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Kelty awarded title


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1 minute ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

Rules can be changed by a collective vote by the spfl in their own leagues.Thats not the case for the pyramid/lowland league.

 

You appear to be taking it bad bud the whole top and bottom of it is teams at the bottom of the SPFL and basically yourselves as well are shiting themselves at the fact that there are a lot of decent teams both in the Lowland and surrounding leagues coming through that will change the whole face of Scottish football. 

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2 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

You appear to be taking it bad bud the whole top and bottom of it is teams at the bottom of the SPFL and basically yourselves as well are shiting themselves at the fact that there are a lot of decent teams both in the Lowland and surrounding leagues coming through that will change the whole face of Scottish football. 

Yeah I'm angry and I think justifiably so(obviously you disagree).

And I agree teams in the spfl are shitting themselves. They didnt want the pyramid in the first place.

Edited by Fifes Elite Force
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6 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

I'm not going to get into the dunfermline thing but that was another total shambles and corrupt as f**k. And why wouldn't I vocally get passionate about my club being fucked over.

 

Yeah what's wrong with supporting the principles of sporting integrity?

You’re arguing that Kelty should get promoted on the basis that they might have gone on and clinched the Lowland League. They then might have beaten Brora who hadn’t yet clinched the Highland League and then might have beaten Brechin in a playoff who might have finished bottom of League Two.

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9 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

I'm not going to get into the dunfermline thing but that was another total shambles and corrupt as f**k. And why wouldn't I vocally get passionate about my club being fucked over.

 

Yeah what's wrong with supporting the principles of sporting integrity?

Yeah mate you need a little lay down. Really not worth making yourself ill over it's non league football in a small country ffs. 

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Just now, charlie king mvp said:

You’re arguing that Kelty should get promoted on the basis that they might have gone on and clinched the Lowland League. They then might have beaten Brora who hadn’t yet clinched the Highland League and then might have beaten Brechin in a playoff who might have finished bottom of League Two.

No. I'm arguing that they are  entitled to a shot to get into the spfl. If league placings stand according the the spfl then they stand. At no point have I said kelty should be automatically promoted. 

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1 minute ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

If debating things on a forum is your idea of ill you probably need to get out more.

You sound really upset over something that is going nowhere and doesn't involve the club you support. 

As for needing to get out more i think that applies to most of the population that made me chuckle thanks bud 😄

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4 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

No. I'm arguing that they are  entitled to a shot to get into the spfl. If league placings stand according the the spfl then they stand. At no point have I said kelty should be automatically promoted. 

Fair enough. I feel for Kelty and Brora and would be pissed off it was my team but I don’t see any way that they are going to get their shot this time unfortunately.

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4 minutes ago, traffordab said:

You sound really upset over something that is going nowhere and doesn't involve the club you support. 

As for needing to get out more i think that applies to most of the population that made me chuckle thanks bud 😄

Yeah I think it's a blatant attempt at cheating. It does effect a club I support so I'm being vocal about it. And I think the club has both legal basis and governing body backing.

 

Valid point in your second paragraph 😂

Edited by Fifes Elite Force
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Just now, charlie king mvp said:

Fair enough. I feel for Kelty and Brora and would be pissed off it was my team but I don’t see any way that they are going to get their shot this time unfortunately.

Fair enough.

I'm hoping from a legal standpoint and through the governing bodies but who knows.

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9 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

Yeah I'm angry and I think justifiably so(obviously you disagree).

And I agree teams in the spfl are shitting themselves. They didnt want the pyramid in the first place.

Thing is I'm not disagreeing with you,you still didnt answer the question what would you do if you were in Brechins position ? 

You seemed more upset this was Kelty s big chance to go up and the fact the league they are in at present is getting stronger and stronger restricting Keltys chances of going up. 

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1 minute ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

If debating things on a forum is your idea of ill you probably need to get out more.

At what point are the Lowland League held to account over breaching their own rules then?

Last year they tried to change the rules around relegation during the season due to Selkirk. The SFA ultimately never allowed that. In order to alter their constitution they had to follow this procedure:

Quote

F7 No alterations will be made to the Constitution or the Rules except at the Annual General Meeting or at a Special General Meeting summoned for this purpose. Notice of the proposed alteration(s) to the Constitution and Rules for consideration at the Annual General Meeting must be intimated to the Secretary, in writing, on or before 30th April each year. A copy of such alteration(s) will be circulated by the Secretary on or before 15th May for inclusion on the agenda of the Annual General Meeting. A copy of such alterations will be sent to each Club in membership at least fourteen (14) days prior to the meeting convened to deal with the matter.

