The SPFL vote vote

[Aufc]

To be honest this issue overshadows the real issue of how the hell did Hearts manage to finish last in a 12 team league with Ross Co, Hamilton and  St Mirren?  Three clubs with a fraction of the resources and a combined core support less than the Jambos.  They have managed to win a mere 4 games all season and want to use the awful situation to erase the terrible season from the history books.  
The reality is the top league needs Hearts.  A year in the Championship may even do them good and the games against Dundee are something for us all to look forward too.
 

The top league doesnt need hearts. They have been pish and deserve to be bottom and, thus, get relegated

[Ric]

[gannonball]

13 minutes ago, The_Judge said:

I doubt it 

I actually meant to say shorter odds on Aberdeen winning the league than being relegated, which helps disproves the whole more teams vying for third.

Edited April 16, 2020 by gannonball

[Ian38018]

2 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

I'm all for a permanent reconstruction of Scottish football btw. Something that benefits and has input from all stakeholders, including fan groups. If this saves Hearts then so be it.

Some back of a fag packet, temporary fix to prevent one club spending one season in the Championship can get straight in the fucking bin.

OK - Fair comment.  But the big handcuff is broadcasters' demands for 4 OF matches/season.  They may settle for two, but would be justified in halving whatever buttons they presently pay.  So assuming we need the cash, and have to factor in 4 OF matches, we either:

Plan A - Stick with what we have.

Plan B - Go to 14 clubs, with a 7:7 split after 26 matches (total 38 matches each)  

Plan C - Go to 14 clubs, with a 6:8 split after 26 matches (total 36 matches for top six clubs, 40 for bottom eight)   

Plan D - Go with 16 clubs, and do what?  Split 4:4:4:4 after 30 matches (total 36 matches each)

All of the alternatives represent even bigger dogs dinners than the current system.  But I suppose they could be endured, if the are just for one season (i.e. designed to save Hearts)

Happy to hear anyone else's Plan E

 

 

[Ric]

Just now, Ian38018 said:

...but would be justified in halving whatever buttons they presently pay. 

Er... no.

[Ian38018]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

Er... no.

I assume you are going to expand upon that assertion?

[Ric]

5 minutes ago, Ian38018 said:

I assume you are going to expand upon that assertion?

Because it's assuming that the entire package is solely based on OF games.

[johnnydun]

I don't see what the problem is with a slightly smaller prize pot. They would only be giving up money for 2 teams at the bottom of league 2.

[EdTheDuck]

I can understand folks looking for 16 and 18 team leagues for 'variation' but it isn't going to happen for all the myriad (selfish) reasons often cited. TV would turn their nose up at it, lack of Ugly Sisters 4 times a year and Embra derby 4 times a year would see SKY offer even less money than before, never mind the untold fortunes they're offering from next season.

Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, at the very least would vote against it because 4 times a season games against each other would disappear, to be replaced with games against teams bringing 150 fans rather than 1,500 - 3,000.

Besides which, the old 18 team league was utterly fucking horrible - f**k all to play for for about 6 months, loads of meaningless games against similar dross, fans picked and chose games to go along to which is why gates swung from 5,000 to 15,000 from one week to the next. The prospect of that will guarantee at least 5 clubs will never entertain it.

14 is the best bet, but probably with a rider to go back to 12 and maybe even 10 which is what those 5 really want.

That is why it won't happen. Those 5 clubs (maybe a couple more) won't let it. £££$$$

Incidentally, anyone who thinks an 18 would propel other clubs into the Title race are wrong.  The suggestion is usually that only playing the ugly sister once home & away will make a huge difference but it won't. The average points difference between league leaders and Best of the Rest after 2 rounds over the last 10 years is 11.1 points.  Unless you imagine Hibs will win 4 more games against the 6 new diddies than Celtic...nah... (for those who think the Rogers factor makes that gap as big as it is, in the 5 years prior to his arrival after 2 rounds was 10.6 points so...y'know...). Besides which, Hearts getting in about Celtic (and sevco maybe) will not add a single fan to attendees at Pittodrie, Easter Road, Rugby park etc. Why would it?

FYI in those last 10 years there have been 3 times the Best of the Rest have been within 5 points of Celtic after 2 rounds. One of those was last season, Kilmarnock 4 pts behind, the other twice Aberdeen when Ronnie was looking after the shop. Strip them out and the average is almost 15 points.

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I'm all for a permanent reconstruction of Scottish football btw. Something that benefits and has input from all stakeholders, including fan groups. If this saves Hearts then so be it.
Some back of a fag packet, temporary fix to prevent one club spending one season in the Championship can get straight in the fucking bin.

This.

Any attempt to have a temporary reconstruction needs to get in the sea.

[Ian38018]

2 minutes ago, Ric said:

Because it's assuming that the entire package is solely based on OF games.

I am aware the package is not based solely on OF games.

I appreciate Celtic/Rangers games against Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen will be a factor too.  No disrespect to the rest of the current 12, but the bottom line is matches involving these interest no-one beyond their own modest fan base.  Certainly not Sky executives. 

But the point I was making is that any new set-up other than those I outlined above will, by necessity, end up with not only with half the number OF matches/season.  But also half the number of Celtic v Hibs, Rangers v Aberdeen, Hearts v Hibs matches per season.  

 

 

[Ric]

1 minute ago, Ian38018 said:

I am aware the package is not based solely on OF games.

Which is why they would not be justified in halving their payment if it's half the number of OF games.

We all know the realities of the situation of course and they have a far greater weighting than they should.

[Alan Stubbs]

23 minutes ago, Ian38018 said:

OK - Fair comment.  But the big handcuff is broadcasters' demands for 4 OF matches/season.  They may settle for two, but would be justified in halving whatever buttons they presently pay.  So assuming we need the cash, and have to factor in 4 OF matches, we either:

Plan A - Stick with what we have.

Plan B - Go to 14 clubs, with a 7:7 split after 26 matches (total 38 matches each)  

Plan C - Go to 14 clubs, with a 6:8 split after 26 matches (total 36 matches for top six clubs, 40 for bottom eight)   

Plan D - Go with 16 clubs, and do what?  Split 4:4:4:4 after 30 matches (total 36 matches each)

All of the alternatives represent even bigger dogs dinners than the current system.  But I suppose they could be endured, if the are just for one season (i.e. designed to save Hearts)

Happy to hear anyone else's Plan E

The people running our game being a gang of absolute clowns with zero understanding of Scottish football is the reason we have such a bitch status relationship with the broadcasters in the first place. Like society in general, this whole thing should be seen as an opportunity to change how things are done. In both cases that won't actually happen, of course

Budge leading the reforms with 'this isn't actually a good idea' is a great start.

[Ian38018]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

Which is why they would not be justified in halving their payment if it's half the number of OF games.

We all know the realities of the situation of course and they have a far greater weighting than they should.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I clearly stated, there would be a concurrent halving of Edinburgh derbies, Aberdeen v Celtic matches, Aberdeen v Rangers matches, of Celtic v Hibs matches etc, etc etc.

Basically a halving of all "marquee" games.

[Ric]

Just now, Ian38018 said:

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

You say, justified, I say no they are not, you say why, I tell you why.

There is nothing obtuse about that.

[bennett]

6 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

This.

Any attempt to have a temporary reconstruction needs to get in the sea.

A temporary reconstruction wouldn't work, there's been enough chaos recently and no one wants to be changing things again in a years time.

 

1 minute ago, Ian38018 said:

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I clearly stated, there would be a concurrent halving of Edinburgh derbies, Aberdeen v Celtic matches, Aberdeen v Rangers matches, of Celtic v Hibs matches etc, etc etc.

Basically a halving of all "marquee" games.

It's what he does.

 

[Ric]

4 minutes ago, bennett said:

It's what he does.

I see you are in no way bitter at being proven wrong the other day.

You need to let go with the anger, it'll consume you you know.

 

[tree house tam]

Think I must be the only person who doesn't want reconstruction, it's fine the way it is.

[Lofarl]

So hearts latest statement says f**k ye all and it’s only gonna be for 2 years anyways.  Moan.

[gannonball]

4 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Think I must be the only person who doesn't want reconstruction, it's fine the way it is.

Im in the same boat for the premiership anyway. Up to other leagues if they wish to change but Im content with what we have now.

In general though the addition of play offs and opening up to other leagues has been great. Don't feel the need to f**k with  it any more at the moment. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by gannonball