South Region Challenge Cup 2020-21

[Bestsinceslicebread]

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Time will tell on what happens this season due to COVID, but the significance of WoS clubs being able to retain SJFA membership should not be underestimated because it means that the SJC is no longer exclusive to a separate grade of clubs.

That means that the senior grade can now potentially proceed to assimilate the SJC into its fixture calendar in the years ahead as Scotland's FA Trophy equivalent, if that's what most of the clubs involved would prefer to have happen.

I would expect there to be eventually a Scottish cup for all the teams from tier 5 and below to enter.
Whether that's the trophy that was the SJC or a new one who knows, I think and hope there will be an all in Scottish 

[Cyclizine]

9 hours ago, Dev said:

There isn't even a Cup Competition in the Highland zone which equates to the SCC.

The national cup competition for the historically senior clubs in the north (and south for that matter) is the Scottish Cup. The SFA North Challenge Cup was binned after a couple of seasons due to lack of interest (it duplicates other competitions), fixture congestion and clubs losing money playing in it once the SFA funding stopped.

I don't think many north clubs will be champing at the bit to enter a new national cup competition for non-league clubs unless there's some incentive to do it: i.e. prizemoney. It's a non starter if clubs lose money entering it, like when most NRJFA clubs enter the SJC.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Cyclizine

[Whittlets vic]

Yes we should as thats why you always want the big teams in the cups. Especially talbot that money helps us massively

In the same breath if we turned up with 10 fans and talbot have 1000 should we get half the gate?

[Blackie Gold]

6 hours ago, andy25 said:

Ah here he comes..

 

 

 

Two quotes from Darvel fans, one disrespecting two association clubs, and another accusing a club of theft. I hope they get papped out the competition early doors.

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

The national cup competition for the historically senior clubs in the north (and south for that matter) is the Scottish Cup. The SFA North Challenge Cup was binned after a couple of seasons due to lack of interest (it duplicates other competitions), fixture congestion and clubs losing money playing in it once the SFA funding stopped.

I don't think many north clubs will be champing at the bit to enter a new national cup competition for non-league clubs unless there's some incentive to do it: i.e. prizemoney. It's a non starter if clubs lose money entering it, like when most NRJFA clubs enter the SJC.

Any feel for what would happen if/when the NCL & North Juniors sign up as feeders? A revival of the North Challenge Cup, expansion of the Highland League Cup, or would relegated HL clubs be happy with the Scottish/NoS or Aberdeenshire Cups/Whatever lower league cups they'd now enter.

[Cyclizine]

16 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Any feel for what would happen if/when the NCL & North Juniors sign up as feeders? A revival of the North Challenge Cup, expansion of the Highland League Cup, or would relegated HL clubs be happy with the Scottish/NoS or Aberdeenshire Cups/Whatever lower league cups they'd now enter.

I don't claim to speak for any club, but I'm not convinced there'll be any clamour to resurrect the North Challenge Cup, at least in the short term. 

Any relegated club (although how likely relegation is in the near future is anyone's guess) would retain membership of either the North of Scotland or Aberdeenshire FAs, so be able to play in the district cups.

North Caley FA clubs can already play in the North of Scotland Cup and they have a plethora of cup of their own. I'm less au fait with the aspirations of the North Juniors, but they have their own regional and district cups that I'd imagine they'd retain.

This is probably off topic though, given this is the South Challenge Cup thread!

Edited September 6, 2020 by Cyclizine

[Andy groundhopper]

Now that the Junior Cup is a mere shadow of its historic self, think most clubs will encompass the competition before long. Looking at the draw and the clubs involved, it looks a cracking set up with the new West clubs taking on the LL and EOS giants ! Now that this cup has grown in numbers , give it a few seasons and hopefully it will get the respect. Any cup with 6-7 rounds up to the final is worth winning, especially if all clubs enter at the 1st round stage.There, can't be anymore positive !

[newcastle broon]

1 hour ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Now that the Junior Cup is a mere shadow of its historic self, think most clubs will encompass the competition before long. Looking at the draw and the clubs involved, it looks a cracking set up with the new West clubs taking on the LL and EOS giants ! Now that this cup has grown in numbers , give it a few seasons and hopefully it will get the respect. Any cup with 6-7 rounds up to the final is worth winning, especially if all clubs enter at the 1st round stage.There, can't be anymore positive !

This is a great cup but the top Lowland clubs might see it differently. Only one prize they're after now.

[jimbaxters]

8 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

This is a great cup but the top Lowland clubs might see it differently. Only one prize they're after now.

That's a good point. Was thinking about the top WoSFL clubs only bothered about the legue but suppose the LL lads will be the same. 

[Talbot supporter]

More difficult cup to win than the SJC but might not attract same amount of fans? , especially for the final or in a few years it might gather pace?

[FairWeatherFan]

23 minutes ago, Talbot supporter said:

More difficult cup to win than the SJC but might not attract same amount of fans? , especially for the final or in a few years it might gather pace?

Gather pace. It's not the same competition it once was. 2016-17 there were 41 clubs and for 2020-21 it'll be 142. In the past they've used fairly big SPFL grounds for finals (Tynecastle, Palmerston, and Falkirk) and i'd expect that to be the norm from now on.

The final will be seen more as the showpiece end of season event and that will draw more neutrals than before, but it's all going to be down to the clubs bringing a crowd.