F8 Unless otherwise stated in the proposal and agreed at the Annual or Special General Meeting, all proposals that are accepted will become effective immediately on the closure of that meeting.

As far as i'm aware no SGM was called to make the decision to declare Kelty Heart champions and end the season. It was one taken by the SLFL board. http://slfl.co.uk/season-ends-with-immediate-effect-kelty-hearts-crowned-as-champions/

In which case the rule around winning the League Championship stands as the following:

Quote

H3 The winning of the Championship of the League will be decided on results of the Home and Away matches between the Clubs in membership, three points for a win, one point for a draw. The Club scoring the highest number of points will be declared the Champion. a) In the event of two or more Clubs being equal in points, goal difference will decide the Championship; b) In the event of the points and goal difference being equal, the club scoring the most number of goals will decide the Championship; c) If the points, goal difference and goals scored are the same the Championship will be decided by a Championship Play-Off Competition at a venue to be decided by the Board; d) If a decision in the Play-Off Match to determine the Champion Club has not been reached by the end of ninety (90) minutes, extra time of fifteen (15) minutes each way will be played. If at the end of extra time there is still equality the winners will be determined by the taking of kicks from the penalty mark in accordance with the system laid down by the International Football Association Board. The cost of Match Officials, Ground Rent, Catering etc, for the play-off will be met from the gate receipts and any surplus thereafter will accrue to the League

Not all Home and Away matches between the clubs in membership were able to take place. And there's nothing in there about awarding on the basis of points per game.

Even if the league had waited. Going by the league's own rules they had to complete the season by the 31st May. Which it is unable to do because of the lockdown.

Quote

H5 Clubs shall receive a fixture list from the Secretary. Fixtures will be cast between a date to be decided by the Board and 31st May in the succeeding year and Clubs will be required to fulfil fixtures between those dates.

 

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25 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Thing is I'm not disagreeing with you,you still didnt answer the question what would you do if you were in Brechins position ? 

You seemed more upset this was Kelty s big chance to go up and the fact the league they are in at present is getting stronger and stronger restricting Keltys chances of going up. 

I didnt see that question so apologies. The same as what they are doing however with any organisation a conflict of interest should play a part and taken into account. I would suggest that as a board member of the spfl and therefore responsibilities as part of that he should have been excluded fro the board and all spfl should comply with their own rules.

 

On your second part, no I actually feel for bonnyrigg here.I am annoyed by blatant cheating by brechins chairman and I know people who run kelty and feel for them with the work they have put in. Football clubs dont run on thin air.

Edited by Fifes Elite Force
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16 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

At what point are the Lowland League held to account over breaching their own rules then?

Last year they tried to change the rules around relegation during the season due to Selkirk. The SFA ultimately never allowed that. In order to alter their constitution they had to follow this procedure:

As far as i'm aware no SGM was called to make the decision to declare Kelty Heart champions and end the season. It was one taken by the SLFL board. http://slfl.co.uk/season-ends-with-immediate-effect-kelty-hearts-crowned-as-champions/

In which case the rule around winning the League Championship stands as the following:

Not all Home and Away matches between the clubs in membership were able to take place. And there's nothing in there about awarding on the basis of points per game.

Even if the league had waited. Going by the league's own rules they had to complete the season by the 31st May. Which it is unable to do because of the lockdown.

 

I dont know enough about the selkirk situation to comment. Its whataboutery though. 

 

Edit- is your argument that no one should be held to account ever because of selkirk??

 

In terms of kelty getting the title I didnt fully agree but I did understand it and I assume it was by the book(unless you step disputing that?).The point is though the spfl took a decision against their own rules to say club 42 would not be relegated without consulting with the other stakeholders involved. They also took the decision that promotion and relegation would happen in the other leagues.

Edited by Fifes Elite Force
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3 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

How can Brechin, Brora or Kelty set a budget and build a squad for next season if they're not going to know what division they're in until 4 days before the season starts? That's completely unworkable and impractical.

