League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[Mr Heliums]

9 hours ago, DumbartonBud said:

This isn’t about what is good for Scottish football it is what is best for the arsecheeks. 

It isn't even about what's best for Scottish football. This argument that it should be about getting better players for the national team* should be shot down. Fans of lower league clubs aren't there because they want to see the best players develop. They're there because they support their local team and their local identity. These would be steamrollered by Colt teams or tie-ups. Would kill Scottish football for me.

* Of course it's a false argument anyway. But the press don't seem to acknowledge the irony that Rangers, the authors of this plan, contributed one player to the last Scotland squad.

[Hard Graft]

11 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

B sides, which would be under 21s, would get smashed most weeks in League 2. Who shines in a team that loses most weeks? Not many. Confidence would go down and guys would be lost. We always hear about how vital confidence is, and it is, it's huge. Without a single older experienced guy beside them, B teams won't fare well. There won't be the encouragement and the chance for players to try things and make mistakes vital to their learning, because we've all seen teams with no confidence after numerous pumpings. They get rid of the ball quick, shell it long, don't want to take responsibility, won't want to risk taking a man on, won't show for the ball as much

League 2 teams will out muscle B teams. They'll bully them off the ball, will put in tough challenges to them to see if they can take it. Many guys in that league are experienced, so they'll know how to play on weak psyches, how to get under the skin of younger players. Without someone on the pitch to guide them, I predict that B teams would see loads of yellow cards and a high proportion of reds. 

 

Would only be a matter of time before they changes the rules to include a couple of senior players in the team to look after the youngsters. There is no way that they are going to accept being whipping boys each week.

What makes the Bigot brothers unique thinking their colt teams will start in League 2 while the rest start in the Lowland league?

Forget about being feeder teams of the big boys as well. No way do I want to see 5 or 6 from one club turning out for my team. Do they really want to Fu'k the game up for the benefit of a few.

If this goes through then 50 years of supporting my local team ends.

Now that we are out of Europe presumably freedom of movement for players will end? 

If they really want to develop the Scottish game then surely it is time to restrict the number of foreign players in the starting 11.  Let's reduce it to 3 and see what they say to that.

In addition if they are so keen to develop under 21's then each team must include 2 under 21's in their starting 11 with under 21 cover for their positions on the bench so if one of them becomes "injured" then the replacement is an under 21.

[Mr Heliums]

44 minutes ago, SlipperyP said:

As it's all about the development of Scottish football, stop laughing at the back and the front. We all want to see Scotland at the big tournaments, well here is the hard facts.  What do both Rangers and Celtic really bring to the squad when we do qualify? 

Since 1958, Scotlands first major final,  Rangers have produced through youth or  given them their first ever senior club app, these players from all Scottish major tournament squads.

 

 

Celtic a little better

Overall it pathetic.  They can't take the risks as they can't see further than the other end of the city.  It's all about hoarding as much youngsters as possible as they might get a wee gem every 10 years.   They don't do development!

Striking too, the decline in quality of these international players since 1990 for Celtic, and the late seventies for Rangers.

[Hard Graft]

This week Sevco have signed a 20 yrs old English full back - how will he enhance the Scotland team if he plays in the colts or is he , as an under 21, considered as first team material?

[BFTD]

7 minutes ago, Hard Graft said:

This week Sevco have signed a 20 yrs old English full back - how will he enhance the Scotland team if he plays in the colts or is he , as an under 21, considered as first team material?

Think of everything the young Scots will learn playing alongside him, is the usual line.

Edit: sorry, I meant training. Training alongside him. They won't be playing, goodness me no.

Edited June 7, 2020 by BigFatTabbyDave

[Kobe2010]

Sevco don,t produce young players for Sevco never mind Scotland.Who has come through their youth system to be a first team regular since Barry Ferguson.Ian Durrant but for injury would have been a standout.As long as their support demand trophies every year as their right no manager will ever get to build something sustainable despite having a world class training facility.Sevco fans don,t seem to realise that they are a huge part of their problem.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 hour ago, SlipperyP said:

As it's all about the development of Scottish football, stop laughing at the back and the front. We all want to see Scotland at the big tournaments, well here is the hard facts.  What do both Rangers and Celtic really bring to the squad when we do qualify? 

Since 1958, Scotlands first major final,  Rangers have produced through youth or  given them their first ever senior club app, these players from all Scottish major tournament squads.

 

 

Celtic a little better

Overall it pathetic.  They can't take the risks as they can't see further than the other end of the city.  It's all about hoarding as much youngsters as possible as they might get a wee gem every 10 years.   They don't do development!

To be a bit fair, these figures are skewed because we haven't qualified for anything in 22 years.

Both clubs (Celtic especially) have brought through Scottish internationalists since 1998.

[Insaintee]

I think we should be clear why Sevco in particular want to put their player in to Senior Colt teams. It is not about development, it is about putting their reserves and youth players in the shop window. 

[SlipperyP]

31 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

To be a bit fair, these figures are skewed because we haven't qualified for anything in 22 years.

Both clubs (Celtic especially) have brought through Scottish internationalists since 1998.

But getting nowhere on the international front, we have been pishe

ETA I did mention that it was qualifying tournament squads only. The 'real deal' not coming 3rd or 4th in a qualifying group scene.

Here is a breakdown of the top 15 teams for tournament squads.  For Celtic and Rangers being the 2 power houses of Scottish football the numbers are embarrassing. I've not got the figures from other countries.  I might do the Netherlands tonight just to compare teams.

ETAx2  - This is out of 148 players.

Edited June 7, 2020 by SlipperyP

[johnnydun]

I don't see why the 'be all and end all' is a national team that qualifies for a tournament. 

We could go through another 'experiment' to try and produce talented young players, but if the Scotland Manager is never going to take a risk and play the same old jobbers, what's the point?

I am getting sick of this push for great young Scottish talent, let clubs do it their own way.

[NorthBank]

In the last 20 years I reckon only 4 Celtic players came through their youth and Colt setup to become first team players and internationalists - Callum McGregor, Kieran Tierney, James Forrest and Sean Malony. 

Other Celtic players that were capped for Scotland were all developed by other clubs before being signed by Celtic. Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd), Scott Brown (Hibs), Ryan Christie (ICT), Leigh Griffiths (Livi), Jack Hendry (PT), Lewis Morgan (St Mirren), Charlie Mulgrew (Dundee Utd) and Greg Taylor (Kilmarnock).

Can't be bothered checking the ****' players but I doubt if the list is longer than Celtics. So diddy Clubs can develop as many players that go on to be internationalists after being signed up by the OF, than the OF produce themselves. The OF rarely develop players - they buy them.

Edited June 7, 2020 by NorthBank

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

I am getting sick of this push for great young Scottish talent, let clubs do it their own way.

I dont understand why loaning players out seems such a dreadful idea.

In the last decade St Johnstone have loaned out Zander Clark, Liam Gordon, Jason Kerr, Ali McCann, Stevie May, Chris Kane and Callum Hendry. 

All made at least 10 appearances in the lower leagues, and all are now, comfortably, first team players for us.

Why would that be improved by a Colt side?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

In the last 20 years I reckon only 4 Celtic players came through their youth and Colt setup to become first team players and internationalists - Callum McGregor, Kieran Tierney, James Forrest and Sean Malony. 
Other Celtic players that were capped for Scotland were all developed by other clubs before being signed by Celtic. Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd), Scott Brown (Hibs), Ryan Christie (ICT), Leigh Griffiths (Livi), Jack Hendry (PT), Lewis Morgan (St Mirren), Charlie Mulgrew (Dundee Utd) and Greg Taylor (Kilmarnock).
Can't be bothered checking the ****' players but I doubt if the list is longer than Celtics. So diddy Clubs can develop as many players that go on to be internationalists after being signed up by the OF, than the OF produce themselves. The OF rarely develop players - they buy them.

