League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[RH33]

I’d appreciate if heart just took their medicine and ducked off before the league reconstruction politics gives dad an aneurism!

Theres much more important things going on in the world beyond Hearts having shite  sesason. 
 

Sense of proportion needed.

[Cornishman]

In the 'philosophy of the league style competition' it is accepted that there is no such thing as a league table until all matches in the league program; i.e. all have played each other once at home and once away in a traditional round-robin tourney; have been completed. Obviously, it's a bit different in the SPFL Premier due to their 'odd' schedule, but the point remains... there are no champions, no wooden-spoons and indeed, no other positions achieved until every planned match has been completed.

In effect, this means that any unfinished league season is naturally null and void. As much as I despise n&v, the philosophy is definite on this.

Another thing I want to mention is the argument that teams being elevated to higher divisions cause any teams already in those divisions some palpable harm. I guess that there's a truth in that these latter teams would no longer be playing matches versus the teams that they might've been playing otherwise, that'd likely have brought bigger supports with them.

However, also in that scenario, such teams swap that factor for the one in which they now likely become 'the big fish' within their newly created division, concommittant with a likely much improved playing record in a technically easier division. Which fact in itself likely draws a better average home support, due to those improved results.

The 'but we're effectively relegated to the bottom division' argument, while kinda true, is somewhat 'straw-man', as of course, their standing within their division is much improved & further proof against relegation to Tier 4. Further, they'd have greatly improved promotional chances (that itself will also build crowds) and with promotion they'd enter a Tier 2 division of rather easier average oppositional strength than before restructuring.

 

[PauloPerth]

 ^ That post reminds me of one of the Conservative party news conferences during the covid19 pandemic.

[craigkillie]

15 minutes ago, Cornishman said:

In the 'philosophy of the league style competition' it is accepted that there is no such thing as a league table until all matches in the league program; i.e. all have played each other once at home and once away in a traditional round-robin tourney; have been completed. Obviously, it's a bit different in the SPFL Premier due to their 'odd' schedule, but the point remains... there are no champions, no wooden-spoons and indeed, no other positions achieved until every planned match has been completed.

In effect, this means that any unfinished league season is naturally null and void. As much as I despise n&v, the philosophy is definite on this.

The completely made up philosophy that you've decided upon in your own head, you mean? There are precedents of league seasons in Scotland (and elsewhere) being considered completed despite all the fixtures not being played.

Edited May 17, 2020 by craigkillie

[Guest JTS98]

5 hours ago, craigkillie said:

The completely made up philosophy that you've decided upon in your own head, you mean? There are precedents of league seasons in Scotland (and elsewhere) being considered completed despite all the fixtures not being played.

That seems a pretty obtuse response to the previous poster's perfectly reasonable point.

It is a generally accepted philosophy that the season isn't finished till it's finished. We hear this constantly from fitba people. 'One game at a time, prizes aren't dished out in Month X'. 'We need to do better ,but there are still points to play for and we won't give up'. Etc.

Hardly something the previous poster 'has decided in his own head'.

Indeed, after their thirtieth league game last season, St Mirren's head coach had this to say.

"But it's still in our hands, we've a lot of big games ahead of us. Games that are going to look like this, have that level of edge that this had. But we've got to be smarter when we get into those games."

Of course Scotland has a precedent for this. From 80 years ago under a different governing body. I don't think we need to be bound to that.

Edited May 17, 2020 by JTS98

[PauloPerth]

13 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

That seems a pretty obtuse response to the previous poster's perfectly reasonable point.

It is a generally accepted philosophy that the season isn't finished till it's finished. We hear this constantly from fitba people. 'One game at a time, prizes aren't dished out in Month X'. 'We need to do better ,but there are still points to play for and we won't give up'. Etc.

Hardly something the previous poster 'has decided in his own head'.

Of course Scotland has a precedent for this. From 80 years ago under a different governing body. I don't think we need to be bound to that.

You are either enjoying killing time playing this long drawn out wind up, or you are genuinely a fucking lunatic.

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, PauloPerth said:

You are either enjoying killing time playing this long drawn out wind up, or you are genuinely a fucking lunatic.

I'm genuinely not sure what part of the quoted post you disagree with.

[djchapsticks]

51 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I do not have any account other than this one.

