West of Scotland Football, What Is The Future?

[Derry]

Maybe we should just all protest and someone could throw a ball in everyone seems okay with no social distancing then but in all seriousness will be interesting to see if there is a spike in deaths/cases after last few days etc with all the people being in close proximity to each other 

[Arthurlie1981]

Well, I am giving you facts fella. The average death age from Covid-19 over the whole world is higher than the life expectancy in Scotland. 

There are a tiny percentage of cases were younger people have died who have no obvious health issues. They are total anomalies though, in the same way you see young people dying from cancer or other illness at a young age when it's not common.

You sound like you watch too much Sky News and take in all the doomsday nonsense they spout every day. If you want to hide in the house until a vaccine comes (which might be never) that's fair enough. Let the rest of us get on with our lives and get back out there enjoying ourselves again.

 

I can assure you I don’t watch sky news (or much of any news programming) but what I do is read as much of the facts as possible and come to my on view on it. As I said early I disagree with you on this but at the end of the day it isn’t you or I that is going to decide what happens and when it happens. It’s people a lot smarter that will and they have said spectators will not be back in grounds until stage 4 whenever that might be (and I’m sure it won’t be August).

[TFW]

I fully concur Arthurlie1981. Much as I want to see the fitba back, and go and have a drink in my local, I don't want to rush into things because somebody thinks he's got a better handle on things than Jason Leitch. 

I well rememeber Michael Gove saying how he'd "had enough of experts" during the BREXIT election. You're not related by any chance, Crazy Feet?

[Crazy Feet]

2 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

I can assure you I don’t watch sky news (or much of any news programming) but what I do is read as much of the facts as possible and come to my on view on it. As I said early I disagree with you on this but at the end of the day it isn’t you or I that is going to decide what happens and when it happens. It’s people a lot smarter that will and they have said spectators will not be back in grounds until stage 4 whenever that might be (and I’m sure it won’t be August).

I didn't provide a date for our football returning. Just giving my personal opinion on it. 

If there's no massive spike by the end of the month after hundreds of thousands of protesters on our streets over the last week or so then there's no justifiable reason to keep this extreme lockdown going any longer.

I said on here weeks and weeks ago we probably wouldnt see grassroots football until next year when everyone was announcing new signings etc. I still maintain that's likely but can't help but feel there's been a massive over reaction to this virus and also Scotland in particular is moving at snails pace in terms of getting back up and running again.

It's no exaggeration to say we will probably be the last country in Europe to open up properly, when there's been 3 days in the last week or so that we have had zero deaths to this virus. Ludicrous. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Crazy Feet

[Arthurlie1981]

I didn't provide a date for our football returning. Just giving my personal opinion on it. 
If there's no massive spike by the end of the month after hundreds of thousands of protesters on our streets over the last week or so then there's no justifiable reason to keep this extreme lockdown going any longer.
I said on here weeks and weeks ago we probably wouldnt see grassroots football until next year when everyone was announcing new signings etc. I still maintain that's likely but can't help but feel there's been a massive over reaction to this virus and also Scotland in particular is moving at snails pace in terms of getting back up and running again.
It's no exaggeration to say we will probably be the last country in Europe to open up properly, when there's been 3 days in the last week or so that we have had zero deaths to this virus. Ludicrous. 

Without getting into the politics of it all we do have the worst rate of excess deaths in Europe and while your right on the deaths being zero, 2 of those days were weekends when the rate is always lower due to reporting.

We have bigger issues to deal with before sport such as schools reopening when at the moment bus capacity is 90% lower than pre lockdown and we have no way of getting them to school. It’s the same thing how do we get fans to games with a 90% reduction on public transport and private buses to which supporters might use.

I would love nothing more to be at Dunterlie early in August but it ain’t happening but if it does I will be delighted.

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, Crazy Feet said:

I didn't provide a date for our football returning. Just giving my personal opinion on it. 

If there's no massive spike by the end of the month after hundreds of thousands of protesters on our streets over the last week or so then there's no justifiable reason to keep this extreme lockdown going any longer.

I said on here weeks and weeks ago we probably wouldnt see grassroots football until next year when everyone was announcing new signings etc. I still maintain that's likely but can't help but feel there's been a massive over reaction to this virus and also Scotland in particular is moving at snails pace in terms of getting back up and running again.

