League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 minutes ago, Green Day said:

Reconstruction is not technically dead chaps.

Dr Mrs Busy Businesswoman Budge has options to put to the members of the league today so the comedy continues at least for today.

What happens if she wins the day? Will we see Clyde and the other clubs disadvantaged by any plan spray out statements willy nilly and we see another week or so of total heids gone?

You can never say never but I suspect the scenario is thus;

Budge has pestered Hell out of everyone to continue the reconstruction debate. Someone has pointed out that today's meeting is happening and that she'll get the chance to raise any issues then, the same as every other club. If she uses that time to push her agenda that's up to her. However clubs can take or leave her proposal and if a few raise objections, no vote will be taken.

[Wilbur]

2 hours ago, The DA said:

 

Legal advice from Leslie Deans ?

[TonyFerrino]

2 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

You can never say never but I suspect the scenario is thus;

Budge has pestered Hell out of everyone to continue the reconstruction debate. Someone has pointed out that today's meeting is happening and that she'll get the chance to raise any issues then, the same as every other club. If she uses that time to push her agenda that's up to her. However clubs can take or leave her proposal and if a few raise objections, no vote will be taken.

It's probably on Zoom so they can just mute her and play Solitaire.  

[DA Baracus]

The Kelty Hearts one surely is the proverbial 'can of worms' for them? If they think they have a case, then surely said case is all about challenging the legality of calling the leagues.

However, that would surely mean challenging the legality of them being declared champions.

I know it's two different league organisations here, but their case seems to be dependent on some sort of fairness, and so would surely fall down pretty quickly on that basis on many levels, most notably them and Brora being declared champions and Brechin being declared team 42.

There's also the precedent of playoffs across the top 3 leagues being punted for understandable reasons.

So Kelty would have to surely have answers for the following questions in any such legal challenge:

- Who actually contests the playoffs for the LL and HL. Obviously they'll say themselves and Brora, but if their argument is that the season should not end (as the playoffs are part of the season) then the counter is why should they and Brora be the teams to contest it? 

- Who from League 2 do the winners play? Same arguments as above.

- When are these games played?

- What players are used for these games since many are about to be out of contract?

[bennett]

2 hours ago, The DA said:

 

Doesn't this decision from the spfl save Brechin from being relegated, the same Brechin whose chairman Kenneth Ferguson is on the spfl board?

 

Self interest again and making it up as they go along. 

 

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, bennett said:

Doesn't this decision from the spfl save Brechin from being relegated, the same Brechin whose chairman Kenneth Ferguson is on the spfl board?

 

Self interest again and making it up as they go along. 

 

Says a lot for Stewart Robertson that the Brechin chairman wields more influence on this process than him on the SPFL board.

Or...you're looking for a conspiracy that doesn't exist.

[bennett]

4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Says a lot for Stewart Robertson that the Brechin chairman wields more influence on this process than him on the SPFL board.

Or...you're looking for a conspiracy that doesn't exist.

It's all in plain sight, rather predictable. 

[Green Day]

11 minutes ago, bennett said:

Doesn't this decision from the spfl save Brechin from being relegated, the same Brechin whose chairman Kenneth Ferguson is on the spfl board?

 

Self interest again and making it up as they go along. 

 

Thats one way of looking at it, and certainly if Brechin were the only SPFL slub that avoided the possibility of a playoff, then you would have a lot of backing for that stance.

Another may be that the SPFL - in calling the lower leagues (and the Premiership today) - made decisions in conjunction with clubs that no playoffs would happen in any division.

While Brechin were in that Box Seat, there were at least two other board member clubs in danger of beign sucked into the playoff zone.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Green Day

[craigkillie]

12 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

The Kelty Hearts one surely is the proverbial 'can of worms' for them? If they think they have a case, then surely said case is all about challenging the legality of calling the leagues.

However, that would surely mean challenging the legality of them being declared champions.

I know it's two different league organisations here, but their case seems to be dependent on some sort of fairness, and so would surely fall down pretty quickly on that basis on many levels, most notably them and Brora being declared champions and Brechin being declared team 42.

There's also the precedent of playoffs across the top 3 leagues being punted for understandable reasons.

So Kelty would have to surely have answers for the following questions in any such legal challenge:

- Who actually contests the playoffs for the LL and HL. Obviously they'll say themselves and Brora, but if their argument is that the season should not end (as the playoffs are part of the season) then the counter is why should they and Brora be the teams to contest it? 

- Who from League 2 do the winners play? Same arguments as above.

- When are these games played?

- What players are used for these games since many are about to be out of contract?

 

It's about none of these things. The SPFL are responsible for their own play-offs (Premiership, Championship, League 1) and for the outcomes of those leagues, and it is up to them to decide how to declare the season. However, any changes to the League 2 play-off require agreement from the SFA, HL and LL.

Therefore Kelty's argument is nothing to do with finishing the season, but rather that the SPFL have changed the play-off arrangements (by cancelling it) contrary to the rules. They will argue that both they and Brora have been declared champions and put forward for these play-offs, therefore they SPFL do not have the power to unilaterally decide to scrap them for any reason.

