Dons_1988 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Snifter Pee Rot said: If these clubs are going to go under they should get interest free loans from the SFA, not bribes from Bailout Gifford via Tynecastle. I'm sure the SFA are well placed to dish out interest free loans to businesses at a very high risk of not being able to repay them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 The open letter to Scottish football in full: Dear all, We understand that 2020 is a year that will long be remembered for the tragedy and loss of life that has afflicted this country, as almost every across the world. Our organisations pay tribute to the frontline workers who have given everything to help give others hope; we mourn with those who’s loves ones are now gone. To talk about Scottish football at this time feels very difficult, and it is for that reason we’ve chosen not to comment publicly, until now. It isn’t a surprise that as Heart of Midlothian supporters we feel strongly that the club currently faces demotion to the Scottish Championship. But, as football supporters and in effect the largest sponsors of our game, we call on everyone in the game to come together and ensure that the game we all love survives long beyond Covid-19. To that effect we call Scottish football, and in particular the SPFL to take a number of steps: - We believe that the SPFL executive (both chief executive and independent directors) should be taking ownership and leading clubs through this time; they should be the arbiter of fairness and genuine guardians of the game - We do not believe it is for clubs such as ours to be heading up our ‘own’ reconstruction talks – because when discussions are framed in this way, they will fail, because the vast majority of clubs only consider themselves, and consider Heart of Midlothian to be doing likewise. When this happens, rancour will continue, and our game will continue to suffer - Club leaders would be wise to consider carefully public pronouncements right now, because words last long, even if it might appear that cheap throwaway remarks are simply tomorrow’s chip paper. As custodians they bear an enormous responsibility, too - We call upon the SPFL to formally ask every member club to submit assurances that they can start and finish season 2020/2021, by which we mean participating in: 1. A full league programme (i.e. at least 36 games before play-offs, and 38 in the Premiership) 2. The Scottish League Cup 3. The Challenge Cup (where clubs play in the Championship, League 1 and League 2) - Clubs that can formally declare that they are in a strong enough financial position to fulfil that obligation should be allowed to do so at the earliest opportunity when the Scottish Government permits - Only then, can the set-up of any league structure be decided upon, depending on how many clubs can make that unequivocal commitment - Clubs who cannot should be allowed to “mothball” without incurring any form of further punishment, until fans are allowed back into stadiums and we can resume something resembling normal match day experiences. These seem pragmatic next steps, but beyond that as supporters we believe our view should be heard (and we don’t believe we are alone for the longer term). Once there is some normality in the world, we believe a complete revamp of how our governing body is structured and operates is essential. We suggest an independent support is secured to look at the current set up of the SPFL, with the power to drive significant change such as: - Robust, transparent governance - Clear, focused plans which are supported by key metrics to determine success (or otherwise) - A board and executive which does not include club representation and operates independently against the above clear, focused plans – and which is judged robustly by shareholders (i.e. the clubs on the success of their delivery) Ann Budge quite rightly talks about Heart of Midlothian becoming ‘fan owned, but not fan run.’ On that same basis we believe the SPFL (as a limited company) should be ‘club owned, but not club run’. We believe that the biggest issue at this time is that the clubs run the SPFL, enabling an easy get out for the SPFL executive and its board. How often do we hear the phrase, “we’re a members’ organisation?” This means politics and self-interest becomes a huge part of managing the SPFL, rather than looking outwardly, seeking new ideas, engaging with supporters and creating an amazing league competition, which are celebrated by supporters, broadcasters and sponsors. This is probably the hardest period our game has experienced and the very existence of a lot of clubs is in danger. We need positive action now to safeguard that future for all and move forward. Heart of Midlothian means the world to us, but this is far bigger than anything down at Tynecastle Park right now. Yours in sport, Stevie Kilgour, secretary of Federation Hearts Supporters' Club, & Bill Alves, chairman of Heart of Midlothian Shareholders Association 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Snifter Pee Rot said: If these clubs are going to go under they should get interest free loans from the SFA, not bribes from Bailout Gifford via Tynecastle. I give up. Partick would be demoted with 2 points behind and a game in hand. 14-10-10-10 stops that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 More tear-stained pish from Hearts fans 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 I've got a mate with loads of money. Kick Celtic and Rangers out of the top league, let Clyde in, and he is going to give everyone in Scotland a million quid each. This is not about self-interest, it is what's best for Scottish football. Honest. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 hours ago, Dons_1988 said: I think folk are jumping to conclusions re Doncaster's letter re reconstruction and James Anderson's input. I suspect Doncaster has always been favourable of a way to have Hearts in the league but ultimately it's the clubs decision. I still can't see reconstruction getting anywhere near enough support. The only way I see that changing is if the Championship is heavily truncated due to clubs unable to compete. It could happen that not all Championship teams can play behind closed doors, but then it becomes all Championship clubs that can play behind closed doors need a solution, not just Hearts. Lets suppose that the only clubs able and willing to play behind closed doors are Hearts, ICT, Raith, Dundee, Dunfermline, Morton, what is more likely; a league of 18 or that Partick Thistle, Falkirk, Airdrie and maybe Clyde are invited to make up the numbers in the championship? If not all of them could field teams to play behind closed doors, we could let the SPFL teams play their colts for a season in the Championship. I actually quite like that idea. Save Thistle, f**k hearts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snifter Pee Rot Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 47 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: I'm sure the SFA are well placed to dish out interest free loans to businesses at a very high risk of not being able to repay them. Well they can collateralise any loan against their grounds if need be. Petrie can flog off their pitches to Acme Corp to get his £48k plus costs back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 49 minutes ago, Green Day said: The open letter to Scottish football in full: Dear all, We understand that 2020 is a year that will long be remembered for the tragedy and loss of life that has afflicted this country, as almost every across the world. Our organisations pay tribute to the frontline workers who have given everything to help give others hope; we mourn with those who’s loves ones are now gone. To talk about Scottish football at this time feels very difficult, and it is for that reason we’ve chosen not to comment publicly, until now. It isn’t a surprise that as Heart of Midlothian supporters we feel strongly that the club currently faces demotion to the Scottish Championship. But, as football supporters and in effect the largest sponsors of our game, we call on everyone in the game to come together and ensure that the game we all love survives long beyond Covid-19. To that effect we call Scottish football, and in particular the SPFL to take a number of steps: - We believe that the SPFL executive (both chief executive and independent directors) should be taking ownership and leading clubs through this time; they should be the arbiter of fairness and genuine guardians of the game - We do not believe it is for clubs such as ours to be heading up our ‘own’ reconstruction talks – because when discussions are framed in this way, they will fail, because the vast majority of clubs only consider themselves, and consider Heart of Midlothian to be doing likewise. When this happens, rancour will continue, and our game will continue to suffer - Club leaders would be wise to consider carefully public pronouncements right now, because words last long, even if it might appear that cheap throwaway remarks are simply tomorrow’s chip paper. As custodians they bear an enormous responsibility, too - We call upon the SPFL to formally ask every member club to submit assurances that they can start and finish season 2020/2021, by which we mean participating in: 1. A full league programme (i.e. at least 36 games before play-offs, and 38 in the Premiership) 2. The Scottish League Cup 3. The Challenge Cup (where clubs play in the Championship, League 1 and League 2) - Clubs that can formally declare that they are in a strong enough financial position to fulfil that obligation should be allowed to do so at the earliest opportunity when the Scottish Government permits - Only then, can the set-up of any league structure be decided upon, depending on how many clubs can make that unequivocal commitment - Clubs who cannot should be allowed to “mothball” without incurring any form of further punishment, until fans are allowed back into stadiums and we can resume something resembling normal match day experiences. These seem pragmatic next steps, but beyond that as supporters we believe our view should be heard (and we don’t believe we are alone for the longer term). Once there is some normality in the world, we believe a complete revamp of how our governing body is structured and operates is essential. We suggest an independent support is secured to look at the current set up of the SPFL, with the power to drive significant change such as: - Robust, transparent governance - Clear, focused plans which are supported by key metrics to determine success (or otherwise) - A board and executive which does not include club representation and operates independently against the above clear, focused plans – and which is judged robustly by shareholders (i.e. the clubs on the success of their delivery) Ann Budge quite rightly talks about Heart of Midlothian becoming ‘fan owned, but not fan run.’ On that same basis we believe the SPFL (as a limited company) should be ‘club owned, but not club run’. We believe that the biggest issue at this time is that the clubs run the SPFL, enabling an easy get out for the SPFL executive and its board. How often do we hear the phrase, “we’re a members’ organisation?” This means politics and self-interest becomes a huge part of managing the SPFL, rather than looking outwardly, seeking new ideas, engaging with supporters and creating an amazing league competition, which are celebrated by supporters, broadcasters and sponsors. This is probably the hardest period our game has experienced and the very existence of a lot of clubs is in danger. We need positive action now to safeguard that future for all and move forward. Heart of Midlothian means the world to us, but this is far bigger than anything down at Tynecastle Park right now. Yours in sport, Stevie Kilgour, secretary of Federation Hearts Supporters' Club, & Bill Alves, chairman of Heart of Midlothian Shareholders Association images (1).jfif 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Open letter from the Federation of P&B Hibernian Bois: 'Snifter's a gimp'. 5 hours ago, Mr. X said: Lovely cast there. I expect you'll hook a few. I'm still about 80% in the 'we're going to court' camp. I'll be shocked if we're not playing in the Championship next season. Surely reconstruction is your best bet from here. The way Doncaster has changed his tune since the appearance of money would suggest something is brewing. Certainly seems more of a goer than this 'I've had legal advice though' posturing from Budge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mr. X said: All I know is that Ann Budge believes she has a legal case against the SPFL. The SPFL have a Duty of Care for all members under common law and Restriction of Trade has also been mentioned. I'm not even going to attempt to debate the legal stand point as I wouldn't know where to begin. I do understand that couple of QC's have advised her that she has a strong case. I also understand that it can help your case if you can prove in court you have tried every possible alternative avenue prior to taking the legal route. If Budge really believed she had a legal case against the SPFL, then she'd be taking them to court not running around chasing the hopeless task of fast tracking league reconstruction and dropping fivers every where . It will not help her case if the alternative avenues are shown not to be possible. Edited June 4, 2020 by Insaintee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Green Day said: The open letter to Scottish football in full: Dear all, We understand that 2020 is a year that will long be remembered for the tragedy and loss of life that has afflicted this country, as almost every across the world. Our organisations pay tribute to the frontline workers who have given everything to help give others hope; we mourn with those who’s loves ones are now gone. To talk about Scottish football at this time feels very difficult, and it is for that reason we’ve chosen not to comment publicly, until now. It isn’t a surprise that as Heart of Midlothian supporters we feel strongly that the club currently faces demotion to the Scottish Championship. But, as football supporters and in effect the largest sponsors of our game, we call on everyone in the game to come together and ensure that the game we all love survives long beyond Covid-19. To that effect we call Scottish football, and in particular the SPFL to take a number of steps: - We believe that the SPFL executive (both chief executive and independent directors) should be taking ownership and leading clubs through this time; they should be the arbiter of fairness and genuine guardians of the game - We do not believe it is for clubs such as ours to be heading up our ‘own’ reconstruction talks – because when discussions are framed in this way, they will fail, because the vast majority of clubs only consider themselves, and consider Heart of Midlothian to be doing likewise. When this happens, rancour will continue, and our game will continue to suffer - Club leaders would be wise to consider carefully public pronouncements right now, because words last long, even if it might appear that cheap throwaway remarks are simply tomorrow’s chip paper. As custodians they bear an enormous responsibility, too - We call upon the SPFL to formally ask every member club to submit assurances that they can start and finish season 2020/2021, by which we mean participating in: 1. A full league programme (i.e. at least 36 games before play-offs, and 38 in the Premiership) 2. The Scottish League Cup 3. The Challenge Cup (where clubs play in the Championship, League 1 and League 2) - Clubs that can formally declare that they are in a strong enough financial position to fulfil that obligation should be allowed to do so at the earliest opportunity when the Scottish Government permits - Only then, can the set-up of any league structure be decided upon, depending on how many clubs can make that unequivocal commitment - Clubs who cannot should be allowed to “mothball” without incurring any form of further punishment, until fans are allowed back into stadiums and we can resume something resembling normal match day experiences. These seem pragmatic next steps, but beyond that as supporters we believe our view should be heard (and we don’t believe we are alone for the longer term). Once there is some normality in the world, we believe a complete revamp of how our governing body is structured and operates is essential. We suggest an independent support is secured to look at the current set up of the SPFL, with the power to drive significant change such as: - Robust, transparent governance - Clear, focused plans which are supported by key metrics to determine success (or otherwise) - A board and executive which does not include club representation and operates independently against the above clear, focused plans – and which is judged robustly by shareholders (i.e. the clubs on the success of their delivery) Ann Budge quite rightly talks about Heart of Midlothian becoming ‘fan owned, but not fan run.’ On that same basis we believe the SPFL (as a limited company) should be ‘club owned, but not club run’. We believe that the biggest issue at this time is that the clubs run the SPFL, enabling an easy get out for the SPFL executive and its board. How often do we hear the phrase, “we’re a members’ organisation?” This means politics and self-interest becomes a huge part of managing the SPFL, rather than looking outwardly, seeking new ideas, engaging with supporters and creating an amazing league competition, which are celebrated by supporters, broadcasters and sponsors. This is probably the hardest period our game has experienced and the very existence of a lot of clubs is in danger. We need positive action now to safeguard that future for all and move forward. Heart of Midlothian means the world to us, but this is far bigger than anything down at Tynecastle Park right now. Yours in sport, Stevie Kilgour, secretary of Federation Hearts Supporters' Club, & Bill Alves, chairman of Heart of Midlothian Shareholders Association Jesus suffering f**k, do folk not proof read things?! What is this shit supposed to mean: It isn’t a surprise that as Heart of Midlothian supporters we feel strongly that the club currently faces demotion to the Scottish Championship. I think we all feel strongly that Hearts have been relegated, because they have been. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flood Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: I give up. Partick would be demoted with 2 points behind and a game in hand. 14-10-10-10 stops that. So does 12-12-10-10 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Figuring out how many clubs are actually going to be available to fulfill fixtures before actually drawing up fixture lists shouldn’t be that controversial a suggestion really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesM82 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Figuring out how many clubs are actually going to be available to fulfill fixtures before actually drawing up fixture lists shouldn’t be that controversial a suggestion really. That also applies to voting on reconstruction. No point expanding the top two divisions to 24 (14-10-10-10) or 28 (14-14-whatever) clubs and then finding the extra teams don't want to play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theauldyin Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Green Day said: The open letter to Scottish football in full: Dear all, We understand that 2020 is a year that will long be remembered for the tragedy and loss of life that has afflicted this country, as almost every across the world. Our organisations pay tribute to the frontline workers who have given everything to help give others hope; we mourn with those who’s loves ones are now gone. To talk about Scottish football at this time feels very difficult, and it is for that reason we’ve chosen not to comment publicly, until now. It isn’t a surprise that as Heart of Midlothian supporters we feel strongly that the club currently faces demotion to the Scottish Championship. But, as football supporters and in effect the largest sponsors of our game, we call on everyone in the game to come together and ensure that the game we all love survives long beyond Covid-19. To that effect we call Scottish football, and in particular the SPFL to take a number of steps: - We believe that the SPFL executive (both chief executive and independent directors) should be taking ownership and leading clubs through this time; they should be the arbiter of fairness and genuine guardians of the game - We do not believe it is for clubs such as ours to be heading up our ‘own’ reconstruction talks – because when discussions are framed in this way, they will fail, because the vast majority of clubs only consider themselves, and consider Heart of Midlothian to be doing likewise. When this happens, rancour will continue, and our game will continue to suffer - Club leaders would be wise to consider carefully public pronouncements right now, because words last long, even if it might appear that cheap throwaway remarks are simply tomorrow’s chip paper. As custodians they bear an enormous responsibility, too - We call upon the SPFL to formally ask every member club to submit assurances that they can start and finish season 2020/2021, by which we mean participating in: 1. A full league programme (i.e. at least 36 games before play-offs, and 38 in the Premiership) 2. The Scottish League Cup 3. The Challenge Cup (where clubs play in the Championship, League 1 and League 2) - Clubs that can formally declare that they are in a strong enough financial position to fulfil that obligation should be allowed to do so at the earliest opportunity when the Scottish Government permits - Only then, can the set-up of any league structure be decided upon, depending on how many clubs can make that unequivocal commitment - Clubs who cannot should be allowed to “mothball” without incurring any form of further punishment, until fans are allowed back into stadiums and we can resume something resembling normal match day