League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[wastecoatwilly]

26 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Who would sponsor the bottom two leagues and for how much on their own? 

There is plenty of whisky and soup for a lifetime.

[Bully Wee Villa]

7 minutes ago, Vandy said:

That’s the point there should be a distinction between full time professional clubs and part time community clubs.
Thats all Strachan was saying!

Gonna be some laugh when you lose to part-time Alloa next season.

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

21 minutes ago, Vandy said:

The Professional game is what sells.

Part time clubs with a few hundred fans have their place as community clubs to bring players through.

Strachan was right in criticising some part time clubs because they aren’t even community clubs! 
Dumbarton don’t even have a youth set up! Just 16 guys who turn up and play for a few quid in their spare time.

Your score on the reddies suggests you post to annoy people. On that basis I am unsure as to why people are entertaining your low quality, transparent trolling.

[Johnstoun]

If the Heart's team chased lost causes with this much vigour they would never have been in bother in the first place.

[Tony Wonder]

The reconstruction clearly won't pass.  But trying to group teams into leagues where they can actually and allow the option for leagues to be mothballed for clubs that can afford it doesn't seem that bad.  It's temporary with an option to vote on it remaining or reverting to the current setup in the future.  Teams complaining it means they could get relegated in two years time, it could also see you more likely to be promoted in one.  Also, I think more importantly, if we don't try to act there might not be some clubs here in 2 years

Cove, Stranraer, Forfar etc would still be in the third tier so not 'relegated", it's literally a restructure.

There are teams who can't afford not to play with no income.  There are some who would be in a position to do so once some fans are back, and there are some who want to mothball until they feel they can come out of it.  Fans want to see Hearts down, fair enough.  But there's going to be a point very soon all clubs will start struggling, a temporary restructure to make sure you are aligned as closely as possible with teams in the same boat makes sense and I genuinely  think this helps in regards to the problems those challenges bring, it's clearly not perfect.  It won't be voted for, but it's not the horror show everyone here is claiming it to be. 

[Sparticus]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

The reconstruction clearly won't pass.  But trying to group teams into leagues where they can actually and allow the option for leagues to be mothballed for clubs that can afford it doesn't seem that bad.  It's temporary with an option to vote on it remaining or reverting to the current setup in the future.  Teams complaining it means they could get relegated in two years time, it could also see you more likely to be promoted in one.  Also, I think more importantly, if we don't try to act there might not be some clubs here in 2 years

Cove, Stranraer, Forfar etc would still be in the third tier so not 'relegated", it's literally a restructure.

There are teams who can't afford not to play with no income.  There are some who would be in a position to do so once some fans are back, and there are some who want to mothball until they feel they can come out of it.  Fans want to see Hearts down, fair enough.  But there's going to be a point very soon all clubs will start struggling, a temporary restructure to make sure you are aligned as closely as possible with teams in the same boat makes sense and I genuinely  think this helps in regards to the problems those challenges bring, it's clearly not perfect.  It won't be voted for, but it's not the horror show everyone here is claiming it to be. 

Dont think we are anywhere near going down that road. None of us has a crystal ball but at this stage we should be planning the leagues as normal.

Almost every European country is starting football back and its still only May.

Looks good for an August/September start.

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

 

Cove, Stranraer, Forfar etc would still be in the third tier so not 'relegated", it's literally a restructure.

 

Cove would go from winning a league containing 9 League Two sides, and their reward would be playing in a division with 10 League Two sides, and three League One sides.

How the f**k is that not a "relegation"?

This "theyll be in the third tier either way" is a complete straw man. Theyd be playing in League Two again.

Edited May 27, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[Johnstoun]

22 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

Gonna be some laugh when you lose to go part-time Alloa next season.

ftfy

[Bully Wee Villa]

Absolutely. Peterhead won the league, Clyde narrowly missed out on the title and then won the playoffs. Both acquitted themselves well in the division above and had no realistic danger of going down. Cove were miles clear when the league was stopped and would have won their title.

If the restructuring was voted through, all three would be in the same division as Brechin, seventeen points in the fourth tier this season. 

That's clearly an unfair demotion, rendering all said clubs' efforts over the past one/two seasons irrelevant.

