Ian38018 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Vandy said: It would mean more money for full time clubs to keep players in full time employment. Part time football has its place but those clubs shouldn’t be deciding what happens in the professional game. I get your second point - "Tail wagging the dog, and all that" - but do you really think the money is significant? Arbroath (Sorry, should be Montrose) received £64,000 for winning League Two a couple of years back. I cannot imagine that would keep many players in full-time employment if divvied up between (let's say) 22 Full-time clubs. The top Scottish clubs all need to learn to live within their means - a number do, I acknowledge - but snatching the buttons paid out to the likes of Albion Rovers and Cowdenbeath ain't the answer. Edited May 27, 2020 by Ian38018 Wrong team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, GorgieRoad said: Why should we care about anyone else? Ann's document is clearly about self preservation (not the way I would have gone about it, would have tried to be more subtle about it) but in the end it shouldn't be our job to draw up plans to save other clubs, or indeed Scottish Football. That's the SPFL's job and this whole shambles has made it clear that's not going to happen. So if it's clearly about self-preservation, why the half-arsed 'we want this to be for everyone's survival' comments in the first place? She should state her fucking case and move on. Don't hide behind some sort of faux-altruism over the sake of the Scottish game. I'd have more respect for her if she'd came out and went 'no f**k everyone else affected, you're shafting us....we want our place back and don't care how many small clubs we need to step over to get there' as at least then, she'd have actually proposed what she meant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theauldyin Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, GorgieRoad said: Why should we care about anyone else? Ann's document is clearly about self preservation (not the way I would have gone about it, would have tried to be more subtle about it) but in the end it shouldn't be our job to draw up plans to save other clubs, or indeed Scottish Football. That's the SPFL's job and this whole shambles has made it clear that's not going to happen. but in the end she only drawing up plans to save hearts, not to save Scottish football 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandy Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Ian38018 said: I get your second point - "Tail wagging the dog, and all that" - but do you really think the money is significant? Arbroath received £64,000 for winning League Two a couple of years back. I cannot imagine that would keep many players in full-time employment if divvied up between (let's say) 22 Full-time clubs. The top Scottish clubs all need to learn to live within their means - a number do, I acknowledge - but snatching the buttons paid out to the likes of Albion Rovers and Cowdenbeath ain't the answer. Something like £1.2 million is shared out to part time SPFL clubs yet Lowland,Highland,EoSL,SoSL and the new WoSFL will get zero. Why should these part time clubs share cash thats generated by the full time game and not the rest of the part timers who after all are just the same as them? -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Pub League Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Vandy said: Something like £1.2 million is shared out to part time SPFL clubs yet Lowland,Highland,EoSL,SoSL and the new WoSFL will get zero. Why should these part time clubs share cash thats generated by the full time game and not the rest of the part timers who after all are just the same as them? Well the part time clubs are the same as the full time clubs in that they are all football clubs so why should the full time clubs get their grubby little protuberances on the part time money? Sometimes when you get yourself in a hole, stop digging. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandy Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Junior Pub League said: Well the part time clubs are the same as the full time clubs in that they are all football clubs so why should the full time clubs get their grubby little protuberances on the part time money? Sometimes when you get yourself in a hole, stop digging. It’s not the part time clubs that generate the money that’s why! What tv company would pay to put Elgin v Albion Rovers on? Who would sponsor the bottom two leagues and for how much on their own? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgieRoad Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: If you're wanting to reconstruct the entire league format just to save yourselves from relegation, then yes, you need to make it beneficial to more than just Hearts. As it happens, you have not. As I said, I don't agree with the way Ann Budge went about that, djchapsticks actually gets it spot on below, it's a halfway house where should have either nailed our colours to the mast and went the whole f**k you route or tried to be a bit more subtle in how we worked in a solution without making it all about us. 22 minutes ago, Sparticus said: You wont be surprised when this gets booted out and you have to play in the championship next season then? That's your level based on sporting merit. Yes, I expect us to be in the Championship next season. No, I don't think it's based on sporting merit in a 38 game league. We probably would have gone down as we were horseshit, but we'll never know. 17 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: So if it's clearly about self-preservation, why the half-arsed 'we want this to be for everyone's survival' comments in the first place? She should state her fucking case and move on. Don't hide behind some sort of faux-altruism over the sake of the Scottish game. I'd have more respect for her if she'd came out and went 'no f**k everyone else affected, you're shafting us....we want our place back and don't care how many small clubs we need to step over to get there' as at least then, she'd have actually proposed what she meant. I agree, I'd actually have rather we just went the full 'f**k everyone else' route as although we're at the forefront of self preservation at the moment, let's not pretend for a second the every other club isn't doing exactly the same. Honestly find the holier than thou argument from both sides (whether it be about 'sporting integrity' or 'saving clubs from extinction') cringe as f**k. 16 minutes ago, theauldyin said: but in the end she only drawing up plans to save hearts, not to save Scottish football Why should she draw up plans to save Scottish football? There's a group of people earning a good amount of money at the SPFL that should be doing exactly that. Edited May 27, 2020 by GorgieRoad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Vandy said: It’s not the part time clubs that generate the money that’s why! What tv company would pay to put Elgin v Albion Rovers on? Who would sponsor the bottom two leagues and for how much on their own? If we only care about which clubs the TV companies are interested in there would be a two team league. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Pub League Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Vandy said: It’s not the part time clubs that generate the money that’s why! What tv company would pay to put Elgin v Albion Rovers on? Who would sponsor the bottom two leagues and for how much on their own? TV only wants the bigotfest, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen dont generate any money - it all comes from outside broadcasters and sponsors wanting to attach themselves to the bigots so based on your pretty feeble argument I'm assuming they shouldnt be giving the TV money/sponsor money to the other full time clubs? Edited May 27, 2020 by Junior Pub League 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian38018 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Vandy said: Something like £1.2 million is shared out to part time SPFL clubs yet Lowland,Highland,EoSL,SoSL and the new WoSFL will get zero. Why should these part time clubs share cash thats generated by the full time game and not the rest of the part timers who after all are just the same as them? We don't have a "full time game". We have league clubs and non-league clubs. How each club construct their pay structure is up to them. Now I can see an argument for hoiking the current L1 and L2 clubs out into the current non-league structure. But, ultimately what would that achieve? Giving the remaining clubs perhaps another £20,000 a year to waste on foreign duds and diddy managers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blootoon87 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Something like £1.2 million is shared out to part time SPFL clubs yet Lowland,Highland,EoSL,SoSL and the new WoSFL will get zero. Why should these part time clubs share cash thats generated by the full time game and not the rest of the part timers who after all are just the same as them?The part time teams generate absolutely no income for the SPFL? Is that what you're suggesting? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandy Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Bully Wee Villa said: If we only care about which clubs the TV companies are interested in there would be a two team league. The Professional game is what sells. Part time clubs with a few hundred fans have their place as community clubs to bring players through. Strachan was right in criticising some part time clubs because they aren’t even community clubs! Dumbarton don’t even have a youth set up! Just 16 guys who turn up and play for a few quid in their spare time. -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 So? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandy Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said: 24 minutes ago, Vandy said: Something like £1.2 million is shared out to part time SPFL clubs yet Lowland,Highland,EoSL,SoSL and the new WoSFL will get zero. Why should these part time clubs share cash thats generated by the full time game and not the rest of the part timers who after all are just the same as them? The part time teams generate absolutely no income for the SPFL? Is that what you're suggesting? Virtually none. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Pub League Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Vandy said: Virtually none. No one outside of the Bigots generates income, should all 40 clubs be hunted? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandy Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, Ian38018 said: We don't have a "full time game". We have league clubs and non-league clubs. How each club construct their pay structure is up to them. Now I can see an argument for hoiking the current L1 and L2 clubs out into the current non-league structure. But, ultimately what would that achieve? Giving the remaining clubs perhaps another £20,000 a year to waste on foreign duds and diddy managers? That’s the point there should be a distinction between full time professional clubs and part time community clubs. Thats all Strachan was saying! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBank Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 So Budge's idea of being 'fair' is Hearts, shittiest team in the League, bottom or the form table and bottom of the League avoid deserved relegation. Cove, League leaders with the same points difference over a rival as Celtic, are relegated instead of crowned Champions and promoted. Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar are all relegated although none are bottom of their League, unlike Hearts. All lose substantial income due to unfair relegation. Stranraer, one of the teams she quoted in her 'unfair' shouting, is relegated as their position no longer supports Hearts fantasies. f**k off Budge. Get doon cheating Herts. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Wasn't sure about the benefits of reconstruction, but the Hearts fans on here have certainly talked me round with their concern for other clubs and selfless consideration of what's best for Scottish football. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Hearts finished bottom of the league so deserve to go down. I find it disgusting that they are trying to use the coronavirus outbreak as an excuse to avoid relegation. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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