It's no exaggeration to say we will probably be the last country in Europe to open up properly, when there's been 3 days in the last week or so that we have had zero deaths to this virus. Ludicrous. 

The three days in the last week with zero deaths in Scotland have all been at weekends which had previously pointed out have lower reporting rates.

It's maybe worth pointing out that lockdown was imposed when UK daily deaths were around 50-60...this week it's averaged around double that. We've also had nothing even in the ballpark of an extreme lockdown as you earlier stated - if we had imposed an extreme short sharp lockdown earlier we'd probably be out the woods by now. Instead the UK has chosen to implement a half arsed and drawn out version which has managed to both be fairly ineffective and to tank the economy.

There's not been any massive overreaction to the virus - the amount of people who have died going by excess deaths rather than the "official" figures is the equivalent of a city the size of Inverness being nuked off the map...every single one of them somebody's loved one. I miss the football and going to the pub too, but I'd rather this was addressed thoroughly rather than rushing back to some form of ersatz normality quicker than we should and ending up with the equivalent of a city the size of Dundee or Aberdeen being nuked off the map.

[Gordon EF]

3 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

Without getting into the politics of it all we do have the worst rate of excess deaths in Europe 
 

 

At no point during the pandemic has Scotland had the worst excess death rate in Europe.

[Tutankhamen]

Two men i know, one 55 and twice a week at the gym no smoker. Second was 61 and obese non smoker.

Both hospitalised with Covid19 on the second day of lockdown in Glasgow.

First guy was 7 weeks in hospital. Last week he said he doubted he'll ever work again. He can't climb three steps without being breathless. 

Second guy dead within 48 hours.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Cant help but think that regardless of the cash injection to spfl clubs that i’d be surprised if we make it to the end of next season without at least one ‘senior’ club going bust.

[Westie Scotty]

11 hours ago, Crazy Feet said:

I didn't provide a date for our football returning. Just giving my personal opinion on it. 

If there's no massive spike by the end of the month after hundreds of thousands of protesters on our streets over the last week or so then there's no justifiable reason to keep this extreme lockdown going any longer.

I said on here weeks and weeks ago we probably wouldnt see grassroots football until next year when everyone was announcing new signings etc. I still maintain that's likely but can't help but feel there's been a massive over reaction to this virus and also Scotland in particular is moving at snails pace in terms of getting back up and running again.

It's no exaggeration to say we will probably be the last country in Europe to open up properly, when there's been 3 days in the last week or so that we have had zero deaths to this virus. Ludicrous. 

So lets just ignore the fact that the UK has the highest death rate in the world. Now that would be ludicrous.

[Arthurlie1981]

At no point during the pandemic has Scotland had the worst excess death rate in Europe.

I meant the UK.

[honestly united]

The problem we have is that we only had a playing at it lockdown, and not a proper lockdown, which is why we have had probably the worst death rate in the world, only Brazil and USA have more deaths and they are 5 or 6 times the size of the UK. If we had done it properly like NZ as an island we could have been in a position to restart all sport in front of crowds now.

[paul wright scores]

1 hour ago, honestly united said:

The problem we have is that we only had a playing at it lockdown, and not a proper lockdown, which is why we have had probably the worst death rate in the world, only Brazil and USA have more deaths and they are 5 or 6 times the size of the UK. If we had done it properly like NZ as an island we could have been in a position to restart all sport in front of crowds now.

Agree with this, although too many f*ckwits in this country don't seem to think the lockdown applies to them. 

[the rambler]

If we had a Scottish Government that was as good at governing as it is presenting we would be in a much better place. Too many taken in by presenting skills rather than the Scottish Government's handling of this crisis. 

From the mismanagement of decanting the elderly, the most vulnerable to the disease, untested from hospitals into care homes. To still not testing Care Home Staff and NHS workers as a priority, miles off target testing. Take the testing to where it is needed rather than drive in test centres that those most in need can't access. 

Why couldn't they centralise the treatment of the disease at the newly created hospital and let all other hospitals function normally. The fallout from this concentration on Covid to the detriment of treating all other diseases leaving hospitals unutilised is sheer folly with further consequences still to come. 