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

12 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

The reconstruction clearly won't pass.  But trying to group teams into leagues where they can actually and allow the option for leagues to be mothballed for clubs that can afford it doesn't seem that bad.  It's temporary with an option to vote on it remaining or reverting to the current setup in the future.  Teams complaining it means they could get relegated in two years time, it could also see you more likely to be promoted in one.  Also, I think more importantly, if we don't try to act there might not be some clubs here in 2 years

Cove, Stranraer, Forfar etc would still be in the third tier so not 'relegated", it's literally a restructure.

There are teams who can't afford not to play with no income.  There are some who would be in a position to do so once some fans are back, and there are some who want to mothball until they feel they can come out of it.  Fans want to see Hearts down, fair enough.  But there's going to be a point very soon all clubs will start struggling, a temporary restructure to make sure you are aligned as closely as possible with teams in the same boat makes sense and I genuinely  think this helps in regards to the problems those challenges bring, it's clearly not perfect.  It won't be voted for, but it's not the horror show everyone here is claiming it to be. 

Wow - another 'you are not relegated' as it is still the third tier propagandist.  Infantile attempt at ignoring the clear reduction in income that would entail, but then as long as Hearts are not suffering it isn't important...…… you can add me to the long list of people wishing you ill.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

Absolutely. Peterhead won the league, Clyde narrowly missed out on the title and then won the playoffs. Both acquitted themselves well in the division above and had no realistic danger of going down. Cove were miles clear when the league was stopped and would have won their title.

If the restructuring was voted through, all three would be in the same division as Brechin, seventeen points in the fourth tier this season. 

That's clearly an unfair demotion, rendering all said clubs' efforts over the past one/two seasons irrelevant.

And all three would be playing a division which, presumably if there will be a return to 12-10-10-10, would have 10 "relegation places" in a division of 14 

[vikingTON]

16 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

There are teams who can't afford not to play with no income.  There are some who would be in a position to do so once some fans are back, and there are some who want to mothball until they feel they can come out of it.  Fans want to see Hearts down, fair enough.  But there's going to be a point very soon all clubs will start struggling, a temporary restructure to make sure you are aligned as closely as possible with teams in the same boat makes sense and I genuinely  think this helps in regards to the problems those challenges bring, it's clearly not perfect.  It won't be voted for, but it's not the horror show everyone here is claiming it to be. 

Unless you're proposing to set up an entirely separate challenge league for the 20/21 campaign - which would utterly fail as a business model - then what you're actually calling for here is an entirely arbitrary restructure of the SPFL divisions, all to cherry pick some 'big teams' and lift them out of the ditch that several years of sporting failure has left them in. With no chance of reverting back to the 19/20 standings and punting them back to where they belong at the end of it. 

That idea belongs at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

Edited May 27, 2020 by vikingTON

[Ian38018]

12 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

there might not be some clubs here in 2 years

I have never quite bought into this argument of clubs disappearing, if we cannot start up again soon.  

If needs be they just go to into hibernation (no pun intended) until conditions allow resumption.  After all, I am fairly sure all clubs re-emerged after seven years inactivity after WWII - with the exception of King's Park, who had lost their park to the Luftwaffe.

[Tony Wonder]

15 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Cove would go from winning a league containing 9 League Two sides, and their reward would be playing in a division with 10 League Two sides, and three League One sides.

How the f**k is that not a "relegation"?

This "theyll be in the third tier either way" is a complete straw man. Theyd be playing in League Two again.

They'd be one good season from the championship.  And they'd be one of the favourites to so, they wouldn't be in a current league one.

[the jambo-rocker]

I’ve stayed away from PnB mostly because the tone of how some people have come across honestly has me worried I’ll come on and say things I’ll regret in a very “Rangers 2012” –esque tone.

 

 

 

I really am not a fan of how Budge has handled this. Quite frankly it shouldn’t be her job in the first place to decide all this, with a 400k CEO doing nothing else and hiding in the background (at least he gets his bonus for the season being complete though). The premiership needs Hearts tone had me with my hands on head, as it’s so belligerently small minded, to think us above anyone else considering how we’ve conducted ourselves. What I will say is reading some of the non-hearts posters tones have been crass themselves and probably warranted, because because it’s still my club still has me angry in the sense that someone hit your brother and you feel the need to defend him. I feel we have some justifiable grievance, and although I’d never say don’t stick the boot to us in as I’m a big fan of it myself, between my personal mind-set over the last 9 weeks and the pile-on really has me in a state every time the subject comes up. Yes, we probably do deserve relegation, I’m not going to get into it because a lot of people have made their minds up and nothing will change that plus everything is done now and can’t be changed, but I do feel we don’t deserve this kind of relegation, where it was not all decided on the pitch, and there might not even be anything of a championship to play in for next season.

