we do develop will belong to one of the OF. These guys will develop with or without colts.

It's a power grab to hoover up the best young players in Scotland and increase their attractiveness to youngsters in England and abroad too.

Everything else in the proposal is essentially just a bribe to make it happen.

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10 hours ago, Aylo vanal said:

Cove would go into the third tier of Scottish football, same as they will without reconstruction so how are they worse off? 

Regardless of it being the third tier, Cove would still be in the bottom tier. If they have a shocking season they could be back in the Highland League at the end of it.

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8 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

The “nobody should be worse off” argument was for 14-10-10-10 that was unsurprisingly heavily favoured by Hearts, Thistle, Inverness and probably the likes of Dundee United

 

14-14-14 on the other hand was insisted on by league 2 clubs

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52439324

 

It’s not unreasonable to say that it leaves 4 teams worse off as they move from 3rd league of 4 to 3rd league of 3 but it would also benefit 6 teams who move from the 3rd league of 4 to 2nd of 4 so it could get 60% support and hence be notionally “democratic”.

 

The 4th tier get promotions all round. Shut the trap door for a summer and get bigger fixtures so If you look at the bottom two divisions as a whole that could rise to 80%.

 

 

The argument has always been that “no team should be worse off”, but that is impossible in a three league system.

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19 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Correct.

The only thing this does is increase the probability that the rare genuine talents we do develop will belong to one of the OF. These guys will develop with or without colts.

It's a power grab to hoover up the best young players in Scotland and increase their attractiveness to youngsters in England and abroad too.

Everything else in the proposal is essentially just a bribe to make it happen.

I think that's the biggest part of it. Rangers and Celtic obviously can't compete with top English clubs now for ready made players, but they also don't normally risk chucking untested players straight into their first teams in case they muck up their chances of winning the league / progressing in Europe. So the Colts team would be a useful staging post for 6-12 months while these players settle in, but it doesn't necessarily do anything to aid the development of Scottish players.

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Also there is no reason this should be exclusively Rangers and Celtic getting the opportunity to field Colt teams, it’s another nail in the ‘We really despise each other’ coffin when they actively work together on so much... Edit - I’m aware they are the only teams with the finances to be able to do it, but the invitation should still be there.


The invite is there but we all need to start in the lowland/highland league. We are not worthy of a place in the senior leagues.

We should know our place and accept the big boys offer all for the Blue pound( can’t say green pound as it’s only ‘understood’ they back it)
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3 minutes ago, steelmen said:

 


The invite is there but we all need to start in the lowland/highland league. We are not worthy of a place in the senior leagues.

We should know our place and accept the big boys offer all for the Blue pound( can’t say green pound as it’s only ‘understood’ they back it)

 

Doesnt the 'invite' also involve an upfront fee of £125k?

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A proposal to further tighten the Old Firm's grip on our game in exchange for saving Hearts from their deserved fate.  This has to be the worst deal of all time.  I expect this to be laughed out the room if it ever limps to a vote.  

Ann Budge showing she is willing to wreck our game in exchange for 1 season of probably still being in and around the relegation zone of the SPFL.  I suspect all of the good guys will absolutely smash this apart and that will be the end of it. 

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From the point of view of St Mirren, and other similar clubs on the 'footprint' of Rangers and Celtic, this HAS to get in the sea.

I'm not saying it happens all the time, but we have picked up occasional gems that have been discarded by the ugly sisters. McLean and Morgan are the obvious examples, though there are others. We've also had some successful loans from them, too. 

If the colts teams were operating at league level, that source would dry up. What's more, it'd be harder to attract young players to our squad because they might see the colts route as a 'better' chance to progress, by remaining within the setup at those clubs.

I'm not saying any other club should care about where we get our players from, but this will hopefully be reason enough for Saints to vote against it, before you even consider the multitude of other reasons.

Edited by Coventry Saint
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22 hours ago, gannonball said:

We also had Marshall, Jamie Smith,  Mcmanus, Beattie, Mcgeady*, Kennedy.

To say we rarely develop players is wrong frankly. We could pretty much put out a team of internationals in past 20 years.

Even the players we ‘buy’ we have developed them to levels that they almost certainly wouldn’t have made to. An recent example being Ajer signed as a 17 year old and Changing his position.