The point being that if you did have colts teams then it would be from any team but the two arse cheeks.

[Archie McSquackle]

In the last 20 years I reckon only 4 Celtic players came through their youth and Colt setup to become first team players and internationalists - Callum McGregor, Kieran Tierney, James Forrest and Sean Malony. 
Other Celtic players that were capped for Scotland were all developed by other clubs before being signed by Celtic. Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd), Scott Brown (Hibs), Ryan Christie (ICT), Leigh Griffiths (Livi), Jack Hendry (PT), Lewis Morgan (St Mirren), Charlie Mulgrew (Dundee Utd) and Greg Taylor (Kilmarnock).
Can't be bothered checking the ****' players but I doubt if the list is longer than Celtics. So diddy Clubs can develop as many players that go on to be internationalists after being signed up by the OF, than the OF produce themselves. The OF rarely develop players - they buy them.

Stephen McManus also?

[NorthBank]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I dont understand why loaning players out seems such a dreadful idea.

In the last decade St Johnstone have loaned out Zander Clark, Liam Gordon, Jason Kerr, Ali McCann, Stevie May, Chris Kane and Callum Hendry. 

All made at least 10 appearances in the lower leagues, and all are now, comfortably, first team players for us.

Why would that be improved by a Colt side?

Loans would be far more beneficial than a colt team playing against part-timers in the lowest League. In a loan a player has experienced team mates to advise them - a colt team is still made up of young boys. But this isn't about developing young players - it is about making the OF stronger at the expense of the rest.

[NorthBank]

3 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said:

14 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

In the last 20 years I reckon only 4 Celtic players came through their youth and Colt setup to become first team players and internationalists - Callum McGregor, Kieran Tierney, James Forrest and Sean Malony. 
Other Celtic players that were capped for Scotland were all developed by other clubs before being signed by Celtic. Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd), Scott Brown (Hibs), Ryan Christie (ICT), Leigh Griffiths (Livi), Jack Hendry (PT), Lewis Morgan (St Mirren), Charlie Mulgrew (Dundee Utd) and Greg Taylor (Kilmarnock).
Can't be bothered checking the ****' players but I doubt if the list is longer than Celtics. So diddy Clubs can develop as many players that go on to be internationalists after being signed up by the OF, than the OF produce themselves. The OF rarely develop players - they buy them.

Stephen McManus also?

Forgot about him. Yea, 5 in 20 years.

[theauldyin]

42 minutes ago, Insaintee said:

I think we should be clear why Sevco in particular want to put their player in to Senior Colt teams. It is not about development, it is about putting their reserves and youth players in the shop window. 

Exactly this,!!  the money they will pay up front which gets less each year is peanuts, compared to what they would make putting young players in the shop window. I did not use the word their players, as they will hoover up any potential of every else's young talent.  

[cyderspaceman]

On 05/06/2020 at 21:21, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

I honestly think they have collectively lost control now. It is the email/zoom equivalent of a shouting match around who has the zaniest idea.

We are in danger of voting something ridiculous in whilst in  a vacuum of leadership and vision.

It recently  happened in the English political arena.  Nothing is certain. 

[Fife Saint]

What about a wee development clause where a % of a future transfer fee gets distributed amongst colt affected teams? 90% sounds about right since it's all about development.

[Tannadeechee]

25 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

Charlie Mulgrew (Dundee Utd) 

Can't be bothered checking the ****' players but I doubt if the list is longer than Celtics. So diddy Clubs can develop as many players that go on to be internationalists after being signed up by the OF, than the OF produce themselves. The OF rarely develop players - they buy them.

Not that I want to give them credit, but Mulgrew came through the ranks at Celtic. He was loaned to United as part of the deal to take Mark Wilson to Celtic.

The rest of your point stands though and totally agree.