 

 

 

I don’t mind that other clubs voted to protect their own interests, but it’s hypocritical to have a go at us for doing so ourselves, especially when we’re probably going to suffer more than most over this without any concession of good faith between all clubs at all. You have to understand the ‘just accept it with dignity’ shtick isn’t that easy to take when everyone knows damn well they’d be pissed off it were their club in our position. Honestly it feels like we’re the meat shield for every other club, and whether they meant it to or not.

 

 

 

Fwiw, I don’t really like the reconstruction plans put down and Budge’s tone deaf approach. I can only imagine that Budge has tailored it as much as possible to the best chance of getting through based on the discussions that she’s had with everyone else, but there is no way everyone will agree to it. The 14 teams at the bottom tier to satisfy what the 10 League 2 clubs agreed a month ago, and the top tier is apparently not against 14 if we concede our parachute payment to make up the difference of TV revenue. The caveat would of course the championship clubs and your Clyde and Peterhead getting shafted, not to mention if it were truly in the interest of everyone, Kelty and Brora in for 16 at the bottom, but that’s only an option that everyone would have to agree on.

 

 

 

We have a lot of the blame on ourselves and rightly too, but honestly, with the manner of how the vote went, seeing only one other country taking this route and everyone else piling on, I feel like I’m almost done with Scottish football after this. It’s utterly fucking shite and I’ve never been more disillusioned with the game.

 

Tl;Dr - Aye were fucked but it's like we're not allowed to be fucked off about everything.

 

 

 

 

[Zing.]

How many more goes does Ann Budge get at this if this proposal fails? Surely it can’t drag on for another month or two.

Edit: I only noticed this morning that she’d dangled the carrot of her and the benefactors paying for coronavirus testing for lower league clubs if her reconstruction model is approved. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Zing.

[Bully Wee Villa]

@the jambo-rocker, sorry forgot to quote your post and now don't seem able to without having to retype all the pish below...

I've said before that I've some sympathy for Hearts and Thistle, they may not have escaped but it was far from impossible.

If you look at Clyde's statement, it says that the club were willing to consider restructuring if it could be done in a way that didn't unfairly impact any member club.

Budge ignored said goodwill and continued with the plan to bludgeon through 14-14-14, even though doing so would be shafting a number of clubs. Claiming that said move was about the good of Scottish football rather than for Hearts' interests is also just silly.

That, and the "part-time clubs deserve to go bust for not doing what we want" attitude of some (though, admittedly, not all) Hearts fans is why they have lost any sympathy.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Bully Wee Villa

[ahemps]

19 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Cove would go from winning a league containing 9 League Two sides, and their reward would be playing in a division with 10 League Two sides, and three League One sides.

How the f**k is that not a "relegation"?

This "theyll be in the third tier either way" is a complete straw man. Theyd be playing in League Two again.

Yes they will still be third tier and but they have just won league 2, so they will now be playing the same teams but with Clyde, Forfar, Stranraer and Peterhead added. They will be among the favourites to be promoted to the 2nd tier or championship. If the leagues stay as they are then Cove will be competing against Falkirk, Partick, Airdrie etc for promotion. They probably won't be among the favourites. 

I agree it may feel like they are not being promoted and that is a negative but in the 2 scenarios of league reconstruction which option gives them a better chance to get to the championship.

Genuine question, what would you prefer as a Cove fan?

[btb]

Two seasons only  - I hope we say no.

[Aim Here]

12 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

They'd be one good season from the championship.  And they'd be one of the favourites to so, they wouldn't be in a current league one.

Except that even if they manage to get into the "Championship" in that season, they'll likely get papped out immediately afterwards because there's 4-6 teams getting relegated out of 14 that year.

And if they don't get into it in that season, the league reverts to 12-10-10-10 so they could easily spend the whole time in the bottom tier, despite actually getting promoted this season. How's that for being unfairly punished by the coronavirus? Temporary reconstruction is a shockingly bad idea.

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Aim Here