*I know he was at QP for a bit but he came to us when he was 13/14

Based to a large degree on OF players being picked for the national team based on hype rather than form/talent, I suppose it all depends where your coming from but I doubt you'll find many supporters of diddy clubs who disagree with me.

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11 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

From the point of view of St Mirren, and other similar clubs on the 'footprint' of Rangers and Celtic, this HAS to get in the sea.

I'm not saying it happens all the time, but we have picked up occasional gems that have been discarded by the ugly sisters. McLean and Morgan are the obvious examples, though there are others. We've also had some successful loans from them, too. 

If the colts teams existed and were operating at league level, that source would dry up. What's more, it'd be harder to attract young players to our squad because they might see the colts route as a 'better' chance to progress, by remaining within the setup at those clubs.

I'm not saying any other club should care about where we get our players from, but this will hopefully be reason enough for Saints to cite against it, before you even consider the multitude of other reasons.

Hearts are supporting the Rangers plan for obvious reasons, but I wonder if they would have been able to sign Aaron Hickey if Celtic had put him into their colts team instead of binning him at 16?

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1 minute ago, JamesM82 said:

Hearts are supporting the Rangers plan for obvious reasons, but I wonder if they would have been able to sign Aaron Hickey if Celtic had put him into their colts team instead of binning him at 16?

Yeah, precisely that. There will be countless other examples.

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12 minutes ago, btb said:

Based to a large degree on OF players being picked for the national team based on hype rather than form/talent, I suppose it all depends where your coming from but I doubt you'll find many supporters of diddy clubs who disagree with me.

Players who play in the bigger and better sides generally get picked ahead of others for their national team isn’t a concept exclusive to Scottish football ffs

Edited by gannonball
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2 minutes ago, gannonball said:

Players who play in the bigger and better sides generally get picked ahead of others for their national team isn’t a concept exclusive to Scottish football ffs

That doesn't make it an invalid argument ffs.

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Just now, btb said:

That doesn't make it an invalid argument ffs.

To be fair, your argument relates more to Scottish players and even then I can't think of too many recent examples there.

Ian Black whilst in the lower leagues with Rangers is clearly still the poster boy of this argument though.

Celtic in particular in recent times have developed plenty of players, it's a little silly to say otherwise.

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5 minutes ago, btb said:

That doesn't make it an invalid argument ffs.

It kind of does in a way, if a player is getting a game ahead of higher calibre players, playing under more pressure and playing at a higher level then theres every chance he is going to be picked ahead of   the other guy looking to be picked for his national side.

Edited by gannonball
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I do like the way Rangers and Celtic enter at Tier 3 and any other clubs at HL/LL totally ignoring the EOS / WOS / SOS clubs in the pyramid. Colt and reserve teams need to get into the sea at every level including Stranraer and Stirling University. The pyramid should be one club, one team. Reserve clubs should play in a reserve league. If clubs are so desperate for a development team playing competitive football then have a feeder team in another country like Man Utd did in Belgium then there’s no conflict of interest or simply continue to loan players to other clubs.

I’ll be furious if the Raith board back this absolute insult of a deal to pander to the Ugly Sisters for 30 pieces of silver. Hopefully fans groups around the country follow Dumbarton’s lead with strong statements to the clubs.

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25 minutes ago, gannonball said:

It kind of does in a way, if a player is getting a game ahead of higher calibre players, playing under more pressure and playing at a higher level then theres every chance he is going to be picked ahead of   the other guy looking to be picked for his national side.

Like I said to a degree this is a matter of opinion but I still don't reckon selection for the national team isn't a level playing field - what did Lewis Morgan do to deserve his call-up beyond moving a dozen miles down the road?

 

Edited by btb
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The OF can play their 'colt' teams in the league cup, or are the feart that the other cheek might win their trophy?

 

If they want more games they can elect to start from the group stage.

Edited by Johnstoun
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Get this proposal in to the sea.

Possible error allowing PL to enter colt teams in diddy cup.

Lack of development down to game time. Celtic and Rangers mopping up too much young talent and £5,000,000's dross from Europe. 

O k they have had the odd success but wanting to now use us as batting practice is not on.

I think continued use of yearly loan system is still a way of finding real game time for these U21 players.

And for the £125,000 maybe a fairer distribution of the prizemoney cash would help everone.

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