Busta Nut Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 5 hours ago, gannonball said: We also had Marshall, Jamie Smith, Mcmanus, Beattie, Mcgeady*, Kennedy. Fair enough. Shite. Fair enough. Shite. Excluded. Shite 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohemian Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 26 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: From memory, I said that there had been some borderline racist assumptions shown in the thread. There was Cru Bag (?) who was implying that Varadkar wasn't Irish (despite having an Irish mother and being born and raised in Ireland) and there was yourself, who assumed immigrants were all refugees. tbf to you, your motives might well be fine and it's just that you have a problem with your English. Again a total and utter lie, if this is from memory you should go back and check the thread.. as I said, complete and utter lies.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: Fair enough. Shite. Fair enough. Shite. Excluded. Shite The fact we got nearly 2 million for Beattie still chuckles me. Jamie Smith was decent enough I thought. These sort of players saved us a lot of money than buying squad players and the extra wages that go with it, then punt for a few quid when they want first team football. John Kennedy was certainly not shite (was head and shoulders above Mcmanus who became our captain) but he was never the same player after injury though. Edited June 7, 2020 by gannonball 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 8 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said: To be a bit fair, these figures are skewed because we haven't qualified for anything in 22 years. Both clubs (Celtic especially) have brought through Scottish internationalists since 1998. Sorry to quote you again, as I had nothing to do and was curious about these numbers, so I looked them up. This what we have for Rangers and Celtic. These players were in a squad for qualifiers between 1998 & 2019 193 players were in the squads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 A superb interview with Jim McInally on the BBC Scotland website. Everything he says is total sense. I’ve never really understood either why, in all the reconstruction plans mooted, it’s always three leagues. One of the most common reasons given for reconstruction is that nobody should be worse off. So Hearts don’t get relegated , Thistle don’t get relegated and Stranraer don’t get relegated. But in a three league reconstruction Cove Rangers are worse off, because they remain in the bottom league. If four leagues were put in place then Cove would be promoted to League 1 and would not be worse off. Having said all that, reconstruction get get in a bin somewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Yay!! Our very own Queen's Counsel on P&B. Can we just get doon and close the thread now?You not due a meltdown? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 40 minutes ago, SlipperyP said: Sorry to quote you again, as I had nothing to do and was curious about these numbers, so I looked them up. This what we have for Rangers and Celtic. These players were in a squad for qualifiers between 1998 & 2019 193 players were in the squads. Charlie Mulgrew isn't on there 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnHearts Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: 1 hour ago, LincolnHearts said: Yay!! Our very own Queen's Counsel on P&B. Can we just get doon and close the thread now? You not due a meltdown? No visit to Dundee planned, so nah. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, gannonball said: We also had Marshall, Jamie Smith, Mcmanus, Beattie, Mcgeady*, Kennedy. To say we rarely develop players is wrong frankly. We could pretty much put out a team of internationals in past 20 years. Even the players we ‘buy’ we have developed them to levels that they almost certainly wouldn’t have made to. An recent example being Ajer signed as a 17 year old and Changing his position. *I know he was at QP for a bit but he came to us when he was 13/14 OK 10 Celtic players in 20 years that came through the ranks and played in the first team. One every two years. It was interesting to hear Jim McInally on Sportsound today talking about Colt teams. He said when he was in charge of Celtic's Colts he had 21 'jersey fillers' in a squad to develop Aiden McGeady. He found it pretty heart-breaking telling the other 21 at the end of the season that they were not going to make it at Celtic although many went on to play at a lower level. In his opinion, seconded by Willie Miller from his time as Aberdeen manager, Colt teams are a pretty useless way to develop young players. In their opinion if you were good enough you were old enough. 95% of Colt players are binned by clubs. Celtic have still bought far more young players for first team duty than they have developed through their ranks in the last 20 years. In fact is that not their stated policy now? Or are they now abandoning that policy? The conversation is about developing players via the Colt system. Ajer was signed by Celtic at 18, loaned to Kilmarnock then returned to Celtic's first team at 19. He never came through Celtic's ranks and cost them £650k. Celtic may have improved the player but it wasn't through their Colts and it cost them. Edited June 7, 2020 by NorthBank 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, NorthBank said: OK 10 Celtic players in 20 years that came through the ranks and played in the first team. One every two years. It was interesting to hear Jim McInally on Sportsound today talking about Colt teams. He said when he was in charge of Celtic's Colts he had 21 'jersey fillers' in a squad to develop Aiden McGeady. He found it pretty heart-breaking telling the other 21 at the end of the season that they were not going to make it at Celtic although many went on to play at a lower level. In his opinion, seconded by Willie Miller from his time as Aberdeen manager, Colt teams are a pretty useless way to develop young players. In their opinion if you were good enough you were old enough. 