No idea who BonniePrinceCharlie is.

It's not me. I seldom red dot anybody. The only time I dish them out is for openly offensive posts. I certainly don't red dot posts on the basis of disagreeing with them. That's a weird thing to do on a discussion forum where the ability to reply is freely available.

Worrying about dots on a fitba forum is worrying behaviour. I've got my own pals who follow me around red dotting my posts.

Bizarre way to behave, bizarre thing to care about.

Ahhh, the Kraken awakes!

How's the hangover, mate?

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, djchapsticks said:

Ahhh, the Kraken awakes!

How's the hangover, mate?

Not had a drink for ages.

I've been for a run.

Look, you can choose to think I'm red dotting you if you like.

I actually quite enjoy the idea that you believe that to be the case, and since you brought it up, it must bother you.

But I'm not. Don't know what else to tell you.

I have this account only.

[Bohemian]

I think we should definitely null and void the season just so the zombies and Jambons can be happy.. 

Spoiler

 

[djchapsticks]

Just now, JTS98 said:

Not had a drink for ages.

I've been for a run.

Look, you can choose to think I'm red dotting you if you like.

I actually quite enjoy the idea that you believe that to be the case, and since you brought it up, it must bother you.

But I'm not. Don't know what else to tell you.

I have this account only.

He's not red dotting me made, my posts are an exemplary cross section of tact, reasoning and sensibility, as you well know but won't openly admit to. He's got no good reason to.

He magically shows up in your wake and starts dishing out negative reactions to loads of people who interact with you, though. It's actually quite sweet.

If he's not you, then I think someone fancies you. 

[johnnydun]

8 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

That seems a pretty obtuse response to the previous poster's perfectly reasonable point.

It is a generally accepted philosophy that the season isn't finished till it's finished. We hear this constantly from fitba people. 'One game at a time, prizes aren't dished out in Month X'. 'We need to do better ,but there are still points to play for and we won't give up'. Etc.

Hardly something the previous poster 'has decided in his own head'.

Of course Scotland has a precedent for this. From 80 years ago under a different governing body. I don't think we need to be bound to that.

The rules state that the season is finished when the board decide it's finished.

It's finished.

You're bottom.

Get doon.

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, djchapsticks said:

He's not red dotting me made, my posts are an exemplary cross section of tact, reasoning and sensibility, as you well know but won't openly admit to. He's got no good reason to.

He magically shows up in your wake and starts dishing out negative reactions to loads of people who interact with you, though. It's actually quite sweet.

If he's not you, then I think someone fancies you. 

I have absolutely no idea.

The dotting system is interesting. I, like most people I'd imagine, green dot things I find funny or occasionally things I agree strongly with. I'm especially likely to do it with opinions I agree with that go against the grain.

But I don't see the dots as something to be used as an arguing tool. What's the value in red dotting someone because you disagree with them? Seems a weak thing to do when you can respond and make your case.

Anyway. Life has enough worries. Dots on a website shouldn't be a concern to anyone. However, your previous post has led me to some interesting reading on the topic of the psychology of likes and dislikes on social media. Interesting stuff.

[Jacksgranda]

5 hours ago, Cornishman said:

In the 'philosophy of the league style competition' it is accepted that there is no such thing as a league table until all matches in the league program; i.e. all have played each other once at home and once away in a traditional round-robin tourney; have been completed. Obviously, it's a bit different in the SPFL Premier due to their 'odd' schedule, but the point remains... there are no champions, no wooden-spoons and indeed, no other positions achieved until every planned match has been completed.

In effect, this means that any unfinished league season is naturally null and void. As much as I despise n&v, the philosophy is definite on this.

Another thing I want to mention is the argument that teams being elevated to higher divisions cause any teams already in those divisions some palpable harm. I guess that there's a truth in that these latter teams would no longer be playing matches versus the teams that they might've been playing otherwise, that'd likely have brought bigger supports with them.

However, also in that scenario, such teams swap that factor for the one in which they now likely become 'the big fish' within their newly created division, concommittant with a likely much improved playing record in a technically easier division. Which fact in itself likely draws a better average home support, due to those improved results.