[Coventry Saint]

12 minutes ago, bennett said:

Doesn't this decision from the spfl save Brechin from being relegated, the same Brechin whose chairman Kenneth Ferguson is on the spfl board?

 

Self interest again and making it up as they go along. 

 

Was it a decision or a vote?

[Dons_1988]

3 minutes ago, bennett said:

It's all in plain sight, rather predictable. 

All that's in plain sight is a set of circumstances that allow you to piece together a narrative that suits an agenda.

In a league made up of a mixture of clubs that will benefit/suffer from any decisions made, it stands to reason that the board will be made up of club representatives who benefit or suffer. If you asked all board members with skin in the game to leave the room for the decision making then it wouldn't have got very far at all.

But you know all this.

[The DA]

6 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

 

It's about none of these things. The SPFL are responsible for their own play-offs (Premiership, Championship, League 1) and for the outcomes of those leagues, and it is up to them to decide how to declare the season. However, any changes to the League 2 play-off require agreement from the SFA, HL and LL.

Therefore Kelty's argument is nothing to do with finishing the season, but rather that the SPFL have changed the play-off arrangements (by cancelling it) contrary to the rules. They will argue that both they and Brora have been declared champions and put forward for these play-offs, therefore they SPFL do not have the power to unilaterally decide to scrap them for any reason.

Thanks, craigkillie.  That's new info for me and puts a whole new complexion on their argument.

I wonder whether the SPFL clubs were fully aware of the implications of their resolution.

I still think that, if this ever gets to court, the judge will dismiss it as being an insurmountable problem during the pandemic.

 

[DA Baracus]

15 minutes ago, Green Day said:

Thats one way of looking at it, and certainly if Brechin were the only SPFL slub that avoided the possibility of a playoff, then you would have a lot of backing for that stance.

Another may be that the SPFL - in calling the lower leagues (and the Premiership today) - made decisions in conjunction with clubs that no playoffs would happen in any division.

While Brechin were in that Box Seat, there were at least two other board member clubs in danger of beign sucked into the playoff zone.

Nah, big bad bullying Brechin wield unlimited power here because one of the SPFL board members is the Brechin chairman.

Somehow he controls the entire board and is planning to crown Brechin champions of the Premiership because what he says goes and he has the only say on things.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

24 minutes ago, bennett said:

Self interest again and making it up as they go along. 

Almost every club in this saga is motivated by narrow self interest

Rangers are an exception

Their efforts to stop Celtic being proclaimed champions appear to be motivated more by spite than self interest

Whether that's morally better or worse is unclear. 

 

 

[Green Day]

1 minute ago, The DA said:

Thanks, craigkillie.  That's new info for me and puts a whole new complexion on their argument.

I wonder whether the SPFL clubs were fully aware of the implications of their resolution.

I still think that, if this ever gets to court, the judge will dismiss it as being an insurmountable problem during the pandemic.

 

Remember that the mechanics of the playoff are still in place. 

The issue is that the SPFL has decided not to put up a candidate for the playoff.

However, the champions of the HL and LL have not yet played each other so there is a lot more than just the SPFL candidate that is up in the air.

They also cant ignore that they were handed the league title, and there has been no relegation from their division, should this go any legal route.

[craigkillie]

30 minutes ago, The DA said:

Thanks, craigkillie.  That's new info for me and puts a whole new complexion on their argument.

I wonder whether the SPFL clubs were fully aware of the implications of their resolution.

I still think that, if this ever gets to court, the judge will dismiss it as being an insurmountable problem during the pandemic.

 

I agree with you here. It is very easy for the SPFL to show that it was impossible (in fact literally illegal) to hold these matches.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Snafu said:

They were declared champions on the 13th April.

Yes, which allows them to enter a play off.

All play offs are cancelled since we cant play any games.

Kelty complaining they dont get promotion is also them arguing that the season should be continued until the games are played, which means Kelty arent champions. 

They cant have it both ways.

[Pet Jeden]

37 minutes ago, The DA said:

Thanks, craigkillie.  That's new info for me and puts a whole new complexion on their argument.

I wonder whether the SPFL clubs were fully aware of the implications of their resolution.

I still think that, if this ever gets to court, the judge will dismiss it as being an insurmountable problem during the pandemic.

 

This hitch wasn't hard to find - even I've seen it copied and pasted in a post. But what exactly makes you so confident that Doncaster will have made that crystal clear to the clubs in his board paper? The one where he declared there is no alternative? The one where he and McKenzie blocked Rangers attempt to put an alternative?

[jamamafegan]

Fingers crossed this thread is going to be banterrific when the SPFL declare Hearts down and no 14 team league 

[Green Day]

Just now, jamamafegan said:

Fingers crossed this thread is going to be banterrific when the SPFL declare Hearts down and no 14 team league 

Be even better if those happen then later on the SPFL "cave to the mighty Kelty" and allow a playoff anyway.