West of Scotland Football, What Is The Future?

[Robert James]

18 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Be interesting if/when the English government make some statements about grassroots sport returning - they only care about the so called 'elite' at the moment. What do the clubs feel, are they worried about testing or the whole return ? I don't get to hear, read much from the clubs themselves. Hopefully the WOSFL will get going asap, and we can all agree the move to Senior was the right decision.

But have the West Juniors now actually transferred to the West senior league, or are we waiting for an official date/AGM  when these clubs  leave the juniors ?

Currently, the Non League Scotland website still regards them as being junior clubs.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Robert James
post sent in error before completed

[glensmad]

But have the West Juniors now actually transferred to the West senior league, or are we waiting for an official date/AGM  when these clubs  leave the juniors ?
Currently, the Non League Scotland website still regards them as being junior clubs.

SJFA membership will end this weekend for those clubs who did not renew. All of the WoSFL clubs will be senior clubs as they will be playing in a senior league. Some will retain SJFA membership to enable them to play in that organisation's cup competition, but they will not be classed as junior clubs.

[Burnieman]

44 minutes ago, ralphpdk said:

Well sturgeon’s phase 2 announcement was well worth the wait, not.
So it means no even training yet for adult teams and kids teams.
Teams won’t be able to play but they’ll train like some have been doing for the last few weeks More will follow now nothing surer
I still can’t understand why the Irish have let their grassroots football train in groups of six and we are still not allowed to do anything

It was hardly a surprise was it, the different phases and what they mean are well known.

[cmontheloknow]

3 hours ago, ralphpdk said:

Well sturgeon’s phase 2 announcement was well worth the wait, not.
So it means no even training yet for adult teams and kids teams.
Teams won’t be able to play but they’ll train like some have been doing for the last few weeks More will follow now nothing surer
I still can’t understand why the Irish have let their grassroots football train in groups of six and we are still not allowed to do anything

Our covid was a wee bit different to the Irish.

Any teams training... well I'd be quite draconian and say clubs knowingly allowing it are bringing the game into disrepute and if it's staff members doing it on the sly, they're bringing their own clubs into disrepute and there should be a consequence for that. Clubs breaking the Phase 1 directive should be made an example of.

Players at clubs are (in some cases) furloughed and therefore (afaik) cannot do anything resembling work. 

[Hampden Diehard]

Never thought I'd be desperate for Darvel Legend to post on a thread, but here we are....

[TFW]

1 hour ago, Hampden Diehard said:

Never thought I'd be desperate for Darvel Legend to post on a thread, but here we are....

Seek help. Fast.

[theesel1994]

5 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Players at clubs are (in some cases) furloughed and therefore (afaik) cannot do anything resembling work. 

It could be argued that they are not generating revenue  for the Employer so it may be allowed.

[Sancho Panza]

7 hours ago, theesel1994 said:

It could be argued that they are not generating revenue  for the Employer so it may be allowed.

Does anyone know the uptake on the gov furlough scheme? I ave heard the numbr of clubs using it is very low.

[Stag Nation]

7 hours ago, theesel1994 said:

It could be argued that they are not generating revenue  for the Employer so it may be allowed.

No need to argue. The government guidelines say specifically

"Your employee can:

• take part in training"

[cmontheloknow]

Graham Tatters of Elgin has laid on the line the realities of part-timer football with covid:

https://www.northern-scot.co.uk/sport/i-ll-be-surprised-if-all-42-spfl-clubs-survive-says-elgin-city-chairman-graham-tatters-203350/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

ELGIN City chairman Graham Tatters does not expect all 42 SPFL clubs to survive the effects of the Covid-19 shutdown.

And when football does eventually return for Scotland’s lower league sides, Elgin themselves face a major struggle to meet all guidelines and ensure player safety.

Coronavirus testing of every player will take place before every training session and match, while travel to away matches presents a major headache to City due to social distancing measures which will remain in place for the foreseeable future.

The latest attempt at league reconstruction failed to gain support from Scotland’s clubs, and a 14-10-10-10 league set-up was thrown out in favour of maintaining the current 12-10-10-10 structure.

The result of that was relegation for Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer, although the former two have launched a legal bid to try and get their demotions overturned.

In the meantime, Premiership clubs are planning for an August 1 start behind closed doors, offering virtual season tickets to supporters to watch live streamed matches.

Teams in the Championship have voted to begin their season on October 17, playing a reduced 27-match programme.

It is expected that Leagues One and Two will follow on a similar schedule, and Tatters is preparing his club for the pitfalls which lie ahead.

“Our biggest worry is bringing everybody back, which we have to do after October and then playing behind closed doors for a period of time when all it is going to do is drain every bit of finance we’ve got,” he said.

Tatters is grateful to the furlough system running until October, potentially saving City from going under. They have 12 players signed for next term and are committed to keep paying them throughout the football shutdown.

Another life saver for Elgin and so many of their SPFL rivals was the £3 million donation made by Edinburgh philanthropist James Anderson to help keep clubs afloat during Covid-19.

The Borough Briggs outfit have already applied for their £50,000 share of the grant, which stipulates clubs must have strong community links – which Elgin does.

But Tatters said players have every right to refuse to play for safety reasons, and highlighted some of the restrictions which will pose major problems to his club.

“We have to ask the question but some players might not want to play in this situation,” he said.

“You have to think of your family, there’s loads of scenarios and you can’t criticise anyone who doesn’t want to risk it…

“Testing is no joke either. I was talking to Steven Ferguson up at Ross County and he was saying it is going to be really difficult for a part-time club.

“Firstly, we don’t know if we are going to have a place to train because you don’t know if the local authority is going to open up the sports facilities.