The 'but we're effectively relegated to the bottom division' argument, while kinda true, is somewhat 'straw-man', as of course, their standing within their division is much improved & further proof against relegation to Tier 4. Further, they'd have greatly improved promotional chances (that itself will also build crowds) and with promotion they'd enter a Tier 2 division of rather easier average oppositional strength than before restructuring.

 

Two o' clock in the morning you wrote that. F*** me. (Unless you're on shifts, of course.)

[Jacksgranda]

4 hours ago, JTS98 said:

That seems a pretty obtuse response to the previous poster's perfectly reasonable point.

It is a generally accepted philosophy that the season isn't finished till it's finished. We hear this constantly from fitba people. 'One game at a time, prizes aren't dished out in Month X'. 'We need to do better ,but there are still points to play for and we won't give up'. Etc.

Hardly something the previous poster 'has decided in his own head'.

Of course Scotland has a precedent for this. From 80 years ago under a different governing body. I don't think we need to be bound to that.

1959,1965 and 1986 spring to mind.

[Guest JTS98]

5 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

1959,1965 and 1986 spring to mind.

Well, quite.

[Guest JTS98]

11 hours ago, FTOF said:

Bear in mind that St.Mirren were on an upward trajectory, and were actually getting significantly better due to the quality of our January window signings.

 

St Mirren had lost their last two games without scoring a goal, defeats to St Johnstone and Kilmarnock. They had had a brief run of picking up five points from 3 games, but had then gone back to 0 points and 0 goals from 2 games.

Ultimately, they had picked up five points from the previous 33 available to them. 0 of the last 6.

Their form over the last 11 games was worse than the 11 games prior to that. Their form had got worse.

No sign whatsoever of a side about to lose only one game in their next eight. No evidence of that kind of recovery whatsoever. To suggest otherwise is simply being wise after the event.

You can easily make comparisons with Hearts' run of beating Rangers twice and beating Hibs before reverting to losing.

For comparison, Hearts had taken 10 points from the previous 33 and had taken 4 points from their last three matches. Performances against Aberdeen and Ross County had stabilised things, we'd played well in spells at St Johnstone and had been genuinely good against Rangers and against Hibs just the week previously. Hearts were showing clear signs of life.

Hearts were in better form than St Mirren had been the year previously and form had notably improved since Christmas.

In any case, form isn't really what this is about. But a few people have tried to go down the form route, as if St Mirren had been flying in 2019 and Hearts were dropping like a stone in spring 2020. The facts just don't support that view.

Edited May 17, 2020 by JTS98

[RandomGuy.]

Sounds like @JTS98, and his multiple essays on the subject, is definitely 100% not someone who'll have a complete heads gone about being red dotted constantly.

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Sounds like @JTS98, and his multiple essays on the subject, is definitely 100% not someone who'll have a complete heads gone about being red dotted constantly.

I actually made two posts about it in response to an open accusation of being a red-dotter.

But you're never one to bother with facts.

Unlike you, I have no interest in such things. Carry on red-dotting away. About 3 in a minute there.

 

[LIVIFOREVER]

25 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

St Mirren had lost their last two games without scoring a goal, defeats to St Johnstone and Kilmarnock. They had had a brief run of picking up five points from 3 games, but had then gone back to 0 points and 0 goals from 2 games.

Ultimately, they had picked up five points from the previous 33 available to them. 0 of the last 6.

Their form over the last 11 games was worse than the 11 games prior to that. Their form had got worse.

No sign whatsoever of a side about to lose only one game in their next eight. No evidence of that kind of recovery whatsoever. To suggest otherwise is simply being wise after the event.

You can easily make comparisons with Hearts' run of beating Rangers twice and beating Hibs before reverting to losing.

For comparison, Hearts had taken 10 points from the previous 33 and had taken 4 points from their last three matches. Performances against Aberdeen and Ross County had stabilised things, we'd played well in spells at St Johnstone and had been genuinely good against Rangers and against Hibs just the week previously. Hearts were showing clear signs of life.

Hearts were in better form than St Mirren had been the year previously and form had notably improved since Christmas.

In any case, form isn't really what this is about. But a few people have tried to go down the form route, as if St Mirren had been flying in 2019 and Hearts were dropping like a stone in spring 2020. The facts just don't support that view.

Cheers, I needed something to cure my insomniaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa