League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[Ric]

Just now, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

OK. So to be clear you would see 14,14,14 as an unreasonable temporary outcome?

Remember, Ann Budge was advocating clubs like yours should not exist within the professional structure.

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

Just now, Ric said:

Remember, Ann Budge was advocating clubs like yours should not exist within the professional structure.

I know and frankly that sort of attitude probably exists elsewhere hence my 'concern'. I can see the three Div1 clubs being shafted to protect clubs like Hearts.

[Guest JTS98]

6 minutes ago, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

OK. So to be clear you would see 14,14,14 as an unreasonable temporary outcome?

It's not my first choice, no.

I think there are numerous options on the table. Or that at least should be. Some of which I haven't heard mentioned.

1) Promote nobody/relegate nobody.

2) A neutral venue / 2-leg play-off between Hearts and Dundee United for promotion. And apply down the leagues.

3) An expanded play-off including all the clubs in play-off/relegation positions with weighting given to current league positions.

4) 14/14/14 based on the consequences for the clubs that lose out. Is Clyde's pain at being put into the bottom flight unfairly as severe as what other clubs are currently looking at? Maybe yes, maybe no, but let's get an answer to that.

5) Any other reasonable regrouping of the divisions.

My point is that there are more options available to us than just saying 'You're bottom with 8 games to go, so you have to go down'. I don't think that's a reasonable thing to do.

ETA: The numbering system in my post does not indicate preference. Just ordering for ease of reading.

Edited May 16, 2020 by JTS98

[Guest JTS98]

8 minutes ago, Ric said:

Go and look at the top of this thread, it's called: League Reconstruction 20/21 season

Now go and re-read my post you quoted.

You seem unkeen to answer the question.

I'll give you another chance.

Go for it. Remember, other people can see you not answering.

[YER SISTERS YER MAW]

I can't quote you because of the way you've replied to my post, but a couple of obvious things stick out.
1) As a football fan, how do you feel about the general concept of Club X being relegated based on a season that was never finished and that was curtailed at relatively short notice? Are you genuinely absolutely cool with that?
2) I think you've chosen to misinterpret my use of the word arbitrary. It makes perfect sense in as much as that this could have happened at any other week this season or in any other season. This is 'arbitrary'. In a season that was meant to have 38 games we are now saying that 30 is fine.
3) Yes, it's true that there was not a global pandemic in those seasons. But that's exactly my point. Nobody has ever suggested saving Hearts from relegation in any other season. The fact it is even being discussed this year is because of the exceptional circumstances. I find it hard to believe that if St Mirren, or Accies, or Motherwell, or St Johnstone were bottom of the league you wouldn't be able to see the unfairness of relegation and all that entails being based on a season that was shortened.

I doubt any of the other clubs you have just mentioned would have outlined a plan for temporary league reconstruction. A permanent league restructuring, probably yes.

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Green Day said:

I know the Sportsound guys are doing a lot of chat about the Premiership, but it is a fact that the League 2 clubs have already decided to vote en bloc for 14-14-14 but as a permanent reconstruction.

I struggle with the notion that this has legs but its incredible that it hasn't been put to bed yet.

All for Hearts..........................

Away doon in the Championship at Tynecastle Park

There's a wee football club whose owner's a nark

They've f****** up the league by playing like farts

And ther's nae other team to compare with the Hearts

Hearts, Hearts girnin' auld Hearts

It's doon in the Championship they bide

The laugh o' the toon are the boys in maroon

And the've run oot o' places to hide

 

[18May1991]

What’s the silly old biddy up to now? Can the other club chairman not just tell her to wind her neck in and give us all peace. 
Hearts, just f**k off down quietly please. You’re utter shite and were going down, full season or not. 

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, YER SISTERS YER MAW said:

14 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I can't quote you because of the way you've replied to my post, but a couple of obvious things stick out.
1) As a football fan, how do you feel about the general concept of Club X being relegated based on a season that was never finished and that was curtailed at relatively short notice? Are you genuinely absolutely cool with that?
2) I think you've chosen to misinterpret my use of the word arbitrary. It makes perfect sense in as much as that this could have happened at any other week this season or in any other season. This is 'arbitrary'. In a season that was meant to have 38 games we are now saying that 30 is fine.
3) Yes, it's true that there was not a global pandemic in those seasons. But that's exactly my point. Nobody has ever suggested saving Hearts from relegation in any other season. The fact it is even being discussed this year is because of the exceptional circumstances. I find it hard to believe that if St Mirren, or Accies, or Motherwell, or St Johnstone were bottom of the league you wouldn't be able to see the unfairness of relegation and all that entails being based on a season that was shortened.