95% of Colt players are binned by clubs. Celtic have still bought far more young players for first team duty than they have developed through their ranks in the last 20 years. In fact is that not their stated policy now? Or are they now abandoning that policy? The conversation is about developing players via the Colt system. Ajer was signed by Celtic at 18, loaned to Kilmarnock then returned to Celtic's first team at 19. He never came through Celtic's ranks and cost them £650k. Celtic may have improved the player but it wasn't through their Colts and it wasn't for free. Well no that was ones who became internationals,there will be dozens who have played in the first team. We have a very decent record considering the general quality of our team and the pressure to win every week. In terms of a policy It does look like we are getting more promising players from down south, I think because we generally offer opportunities if your good enough we have managed to poach players from Arsenal and Southampton where they might be ‘jersey fillers’ there. As for the colt thing I wouldn’t have minded trying it but given the backlash on here for it I don’t wish fans of other teams in the lower leagues to stop going to the football over it. Clearly there feelings on it are much stronger than mine and it wouldn’t be right. The development loan system will suffice for me. Edited June 7, 2020 by gannonball 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I just dont see any benefit of a Colt side over loans. Theres literally nothing apart from having your own coaches coaching them, but presumably if they were playing at the equivalent level as the Colts would be, they would be part at their loaned club anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, gannonball said: Well no that was ones who became internationals,there will be dozens who have played in the first team. We have a very decent record considering the general quality of our team and the pressure to win every week. In terms of a policy It does look like we are getting more promising players from down south, I think because we generally offer opportunities if your good enough we have managed to poach players from Arsenal and Southampton where they might be ‘jersey fillers’ there. As for the colt thing I wouldn’t have minded trying it but given the backlash on here for it I don’t wish fans of other teams in the lower leagues to stop going to the football over it. Clearly there feelings on it are much stronger than mine and it wouldn’t be right. The development loan system will suffice for me. One of the main supporting arguments from Sevco's paper is to produce International players via the Colt team setup. However international development via the Colt system has an extremely poor record. Lewis Morgan for example was one of the many binned by Rangers Colts but St Mirren took him on and 12 months later was a first team regular. Very good young players are drafted into their first team squads (Kennedy at 16) or loaned out. Loans seem a far better way to develop young players that have a good chance of making it rather than playing with inferior players their own age in a Colt team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 No visit to Dundee planned, so nah. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 30 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: I just dont see any benefit of a Colt side over loans. Theres literally nothing apart from having your own coaches coaching them, but presumably if they were playing at the equivalent level as the Colts would be, they would be part at their loaned club anyway. The coach thing is a bit strange. I never met a football manager who welcomed outside views. They are all usually very particular about who is in their coaching team and who they will take advice from. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnHearts Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Predictable. Played. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: The coach thing is a bit strange. I never met a football manager who welcomed outside views. They are all usually very particular about who is in their coaching team and who they will take advice from. Jim McInally made that very point. Peterhead was happy to take a few loan players but thought it very disrespectful for coaches from other Clubs coming along to coach his players. That is what his coaches were for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post O'Kelly Isley III Posted June 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 7, 2020 Guys, FYI the Sonstrust has just posted the following statement which will be conveyed to the Dumbarton FC Board ahead of any discussion and vote on the proposals to restructure the leagues including the introduction of Colt teams. THE SONSTRUST would like to reaffirm its opposition to the idea of ‘colt teams’ being introduced into the SPFL League system. In a consultation conducted in 2018, 89% of Trust members voted against the idea of having Colt teams play in our lower leagues, and it is also the unanimous position of the Sonstrust Board. We would therefore firmly oppose any league reconstruction proposals which introduced colt teams into the bottom tier. We believe the democratic principle of ‘one club, one team’ should be upheld, and to see the lower tier devalued into little more than a development league for the top two sides in Scotland to test their youth against is something we could not support under any circumstances. This opportunistic attempt to use the crisis in Scottish football to shoehorn their development sides into the lower leagues, with the promises of guaranteed ticket sales and joining fees should be recognised as no more than a bribe – one that compromises the integrity of the competition. We believe that whatever financial benefit can be obtained by admitting colt teams into the league will be outweighed by the loss of revenue and goodwill from our supporters who overwhelmingly oppose the idea. The low attendances and boycotts at Challenge Cup fixtures involving colt teams both at The Rock and at many other grounds across Scotland show that there is little appetite to see the introduction of colt teams into the league. The Sonstrust will therefore be making firm representations to the Club in opposition to any reconstruction proposal involving colt teams being introduced into the league setup. No matter the financial gain, the Club should not sells its soul by voting for such a proposal and risk antagonising its supporters who have been incredibly generous to the club over the past few months, rallying around and contributing financially to help ensure the future of our club. 40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Dumbarton: good guys. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I must say I’ve really been enjoying @Pet Jeden’s Harvey Specter act whenever the legality of Hearts “demotion” is discussed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aylo vanal Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 2 hours ago, kingjoey said: A superb interview with Jim McInally on the BBC Scotland website. Everything he says is total sense. I’ve never really understood either why, in all the reconstruction plans mooted, it’s always three leagues. One of the most common reasons given for reconstruction is that nobody should be worse off. So Hearts don’t get relegated , Thistle don’t get relegated and Stranraer don’t get relegated. But in a three league reconstruction Cove Rangers are worse off, because they remain in the bottom league. If four leagues were put in place then Cove would be promoted to League 1 and would not be worse off. Having said all that, reconstruction get get in a bin somewhere. Cove would go into the third tier of Scottish football, same as they will without reconstruction so how are they worse off? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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