“Secondly, it is going to take an hour to two hours to test people by the time you wait for the results. As a part-time club you have then got to train for two hours. So you taking anything up to four hours and then the guys have got to get home.

“Stevie told me Ross County were there two hours before the start of training, then they are allowed only one player per quarter of the pitch. So that’s four players on a full pitch and they had to cut all the pitches into quarters with the coaches shouting from the sidelines.

“Also, where are we going to test? We’ve got guys in Dundee, Arbroath, Glasgow, Dingwall and some in Elgin. We’ve got to have a big think about it and see how we go.”

Tatters said the advice of SFA doctor John MacLean suggested that Covid-19 testing will remain in football for a long-term period.

The Elgin chairman hopes the SPFL will confirm an October start for all three lower leagues, with the Betfred Cup also beginning that month, giving clubs some much-needed sponsor revenue.

He believes it may be December before crowds will be allowed back at Scottish games, although this has yet to be confirmed.

Manager Gavin Price will also need cash to strengthen City’s squad. “We have sat down in Zoom meetings on five occasions and tried to give the manager a budget and we just can’t do it,” Tatters added.

“Nobody knows how many games we are going to be playing and how people are going to get to games. You will need two buses and that is doubling the costs. If you use cars you’ve multiplied your expenses, maybe five times more.

“You can’t make big decisions without the information that you require. It’s not a guessing game, you just want your club to survive.”

[cmontheloknow]

4 hours ago, Stag Nation said:

No need to argue. The government guidelines say specifically

"Your employee can:

• take part in training"

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5669019/scottish-football-training-blow-furlough/

Quote

SFA chief executive Ian Maxwell has rubber-stamped a June 11 return to training for Premiership clubs.

But there was bad news when HMRC confirmed to Maxwell that players need to come off furlough when they start formal sessions.

HMRC insist any supervised pre-season training is classed as work and will make players ineligible.

Edited June 19, 2020 by cmontheloknow

[Stag Nation]

17 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5669019/scottish-football-training-blow-furlough/

Who to believe?

The gov.uk website, which frequently gets things wrong? Or the Sun, with its proven record of lying? Tricky!

[cmontheloknow]

40 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Who to believe?

The gov.uk website, which frequently gets things wrong? Or the Sun, with its proven record of lying? Tricky!

Let's wait and see shall we! What 'training' are you referring to as for a sportsman, that is part of their ongoing job, rather than being part of CPD as this would suggest:

https://www.fia.uk.com/news/furloughed-workers-can-take-part-in-training-as-the-scheme-is-extended-to-october.html

Edited June 19, 2020 by cmontheloknow

[cmontheloknow]

[cmontheloknow]

 

[Gordon EF]

12 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Graham Tatters of Elgin has laid on the line the realities of part-timer football with covid:

https://www.northern-scot.co.uk/sport/i-ll-be-surprised-if-all-42-spfl-clubs-survive-says-elgin-city-chairman-graham-tatters-203350/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

 

There's a large amount of scare-mongering pish in that tbf.

Elgin won't need to be playing any games until October at the earliest, possibly December.

That's a minimum of four months away. There's clearly still a large degree of uncertainty but on current trajectory, the virus will be more or less gone from Scotland by then. The whole point of the delayed start is to utilise the furlough scheme and then start playing games when the virus is not out in the community, players don't need tested before every game and crowds can return.

He's talking as if Elgin are being asked to start back next week.

[Tutankhamen]

46 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

There's a large amount of scare-mongering pish in that tbf.

Elgin won't need to be playing any games until October at the earliest, possibly December.

That's a minimum of four months away. There's clearly still a large degree of uncertainty but on current trajectory, the virus will be more or less gone from Scotland by then. The whole point of the delayed start is to utilise the furlough scheme and then start playing games when the virus is not out in the community, players don't need tested before every game and crowds can return.

He's talking as if Elgin are being asked to start back next week.

We'll be in Phase 3 by the end of July all going well.

No way will it take till until January to get to Phase 4.

[cmontheloknow]

7 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

There's a large amount of scare-mongering pish in that tbf.

Elgin won't need to be playing any games until October at the earliest, possibly December.

That's a minimum of four months away. There's clearly still a large degree of uncertainty but on current trajectory, the virus will be more or less gone from Scotland by then. The whole point of the delayed start is to utilise the furlough scheme and then start playing games when the virus is not out in the community, players don't need tested before every game and crowds can return.

He's talking as if Elgin are being asked to start back next week.

All of which completely ignores that the virus is already flaring up again in England with rising hospital cases in some regions. A flare up around a chicken factory in Anglesey where 2m social distancing was not possible. 800 cases this week at a German abbatoir. It won't just go away. And is highly likely to be back in the winter.

Edited June 20, 2020 by cmontheloknow

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

All of which completely ignores that the virus is already flaring up again in England with rising hospital cases in some regions. A flare up around a chicken factory in Anglesey where 2m social distancing was not possible. 800 cases this week at a German abbatoir. It won't just go away. And is highly likely to be back in the winter.

It's not ignoring it at all. Of course there will be 'flare ups' in some areas. Nobody thinks otherwise. The reality is that we're not seeing 'second' waves though and the virus is being suppressed fairly efficiently throughout Europe.

In Scotland, we've seen active cases drop from 7,000 to 1,000 in a month. How likely do you actually think it is we'll be over run in 4 months time?

[LongTimeLurker]

The scenario that would make a huge second wave most likely is mutation to a new strain that can be readily caught by people who have already been infected by the strain that is around at the moment. By all accounts the mutation rate has been slow with COVID-19, so that's not looking likely in the short to medium term.

There are rational reasons for optimism and people need to be allowed to plan for the future and get on with their lives rather than being gripped by a paralysing fear after being bombarded with worst case scenarios presented as scientific fact.