Her politicising of the crisis so that she could exert her authority, and the delay in easing lockdown so that she could, will cost thousands of jobs. This is a disease that we are going to have to manage rather than the disease managing us. The majority of the population undertand, social distancing, wash your hands, let's move on. Shutting down businesses that could open when following safety guidelines is nothing more than political grandstanding. And she has no intention of easing restrictions at a faster rate when she is already calling for an extension to the October furlough that she wants the UK government to fund even though the rest of the country are moving on. 

There are huge chunks of the population terrified to leave their houses, even if this ever goes away, so effective has the daily onslaught on news channels and social media. There are others that wont be back in a pub or a restaurant or at a football match. There are others that will. Let's get the country moving again to restart our shattered economy and save thousands of jobs.

At the start of this pandemic it was all about protecting the NHS not overwhelming hospitals. Well they never were and have been underutilised for months, speak to people who work there. The lockdown measures have undoubtedly saved lives, how many can't be quantified particularly when you look at Sweden's approach.

We are now at a stage where the benefits of lockdown are far outweighed by the detrimental impact on the economy and people with other health issues. 

Apologies for the rant on a football forum, but you lot started it. 

 

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

I meant the UK.

 

Why is England's particularly high excess death rate during the height of the pandemic any kind of reason to continue lockdown longer than is necessary in Scotland?

[Burnieman]

If we had a Scottish Government that was as good at governing as it is presenting we would be in a much better place. Too many taken in by presenting skills rather than the Scottish Government's handling of this crisis. 
From the mismanagement of decanting the elderly, the most vulnerable to the disease, untested from hospitals into care homes. To still not testing Care Home Staff and NHS workers as a priority, miles off target testing. Take the testing to where it is needed rather than drive in test centres that those most in need can't access. 
Why couldn't they centralise the treatment of the disease at the newly created hospital and let all other hospitals function normally. The fallout from this concentration on Covid to the detriment of treating all other diseases leaving hospitals unutilised is sheer folly with further consequences still to come. 
Her politicising of the crisis so that she could exert her authority, and the delay in easing lockdown so that she could, will cost thousands of jobs. This is a disease that we are going to have to manage rather than the disease managing us. The majority of the population undertand, social distancing, wash your hands, let's move on. Shutting down businesses that could open when following safety guidelines is nothing more than political grandstanding. And she has no intention of easing restrictions at a faster rate when she is already calling for an extension to the October furlough that she wants the UK government to fund even though the rest of the country are moving on. 
There are huge chunks of the population terrified to leave their houses, even if this ever goes away, so effective has the daily onslaught on news channels and social media. There are others that wont be back in a pub or a restaurant or at a football match. There are others that will. Let's get the country moving again to restart our shattered economy and save thousands of jobs.
At the start of this pandemic it was all about protecting the NHS not overwhelming hospitals. Well they never were and have been underutilised for months, speak to people who work there. The lockdown measures have undoubtedly saved lives, how many can't be quantified particularly when you look at Sweden's approach.
We are now at a stage where the benefits of lockdown are far outweighed by the detrimental impact on the economy and people with other health issues. 
Apologies for the rant on a football forum, but you lot started it. 
 

You're blaming the Scottish Govt? Wow, that's some take on it.

[jimbaxters]

1 hour ago, the rambler said:

If we had a Scottish Government that was as good at governing as it is presenting we would be in a much better place. Too many taken in by presenting skills rather than the Scottish Government's handling of this crisis. 

From the mismanagement of decanting the elderly, the most vulnerable to the disease, untested from hospitals into care homes. To still not testing Care Home Staff and NHS workers as a priority, miles off target testing. Take the testing to where it is needed rather than drive in test centres that those most in need can't access. 

Why couldn't they centralise the treatment of the disease at the newly created hospital and let all other hospitals function normally. The fallout from this concentration on Covid to the detriment of treating all other diseases leaving hospitals unutilised is sheer folly with further consequences still to come. 

Her politicising of the crisis so that she could exert her authority, and the delay in easing lockdown so that she could, will cost thousands of jobs. This is a disease that we are going to have to manage rather than the disease managing us. The majority of the population undertand, social distancing, wash your hands, let's move on. Shutting down businesses that could open when following safety guidelines is nothing more than political grandstanding. And she has no intention of easing restrictions at a faster rate when she is already calling for an extension to the October furlough that she wants the UK government to fund even though the rest of the country are moving on. 