I doubt any of the other clubs you have just mentioned would have outlined a plan for temporary league reconstruction. A permanent league restructuring, probably yes.

I've been very critical of how the Hearts board have handled this and that's one issue I'd agree with. Doesn't change the fact that relegating anyone with 8 games left is basically wrong.

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

1 minute ago, JTS98 said:

It's not my first choice, no.

I think there are numerous options on the table. Or that at least should be. Some of which I haven't heard mentioned.

1) Promote nobody/relegate nobody.

2) A neutral venue / 2-leg play-off between Hearts and Dundee United for promotion. And apply down the leagues.

3) An expanded play-off including all the clubs in play-off/relegation positions with weighting given to current league positions.

4) 14/14/14 based on the consequences for the clubs that lose out. Is Clyde's pain at being put into the bottom flight unfairly as severe as what other clubs are currently looking at? Maybe yes, maybe no, but let's get an answer to that.

5) Any other reasonable regrouping of the divisions.

My point is that there are more options available to us than just saying 'You're bottom with 8 games to go, so you have to go down'. I don't think that's a reasonable thing to do.

For Clyde to lose say £100k in lost attendances, sponsorship and commercial income in that league could be c 30% of our income. I would say that is a pretty horrendous figure and stands up against what others would lose. However, it isn't just about the £ you lose. We were not bottom or anywhere near it. You were. There is no comparison. We and others should not be suffering ANY Pain ,beyond what is happening already.

[Guest SJP79]

14-10-10-10 Permanent 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by SJP79

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

For Clyde to lose say £100k in lost attendances, sponsorship and commercial income in that league could be c 30% of our income. I would say that is a pretty horrendous figure and stands up against what others would lose. However, it isn't just about the £ you lose. We were not bottom or anywhere near it. You were. There is no comparison. We and others should not be suffering ANY Pain ,beyond what is happening already.

I don't disagree.

My point all along has been that the clubs should share the pain around instead of certain clubs having to carry the can. Hearts stand to lose 30% of their annual revenue.

What's happening at the moment is that the other clubs are voting to protect themselves and let a small number of clubs take 100% of the hit. I think that's wrong. I think the football community should share the burden.

Edited May 16, 2020 by JTS98

[Ric]

3 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

You seem unkeen to answer the question.

I have answered. I'm sorry you cannot accept that.

 

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, Ric said:

I have answered. I'm sorry you cannot accept that.

 

I don't see where you have.

Indulge me and just answer again in a reply to this post.

Do you think St Mirren's board would just have accepted relegation with no argument? Your previous post didn't confirm that either way. It made a very specific point that didn't answer my question.

So, yes or no, would the St Mirren board have just accepted it?

And, as a follow up, considering the fact that St Mirren actually stayed up, how would you feel about that decision?

Edited May 16, 2020 by JTS98

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, SJP79 said:

14-10-10-10 

 

That might be the one.

[Ric]

Just now, JTS98 said:

I don't see where you have.

Indulge me and just answer again in a reply to this post.

Do you think St Mirren's board would just have accepted relegation with no argument? Your previous post didn't confirm that either way. It made a very specific point that didn't answer my question.

So, yes or no, would the St Mirren board have just accepted it?

And, as a follow up, considering the fact that St Mirren actually stayed up, how would you feel about that decision?

You simply keep on repeating this false equivalence. Repeating it doesn't make it any less flawed of an argument.

Raising concerns about relegation does not equate to demanding temporary league reconstruction and threatening legal action if it's not put into place.

At this point you are either unwilling or unable to accept that.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

"Debate me you cowards!" I mewl serenely

[Guest SJP79]

3 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

That might be the one.

Its the least damaging, Kelty and Brora up

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

You simply keep on repeating this false equivalence. Repeating it doesn't make it any less flawed of an argument.

Raising concerns about relegation does not equate to demanding temporary league reconstruction and threatening legal action if it's not put into place.

At this point you are either unwilling or unable to accept that.

It's not a false comparison at all. I'm asking you for a direct comparison.

Do you believe the St Mirren board would just sit and accept relegation quietly in this scenario?

What form that takes is up for debate, but you seem to just be dodging the question.

You've repeatedly refused to answer a yes/no question.

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

"Debate me you cowards!" I mewl serenely

Again, sir, I'd suggest that if you believe discussion cannot be had by anyone other than people frothing at the mouth, that is your problem.

This is a forum. Forums are for discussion.

Join in or be quiet.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Just now, SJP79 said:

Its the least damaging, Kelty and Brora up

It's the only one that delivers no losers. But as many point out, the top tier might've sent Budge for a long stand or tartan paint to get her out the room for a while.