 

[Bestsinceslicebread]

19 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Gather pace. It's not the same competition it once was. 2016-17 there were 41 clubs and for 2020-21 it'll be 142. In the past they've used fairly big SPFL grounds for finals (Tynecastle, Palmerston, and Falkirk) and i'd expect that to be the norm from now on.

The final will be seen more as the showpiece end of season event and that will draw more neutrals than before, but it's all going to be down to the clubs bringing a crowd.

 

I agree with everything you said but right now, we are not in a normal season. Covid has instilled itself in everything we do, thus less fans or no fans until its safe to do so, so any point regarding this cup or the league whether positive or negative can't really be justified. Everything is hypothetical in regards to the Cup or league but personally, I think it will grow and entice more people to teams/clubs and I believe the Cup will be a showpice event with every team across central and southern Scotland entered into in who participate in the Pyramid system.
 

Although if there ever was to be a Scottish non league cup, that could take over but not sure how most Northern teams would feel about it, would they enter it

[LongTimeLurker]

6 hours ago, Talbot supporter said:

More difficult cup to win than the SJC but might not attract same amount of fans? , especially for the final or in a few years it might gather pace?

Without Scottish in the name and a big event being made of it in final venue and live national broadcaster terms, it's difficult to see the SCC ever being anything more than an afterthought compared to the LL, WoS and EoS league titles and associated promotion playoffs. 

[parsforlife]

57 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Without Scottish in the name and a big event being made of it in final venue and live national broadcaster terms, it's difficult to see the SCC ever being anything more than an afterthought compared to the LL, WoS and EoS league titles and associated promotion playoffs. 

I can’t see any non-league cup being the big draw anymore. Scottish cup games and promotion play-offs/end of season title deciders are going to be the big draws.

That will probably mean the biggest game of the season won’t have as many fans at it.  But there’s going to be far more games over  the season that attract interest  outside of what happens week to week.  Overall the non-league game will be better for it.

Edited September 8, 2020 by parsforlife

[rncaa]

Ladies and gentlemen boys and girls the new soccer shield thingy challenge cup trophy .

 

Edit 

 

Please note the final this year if we somehow get to the final it will be at mid annandale sports complex cage. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by rncaa

[WilliamBragg]

16 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I can’t see any non-league cup being the big draw anymore. Scottish cup games and promotion play-offs/end of season title deciders are going to be the big draws.

That will probably mean the biggest game of the season won’t have as many fans at it.  But there’s going to be far more games over  the season that attract interest  outside of what happens week to week.  Overall the non-league game will be better for it.

In most football at any level the league is always more important. 

Juniors was probably an anomaly that the cup was the Holy Grail.

No doubt due to it was the only national tournament we had for many years.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, rncaa said:

Ladies and gentlemen boys and girls the new soccer shield thingy challenge cup trophy .

 

Edit 

 

Please note the final this year if we somehow get to the final it will be at mid annandale sports complex cage. 

 

Never seen someone as excited for a new season as you

Edited September 8, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[LongTimeLurker]

18 hours ago, parsforlife said:

I can’t see any non-league cup being the big draw anymore. Scottish cup games and promotion play-offs/end of season title deciders are going to be the big draws...

Meanwhile in England they still seem to be able to have the FA Trophy and FA Vase continuing the traditions of the old FA Amateur Cup, so it's definitely possible to still do something a bit more prestigious than a regional SCC is likely to wind up being in a pyramid setting. A high profile national cup run can help keep the season interesting for clubs that are not featuring where the league title is concerned.

Some grade politics obsessed people are determined to kill off the SJC when it is still able to regularly attract 5000+ to its final and has a history stretching back to 1886. Wanton vandalism comes to mind as a way to describe that. A more sensible approach would be to finally move beyond all the junior vs senior nonsense and find a way to assimilate the SJC into the new way of doing things.

Take what was good from what went before on the junior side of things (the SJC but minus the replays and endless weeks of postponements), get rid of what was bad (reinstatement, no fixture lists and no floodlights) and make something better in other words.

[FairWeatherFan]

49 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Some grade politics obsessed people are determined to kill off the SJC when it is still able to regularly attract 5000+ to its final and has a history stretching back to 1886. Wanton vandalism comes to mind as a way to describe that. A more sensible approach would be to finally move beyond all the junior vs senior nonsense and find a way to assimilate the SJC into the new way of doing things.

As you're often happy to point out these days the Junior Cup exists "within the pyramid" now. Think you're taking the opinions of people on a football forum rather seriously when the people involved in running the game have show they aren't trying to kill it off.

You're not going to see a true non-league Scottish Cup until the Highland League clubs are involved. Especially once there is a pyramid in the North that will see the best teams filter into the Highland League. Anything else is a glorified Junior Cup or South Challenge Cup.

[Talbot supporter]

As you're often happy to point out these days the Junior Cup exists "within the pyramid" now. Think you're taking the opinions of people on a football forum rather seriously when the people involved in running the game have show they aren't trying to kill it off.
You're not going to see a true non-league Scottish Cup until the Highland League clubs are involved. Especially once there is a pyramid in the North that will see the best teams filter into the Highland League. Anything else is a glorified Junior Cup or South Challenge Cup.

The highland league clubs were never in the SJC anyway so a glorified SJC would be a harder cup to win and should be more appealing than the SJC. But will it?