Not knowing which division Kelty or Brora will be in wont be a huge matter to them, because their playing squads will be largely the same regardless. Maybe Brora and Kelty would prefer not to have a play off, because of the uncertainty, and would prefer to stay in their respective leagues. But, if they thought that, then they wouldn't have come out with the joint statement would they? The only real problem is for Brechin, who depend on the spfl handouts. They've also got a hand on the spfl driving wheel.

The way I see it, Brechin, hiding behind the spfl don't want to come to a solution.

1 hour ago, charlie king mvp said:

 

I understand the frustration felt by Kelty and Brora here but as pointed out above it is completely impractical to have playoffs right before the start of the season. It’s unfair on all the clubs involved.

And as Big Al points out there is no prospect of playoffs being able to be staged any time soon.  I have no clue when we will be able to return to football with crowds but there won’t be any football played at our level behind closed doors.  I have almost resigned myself to the fact that we won’t get to football before the end of 2020 and we might not even get a 20/21 season at all.

League reconstruction was always a long shot as well.  I understand what the rules say about the pyramid playoff but is there anything in the rules that says we can reconstruct the leagues at the end of a season to promote a whole load of teams who otherwise wouldn’t have been promoted?

So is what we’ve arrived at fair? No.  Is it the least unfair option? You could argue it is.  

The leagues could have been made null and void.  That would have suited us fine but would that have been any fairer? I don’t think it would have been.  
 

Would there have been the same focus on Brechin if our chairman wasn’t on the SPFL board? I don’t know but the idea that Ken Ferguson is some sort of puppet master controlling Scottish football is pretty laughable.

Kelty and Brora would take the impractical, and try to work on the best fair solution for all three clubs. Brechin wont. They are hiding behind the spfl.

I don't think you really understand the political dynamite that the lowland league have been forced to accept a rule change to allow Brechin in. The only club that rule change benefits is Brechin, so the position of the Brechin Chairman is frankly untenable within the spfl and the clubs should fire him.

Every club works in self interest, but bypassing the highland/lowland league line is corrupt, and has massive implications.

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57 minutes ago, traffordab said:

They won't win. 

It would cost a shitload of time and money even if they were crazy enough to do so. 

Even the infamous friend of the club donald findlay would get nowhere with this. 

It's all bluster for god sake the powers that be aren't concerned in the slightest with a club like rangers threats never mind in the grand scheme of things what the small fry are saying. 

 

I think you're wrong. I think Kelty and Brora will win. They have the rules on their side.

I think the bullying and threats from the spfl regarding this suggest the spfl know they will win too.

 

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11 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

I dont know enough about the selkirk situation to comment. Its whataboutery though. 

 

Edit- is your argument that no one should be held to account ever because of selkirk??

 

In terms of kelty getting the title I didnt fully agree but I did understand it and I assume it was by the book(unless you step disputing that?).The point is though the spfl took a decision against their own rules to say club 42 would not be relegated without consulting with the other stakeholders involved. They also took the decision that promotion and relegation would happen in the other leagues.

No, i'm highlighting the Selkirk situation as a known example where a league body tried to amend their rules during the season and were not allowed to.

EVERYONE is making up rules right now, not just the SPFL. You want to pull at one particular thread, something else comes loose.

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5 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

No, i'm highlighting the Selkirk situation as a known example where a league body tried to amend their rules during the season and were not allowed to.

EVERYONE is making up rules right now, not just the SPFL. You want to pull at one particular thread, something else comes loose.

So would you say the lowland league were right or wrong in the selkirk situation?

Also were there other stakeholders that needed to be consulted because they were impacted(to the same level as kelty) and did they need to agree with stakeholders outside of the lowland league to make their decision according to the rules?

 

 

Edited by Fifes Elite Force
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17 minutes ago, BS7 said:

 

I don't think you really understand the political dynamite that the lowland league have been forced to accept a rule change to allow Brechin in. The only club that rule change benefits is Brechin, so the position of the Brechin Chairman is frankly untenable within the spfl and the clubs should fire him.

Every club works in self interest, but bypassing the highland/lowland league line is corrupt, and has massive implications.

Has that actually happened? I’ll admit I wasn’t aware of that at all.

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2 minutes ago, charlie king mvp said:

Has that actually happened? I’ll admit I wasn’t aware of that at all.

I wasn't aware of it until last night - a tweet hastily deleted - brought it up. I believe it is what was referenced in the Brora and kelty joint statement, and it would appear it's been common knowledge for weeks.

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