Kelty awarded title

[BS7]

11 minutes ago, big al said:

You are making up your own rules mate to justify a scenario.

Kelty may be champions but before the season started it was clear to everyone that being champions only meant they qualified for a play off semi final.

Dundee Utd, Raith etc were clearly playing for automatic promotion if they won their league.

All Kelty have done is qualify for a play off semi, the same as for example Cowden in L2. All play offs are cancelled so Kelty, as Cowden, Inverness, Falkirk and many more miss out on the play offs. 
Dont think for a second Kelty are the only ones who were trying really hard to get promoted via a play off and have lost the opportunity. 
 

The difference is the play offs further up the league are entirely within the remit of the spfl.

the tier 4/5 play off is within the remit of spfl/hl/ll/sfa - all effectively hold a veto.

Ive a fair idea that the spfl will apply pressure to get the outcome they want. It really depends on the type of clubs kelty and Brora are if they stand up to them. Personally I hope they do stand up to them as I think they have a rock solid case.

[BS7]

Just now, craigkillie said:

The Scottish Cup games can be played any time during next season, the play-offs can't.

why not?

you could play two one off games at neutral venues. It would take 4 days.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

Just now, BS7 said:

why not?

you could play two one off games at neutral venues. It would take 4 days.

That's a shit load of extra time.

[jagfox]

24 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

If the SPFL had gone ahead with reconstruction and excluded Brora and Kelty I would have agreed that both clubs were being completely shafted here. However, in this scenario where the league stay the same, it's just an unfortunate and somewhat unavoidable scenario under extreme circumstances. It's impossible to hold the play-offs, so there's no real alternative other than cancelling them. If Brora can't face off against Kelty to decide who the "candidate club" are for the League 2 Play-off, then how can the SPFL make any other decision than the one they have?

The league has not stayed the same.

[Fifes Elite Force]

32 minutes ago, big al said:

You are making up your own rules mate to justify a scenario.

Kelty may be champions but before the season started it was clear to everyone that being champions only meant they qualified for a play off semi final.

Dundee Utd, Raith etc were clearly playing for automatic promotion if they won their league.

All Kelty have done is qualify for a play off semi, the same as for example Cowden in L2. All play offs are cancelled so Kelty, as Cowden, Inverness, Falkirk and many more miss out on the play offs. 
Dont think for a second Kelty are the only ones who were trying really hard to get promoted via a play off and have lost the opportunity. 
 

But that's because the spfl agreed to cancel them. As per the rules the lowland league needed to be involved in getting rid of the pyramid playoff. That's not me making up the rules that is written as posted above in the spfl rules. So the playoffs within the spfl are wholly run and decided upon by the spfl. The pyramid isn't, its a collective decision which the lowland (and highland) league clubs were inpacted by and didnt have a say.

 

So I'm not making up rules the rules are within the spfl rulebook

Edited May 8, 2020 by Fifes Elite Force

[bluearmyfaction]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

 

Not been abandoned.  That connotes the match starting.  The EFL got itself in a pickle when Bolton didn't turn up to the Brentford match last year.   As nothing hung on it, they just gave Brentford a 1-0 win, but that was by using a similar provision to this.   I.e. abandonment.  The real penalty for not turning up is points deduction and the match still to go ahead, and if it cannot, expulsion, but the EFL don't want to enforce that because it makes them look even more hideously incompetent than they are.

[newcastle broon]

1 hour ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

Kelty also jumped ship a year before the other juniors and invested heavily knowing it will get more difficult as more junior clubs filter up to the lowland league.

Not sure what thats got to do wi it.If that was the case they shouldve went up last season then. They were nae good enough last season to even make the top 2?

 

 

[Fifes Elite Force]

56 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Not sure what thats got to do wi it.If that was the case they shouldve went up last season then. They were nae good enough last season to even make the top 2?

 

 

I think it's relevant as to why kelty might be motivated to challenge it from their viewpoint. And why being denied after taking a bold decision might be a bit of a kick in the teeth. 

Edit- after the sfa convinced them they would have the opportunity if they did well to get into the spfl leaving decades of history behind in the juniors and spending allot of cash to get sfa membership and meet criteria.

 

I think the first year in a league they did well after being promoted into it. What were they top 4?

 

Edit again- does that mean dundee united arnt entitled to win the championship and be promoted because they wernt good enough to win it last season

Edited May 8, 2020 by Fifes Elite Force

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, BS7 said:

why not?

you could play two one off games at neutral venues. It would take 4 days.