experiences. These seem pragmatic next steps, but beyond that as supporters we believe our view should be heard (and we don’t believe we are alone for the longer term). Once there is some normality in the world, we believe a complete revamp of how our governing body is structured and operates is essential. We suggest an independent support is secured to look at the current set up of the SPFL, with the power to drive significant change such as: - Robust, transparent governance - Clear, focused plans which are supported by key metrics to determine success (or otherwise) - A board and executive which does not include club representation and operates independently against the above clear, focused plans – and which is judged robustly by shareholders (i.e. the clubs on the success of their delivery) Ann Budge quite rightly talks about Heart of Midlothian becoming ‘fan owned, but not fan run.’ On that same basis we believe the SPFL (as a limited company) should be ‘club owned, but not club run’. We believe that the biggest issue at this time is that the clubs run the SPFL, enabling an easy get out for the SPFL executive and its board. How often do we hear the phrase, “we’re a members’ organisation?” This means politics and self-interest becomes a huge part of managing the SPFL, rather than looking outwardly, seeking new ideas, engaging with supporters and creating an amazing league competition, which are celebrated by supporters, broadcasters and sponsors. This is probably the hardest period our game has experienced and the very existence of a lot of clubs is in danger. We need positive action now to safeguard that future for all and move forward. Heart of Midlothian means the world to us, but this is far bigger than anything down at Tynecastle Park right now. Yours in sport, Stevie Kilgour, secretary of Federation Hearts Supporters' Club, & Bill Alves, chairman of Heart of Midlothian Shareholders Association FFS !! can they just accept we had a vote it was carried THE HERTZ GO DOWN !! now mair f**king pish from them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Figuring out how many clubs are actually going to be available to fulfill fixtures before actually drawing up fixture lists shouldn’t be that controversial a suggestion really. I don't see how teams can commit to fulfilling something entirely theoretical until we know what happens to the virus. Should they all recruit full squads now to ensure they're ready for games in August that might never happen? That letter reminds me of Harry Enfield playing loadsamoney, shouting "show us your money or f**k off". Edited June 4, 2020 by welshbairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 This is a question I asked multiple pages back. If we don't even know whether all 42 teams will be able to play as and when "next season" starts, or if they'll all be able to play BCD; is there really any point in debating what the league structure should be? I still think we'll be looking at reconstruction whether we want it or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I don't see how teams can commit to fulfil something entirely theoretical until we know what happens to the virus. Should they all recruit full squads now to ensure they're ready for games in August that might never happen? Also note that while the letter claims that clubs choosing to mothball should not be subjected to punishment the simple fact is that such clubs would be rejoining an already formed league, and almost certainly being 'fitted in' below the sides that had just finished the latest league season. Such a two speed recovery inevitably means that some clubs end up being leap frogged from their current positions and rejoining at a lower step. That is surely punishment of the same sort as Hearts are currently complaining about? It's hard to take Hearts fans seriously when they start talking about how such suggestions are not controversial when all they do is remind you of an Argentinian Rugby coach on a mountain side, looking at his backline and deciding that his scrum half looks decidedly peaky and who'd miss him anyway? Edited June 4, 2020 by renton 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Shotgun said: This is a question I asked multiple pages back. If we don't even know whether all 42 teams will be able to play as and when "next season" starts, or if they'll all be able to play BCD; is there really any point in debating what the league structure should be? I still think we'll be looking at reconstruction whether we want it or not. I'd like them to agree on a format in case football can go ahead relatively normally in, say, September. If it's behind closed doors only, maybe work now on an alternative, maybe a one off single league for the willing clubs. Forcing clubs to legally commit now to the fucking Challenge Cup is perverse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, JamesM82 said: That also applies to voting on reconstruction. No point expanding the top two divisions to 24 (14-10-10-10) or 28 (14-14-whatever) clubs and then finding the extra teams don't want to play. Indeed Clubs who may or may not be able to play are going to be very reluctant to admit that there's any doubt. The 14 team top flight has the advantage of rewarding teams who looked set to finish top without punishing clubs who might have got off the bottom but if there's only 20 teams available then it would need to be 10-10 Edited June 4, 2020 by topcat(The most tip top) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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