There are huge chunks of the population terrified to leave their houses, even if this ever goes away, so effective has the daily onslaught on news channels and social media. There are others that wont be back in a pub or a restaurant or at a football match. There are others that will. Let's get the country moving again to restart our shattered economy and save thousands of jobs.

At the start of this pandemic it was all about protecting the NHS not overwhelming hospitals. Well they never were and have been underutilised for months, speak to people who work there. The lockdown measures have undoubtedly saved lives, how many can't be quantified particularly when you look at Sweden's approach.

We are now at a stage where the benefits of lockdown are far outweighed by the detrimental impact on the economy and people with other health issues. 

Apologies for the rant on a football forum, but you lot started it. 

 

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, the rambler said:

If we had a Scottish Government that was as good at governing as it is presenting we would be in a much better place. Too many taken in by presenting skills rather than the Scottish Government's handling of this crisis. 

From the mismanagement of decanting the elderly, the most vulnerable to the disease, untested from hospitals into care homes. To still not testing Care Home Staff and NHS workers as a priority, miles off target testing. Take the testing to where it is needed rather than drive in test centres that those most in need can't access. 

Why couldn't they centralise the treatment of the disease at the newly created hospital and let all other hospitals function normally. The fallout from this concentration on Covid to the detriment of treating all other diseases leaving hospitals unutilised is sheer folly with further consequences still to come. 

Her politicising of the crisis so that she could exert her authority, and the delay in easing lockdown so that she could, will cost thousands of jobs. This is a disease that we are going to have to manage rather than the disease managing us. The majority of the population undertand, social distancing, wash your hands, let's move on. Shutting down businesses that could open when following safety guidelines is nothing more than political grandstanding. And she has no intention of easing restrictions at a faster rate when she is already calling for an extension to the October furlough that she wants the UK government to fund even though the rest of the country are moving on. 

There are huge chunks of the population terrified to leave their houses, even if this ever goes away, so effective has the daily onslaught on news channels and social media. There are others that wont be back in a pub or a restaurant or at a football match. There are others that will. Let's get the country moving again to restart our shattered economy and save thousands of jobs.

At the start of this pandemic it was all about protecting the NHS not overwhelming hospitals. Well they never were and have been underutilised for months, speak to people who work there. The lockdown measures have undoubtedly saved lives, how many can't be quantified particularly when you look at Sweden's approach.

We are now at a stage where the benefits of lockdown are far outweighed by the detrimental impact on the economy and people with other health issues. 

Apologies for the rant on a football forum, but you lot started it. 

 

Literally no-one brought politics into it until you did, but we'll put you down for a maybe SNP for the next election then?

[Arthurlie1981]

Why is England's particularly high excess death rate during the height of the pandemic any kind of reason to continue lockdown longer than is necessary in Scotland?

I am not advocating keep the lockdown longer than necessary and that’s not what I have been talking about. I am only focused on letting fans back into games as this is a football forum not a politics forum.

[Dev]

The UK cut back on the NHS in the  1990's and early 2000's e.g. Student Doctors suddenly found, in the middle of five year long training courses, that the NHS budgets were drastically cut back and the number of places for newly qualified Doctors was significantly cut back. Some remember that and the righteous protests made at the time. Too many of these young Doctors left upon qualification for the likes of Australia, Canada, the USA, etc. This added to the subsequent Doctor shortage which lead to the UK taking Doctors away from less wealthy nations - which really needed to keep them.

These weren't the only knock-on effects for the NHS. Others included a reduction in the numbers of laboratories capable of dealing wit medical testing. UK has paid a price for this now. You cannot test if you don't already have the resources in terms of laboratories and personnel, let alone stuff like enzymes, etc. To get anywhere near the present testing capacity and a trace/test scheme in such a short time is highly creditable - even though it cannot be at maximum efficiency immediately. It'd a  d...-side  better than what we had in January and it will be in position for further outbreaks of this disease and for any others which, in time, will head our way!

Another thing. This epidemic in the UK shows that the devolved nations don't have the scale to fight the disease or to come up with an understanding of what it is and how to deal with it. It's not their fault but it is a drastic downside to devolution. An epidemic like this needs to be fought on a UK basis. Instead the devolved nations go about trying to self-justify by "being different". Then things get so out of hand that they just follow England but pretend not to be doing so. This is one situation where they should have been honest from the start and acted as one i.e. UK-wide.