 

Not in the middle of the season you can't. If the 2020/21 season starts in August then the 2019/20 Scottish Cup games can be played in September, October, March, whenever, because it has no impact on the 2020/21 season. The same isn't true of the play-offs. The following season can't take place when we don't know who is going to be in which league.

[BS7]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

 

Not in the middle of the season you can't. If the 2020/21 season starts in August then the 2019/20 Scottish Cup games can be played in September, October, March, whenever, because it has no impact on the 2020/21 season. The same isn't true of the play-offs. The following season can't take place when we don't know who is going to be in which league.

Season starts on 1st August, play offs on 1st and 4th August, league starts on 8th August.

not ideal, but certainly workable given the circumstances.

playing Scottish cup ties following season has a number of issues - not least in relation to player registrations and suspensions, but again not ideal but certainly workable.

what I’m not seeing here are practical arguments as to why Brechin should avoid a play off - and reasons why the tier 5 champions should be deprived of a play off.

the revelation that the spfl forced the lowland league to accept a rule change to accept Brechin is dynamite though.

[BS7]

9 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

 

The following season can't take place when we don't know who is going to be in which league.

Ahem. The rangers.

[newcastle broon]

1 hour ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

I think it's relevant as to why kelty might be motivated to challenge it from their viewpoint. And why being denied after taking a bold decision might be a bit of a kick in the teeth. 

Edit- after the sfa convinced them they would have the opportunity if they did well to get into the spfl leaving decades of history behind in the juniors and spending allot of cash to get sfa membership and meet criteria.

 

I think the first year in a league they did well after being promoted into it. What were they top 4?

 

Edit again- does that mean dundee united arnt entitled to win the championship and be promoted because they wernt good enough to win it last season

Yer arguing wi yourself here. 

I dont get why Kelty jumping ship before anybody else makes any difference or are you saying because they were one of the 1st juniors to go senior they have a right to go straight up. There are still decent teams in the LL without added pressure from ex juniors.

They actually finished 3rd behind East Kilbride and BSC which if they invested that much money as you said must've been classed as a poor season. 

For what it's worth it's not Kelty who've been shafted here it's the Lowland and Highland Leagues. 

[Fifes Elite Force]

1 hour ago, newcastle broon said:

Yer arguing wi yourself here. 

I dont get why Kelty jumping ship before anybody else makes any difference or are you saying because they were one of the 1st juniors to go senior they have a right to go straight up. There are still decent teams in the LL without added pressure from ex juniors.

They actually finished 3rd behind East Kilbride and BSC which if they invested that much money as you said must've been classed as a poor season. 

For what it's worth it's not Kelty who've been shafted here it's the Lowland and Highland Leagues. 

Erm, no I'm responding to your post and disagreeing so arguing with you.

I wouldnt say so, we didnt get into numbers and what kelty spent or their rivals spent. They have spent compared to some teams in a short space of time to get licensing etc. 3rd in a league they have been promoted into is hardly a disaster.

 

They are entitled to go (and get their shot)because they have won the respective leagues since leaving the junior leagues and deserve a chance at the  spfl. Which was what was sold to them if they joined the senior set up. They made that jump, they put the effort into meeting the criteria and then won the required competitions so even by sporting merit they should be allowed their shot and are being denied via a committee vote, a vote that is in conflict of the rules and being headed by the chairman of a club who will be impacted/potentially relegated on the park and the same chairman put forward a motion to relegate other teams. Its totally and transparently corrupt.

Yeah the lowland league have been shafted as you say. Which is the crux of the whole debate. Kelty being pretty much part of that. Club 42 is bottom,the clubs voted that the league placing stands. Brechin should be included.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Fifes Elite Force

[Dunning1874]

6 hours ago, BS7 said:

Season starts on 1st August, play offs on 1st and 4th August, league starts on 8th August.

not ideal, but certainly workable given the circumstances.

playing Scottish cup ties following season has a number of issues - not least in relation to player registrations and suspensions, but again not ideal but certainly workable.

what I’m not seeing here are practical arguments as to why Brechin should avoid a play off - and reasons why the tier 5 champions should be deprived of a play off.

the revelation that the spfl forced the lowland league to accept a rule change to accept Brechin is dynamite though.

How can Brechin, Brora or Kelty set a budget and build a squad for next season if they're not going to know what division they're in until 4 days before the season starts? That's completely unworkable and impractical.

[selfassemblyshire]

I hope the LL stand strong and tell Brechin to f**k off to the Highland League when they get relegated.

What a joke this has become. I do hope we do the right thing as a league and promote Bo'ness, play with a 17 team league and add an extra relegation spot like the EoS are doing.

[big al]

7 hours ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

But that's because the spfl agreed to cancel them. As per the rules the lowland league needed to be involved in getting rid of the pyramid playoff. That's not me making up the rules that is written as posted above in the spfl rules. So the playoffs within the spfl are wholly run and decided upon by the spfl. The pyramid isn't, its a collective decision which the lowland (and highland) league clubs were inpacted by and didnt have a say.

 

So I'm not making up rules the rules are within the spfl rulebook

Ah sorry bud. I forgot the Lowland league is immune to the virus and can still stage their play offs if they desire, while the rest of the country watch on in admiration.

[charlie king mvp]

57 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

How can Brechin, Brora or Kelty set a budget and build a squad for next season if they're not going to know what division they're in until 4 days before the season starts? That's completely unworkable and impractical.

 

40 minutes ago, big al said:

Ah sorry bud. I forgot the Lowland league is immune to the virus and can still stage their play offs if they desire, while the rest of the country watch on in admiration.

I understand the frustration felt by Kelty and Brora here but as pointed out above it is completely impractical to have playoffs right before the start of the season. It’s unfair on all the clubs involved.

And as Big Al points out there is no prospect of playoffs being able to be staged any time soon.  I have no clue when we will be able to return to football with crowds but there won’t be any football played at our level behind closed doors.  I have almost resigned myself to the fact that we won’t get to football before the end of 2020 and we might not even get a 20/21 season at all.

League reconstruction was always a long shot as well.  I understand what the rules say about the pyramid playoff but is there anything in the rules that says we can reconstruct the leagues at the end of a season to promote a whole load of teams who otherwise wouldn’t have been promoted?

So is what we’ve arrived at fair? No.  Is it the least unfair option? You could argue it is.  

The leagues could have been made null and void.  That would have suited us fine but would that have been any fairer? I don’t think it would have been.  
 

Would there have been the same focus on Brechin if our chairman wasn’t on the SPFL board? I don’t know but the idea that Ken Ferguson is some sort of puppet master controlling Scottish football is pretty laughable.

[Whitburn Vale]

1 hour ago, selfassemblyshire said:

I hope the LL stand strong and tell Brechin to f**k off to the Highland League when they get relegated.

What a joke this has become. I do hope we do the right thing as a league and promote Bo'ness, play with a 17 team league and add an extra relegation spot like the EoS are doing.

A brilliant post self assembly,particularly on 2 points......,if the BU's get awarded their license then they are up to the LL no question and rightly so.

But yeah 110% the LL should show no mercy to Brechin City football club when it comes to Lowland league admission if they get relegated in the coming season's. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Whitburn Vale

[newcastle broon]

6 hours ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

Erm, no I'm responding to your post and disagreeing so arguing with you.

They are entitled to go (and get their shot)because they have won the respective leagues since leaving the junior leagues and deserve a chance at the  spfl. Which was what was sold to them if they joined the senior set up. They made that jump, they put the effort into meeting the criteria and then won the required competitions so even by sporting merit they should be allowed their shot and are being denied via a committee vote, a vote that is in conflict of the rules and being headed by the chairman of a club who will be impacted/potentially relegated on the park and the same chairman put forward a motion to relegate other teams. Its totally and transparently corrupt.

Yeah the lowland league have been shafted as you say. Which is the crux of the whole debate. Kelty being pretty much part of that. Club 42 is bottom,the clubs voted that the league placing stands. Brechin should be included.

Sporting merit says they didnt win the league though. Bonnyrigg were still very much in with a chance. 

And yes it doesn't look good the Brechin chairman being on the league committee, hes hardly gonnae vote for relegation is he or if Kelty were in his shoes would they vote to go down? 

Theres a global pandemic and nobody knows when fitba will be back and its  very much frustrating for Kelty but as I said it's the LL who have been shafted here. 

Brechin are hardly covering themselves in glory here though. Wanting to play LL should they go down is just laughable. 

[Fifes Elite Force]

1 hour ago, big al said:

Ah sorry bud. I forgot the Lowland league is immune to the virus and can still stage their play offs if they desire, while the rest of the country watch on in admiration.

And I didnt realise the spfl was always right, dont  vote in self interest and make league placing count in exception of one team.