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League Reconstruction 20/21 season


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13 minutes ago, Aylo vanal said:

Cove would go into the third tier of Scottish football, same as they will without reconstruction so how are they worse off? 

If reconstruction goes through Cove are swapping  Falkirk, Airdrie, Partick, Montrose and East fife and Dumbarton for the same division they just won + Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Stranraer.  It’s not a good deal.

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1 minute ago, parsforlife said:

If reconstruction goes through Cove are swapping  Falkirk, Airdrie, Partick, Montrose and East fife and Dumbarton for the same division they just won + Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Stranraer.  It’s not a good deal.

 

10 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

If reconstruction goes through Cove are swapping  Falkirk, Airdrie, Partick, Montrose and East fife and Dumbarton for the same division they just won + Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Stranraer.  It’s not a good deal.

To paraphrase Kryten, I realise I'm quoting the same quote twice, but I thought it was such an important point it was worth quoting twice

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43 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

If reconstruction goes through Cove are swapping  Falkirk, Airdrie, Partick, Montrose and East fife and Dumbarton for the same division they just won + Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Stranraer.  It’s not a good deal.

Depends on the perspective, they have less competition to stop them getting to the second tier. I'm sure they'll miss the crowds from East fife and Dumbarton 😂

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8 minutes ago, Lofarl said:

This shite wont be over till we get the fixtures list eh.

I don't think they will put fixtures out until phase 2 of the lockdown exit, i.e. when there is a more realistic prospect of games being played. That isn't due to happen until the 18th.

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Rangers and Celtic being allowed to register Colt teams just means that they will hoard promising youngsters into their set up at an even greater extent than they do now, under the pretence that the Colt side offers a greater chance for them to break into the first team. There’s no need to give examples I’m sure most clubs in Scotland could point towards a player hoovered up by the Old Firm who’s career only went downhill afterwards. Jake Hastie from Motherwell is a recent one that springs to mind, I have no doubt he would be advancing more as a footballer had he stayed where he was. 
 

Looking back at the Challenge Cup games involving OF colts, they hardly set the competition on fire and the ‘bumper crowds’ following them to far flung sea side towns never materialised in the way some people had imagined. I’m sure if they were to enter the league system there would be an initial interest from their fans but I imagine that would quickly tail away, but we would still get pundits pointing to the initial honeymoon period4 or 5 years down the line as evidence of success. It’s a terrible idea that I initially thought would be laughed out of every boardroom, but reading the Brora chairman’s views worried me, I don’t think he’s the only one thinking like that. 

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A superb interview with Jim McInally on the BBC Scotland website. Everything he says is total sense. I’ve never really understood either why, in all the reconstruction plans mooted, it’s always three leagues. One of the most common reasons given for reconstruction is that nobody should be worse off. So Hearts don’t get relegated , Thistle don’t get relegated and Stranraer don’t get relegated. But in a three league reconstruction Cove Rangers are worse off, because they remain in the bottom league. If four leagues were put in place then Cove would be promoted to League 1 and would not be worse off. Having said all that, reconstruction get get in a bin somewhere.

 

The “nobody should be worse off” argument was for 14-10-10-10 that was unsurprisingly heavily favoured by Hearts, Thistle, Inverness and probably the likes of Dundee United

 

14-14-14 on the other hand was insisted on by league 2 clubs

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52439324

 

It’s not unreasonable to say that it leaves 4 teams worse off as they move from 3rd league of 4 to 3rd league of 3 but it would also benefit 6 teams who move from the 3rd league of 4 to 2nd of 4 so it could get 60% support and hence be notionally “democratic”.

 

The 4th tier get promotions all round. Shut the trap door for a summer and get bigger fixtures so If you look at the bottom two divisions as a whole that could rise to 80%.

 

 

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Also there is no reason this should be exclusively Rangers and Celtic getting the opportunity to field Colt teams, it’s another nail in the ‘We really despise each other’ coffin when they actively work together on so much... Edit - I’m aware they are the only teams with the finances to be able to do it, but the invitation should still be there imo. 
 

The actual Rangers first team were in the bottom tier of Scottish football within the last 10 years, the division they are desperate to get a Colt side into now. It’s hardly a glowing endorsement for the clubs youth system that they didn’t have the confidence to use their young players at that time, instead opting to sign Premiership standard players on ridiculous wages to compete against guys that trained twice a week and worked full time jobs as joiners, plumbers and postmen. Clubs like Hamilton, St. Mirren and Motherwell seem to be doing something right with their youth systems, at a fraction of the cost of the OF, if they were serious that this was about developing Scottish players to play for the national team then these clubs should be brought to the table as well. 

Edited by IrishBhoy
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If Premiership teams start to train next week and Hearts don’t, is it all over?
I believe clubs are meeting on Tuesday to vote on the reconstruction scenarios before them. Hearts should be relegated by 5pm.
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16 minutes ago, Green Day said:

Best thing AB could do is to declare that Hearts are bitterly opposed to the Rangers proposal and are considering fighting it in the courts. That at least gets it Hibs and St Mirren's vote. Also Ross Co's - but only for next again season. And Aberdeen's - but that could change the next day.

 

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11 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I just dont see any benefit of a Colt side over loans.

Theres literally nothing apart from having your own coaches coaching them, but presumably if they were playing at the equivalent level as the Colts would be, they would be part at their loaned club anyway.

People forget that clubs can already do this with young loanees anyway. Players who are out on loan can still play for your reserve or development side every week, while their training can be split between the parent club and the club they're on loan at meaning your coaches continue to work with them. That's still a significant amount of oversight of a player's development, so as you say there's not really any extra benefit here. The match day is the only time the parent club's coaches don't have control, and is that actually a bad thing to have young players learning from different managers?

11 hours ago, NorthBank said:

Loans seem a far better way to develop young players that have a good chance of making it rather than playing with inferior players their own age in a Colt team.

You could update the loanees to more recent examples, but I think the crop of players who were on loan to Championship clubs from Celtic or Rangers when they were first shoehorned into the Challenge Cup and these debates started are a good illustration of why this will actually hurt players as well.

At that point you had Jamie Lindsay, Aidan Nesbitt, Joe Thomson, Paul McMullan, Ryan Hardie, Tom Walsh, Scott Roberts and Jordan Thompson on loan at Championship clubs.

Taking the player with the best career to date in Jamie Lindsay, his career trajectory was a loan spell with Dumbarton in the Championship where he got experience of a relegation battle and success in staying up, a loan spell with Morton in the Championship where he got experience of challenging for the playoffs and playing in them, a loan spell with Ross County in the Premiership bringing another relegation battle which was unsuccessful. He was then was released by Celtic and signed permanently for Ross County, was arguably their best player as they cantered to the Championship title and got a move to Rotherham, where he'll be winning promotion from League One if their season is called on PPG this week.

We're supposed to believe that if Jamie Lindsay didn't have all those experiences on loan, didn't experience the lows of relegation battles and highs of promotion challenges, testing himself in the Championship and Premiership, learning from more experienced teammates and working under four different managers, he'd be a better player.

If he just stayed with a Celtic youth team that whole time, even though there was no chance he was ever going to make it at Celtic, if he played alongside other players his age rather than anyone more experienced and spent those years playing at a lower level than he did with the loan system, he'd be a better player. Not only would he be a better player, but he'd actually be magically transformed into a player capable of competing for a place in the Scotland squad.

This doesn't only apply to Jamie Lindsay, the best of those eight players I've listed. If Scott Roberts had just been able to play in League One with a Rangers youth team rather than being a laughing stock of a player in a laughing stock of a Raith team being relegated from the Championship, then bounce around failing to hold down a place in the team at Annan, Elgin and Albion Rovers, he'd surely be competing with Ryan Jack for a place in the Rangers team and Scotland squad just now.

It is complete and utter bollocks. Anyone who engages their brain for five seconds can see that it will do nothing positive for the development of young players.

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