The SPFL vote vote

[kingjoey]

The thing that nobody seems to have picked up from this mess, is why any organisation would release the result of any vote where not everyone has voted, before the actual deadline has passed. The deadline being in 28 days time. It definitely smells, and Dundee not coming out of this well.

[bennett]

3 minutes ago, honestman54 said:

I still blame Doncaster as it is clear from Inverness statement that the league received Dundee's vote and then 'lost' it.  I never support Rangers but perhaps they have a point on the bullying issue and the Dundee vote was intentionally lost to give them time to change their minds behind the scene via the SPFL and 'big hitters' whoever they may be.

They need to come clean about a lot, especially who the "big hitter" was and what's been said.

Our games been through a lot  but this is something you couldn't have envisaged .

[BawWatchin]

1 minute ago, bennett said:

They need to come clean about a lot, especially who the "big hitter" was and what's been said.

Our games been through a lot  but this is something you couldn't have envisaged .

I personally hope it was us tbqh.

[Alan Stubbs]

1, 2, 3 and 4.

Doncaster hadn't cleared out his ntlworld email account, meaning Dundee's pdf submission (weirdos) had no chance of getting through. Panicking about the lack of other options, the SPFL published the partial results to try and put some pressure on. Dundee, realising that they were suddenly kingmakers, saw the opportunity to try and turn it to their advantage and withdrew their vote. Celtic and possibly others have piled in, either to tell them to forget league reconstruction or to coerce them in other ways. After putting out a bunch of word salad statements, Dundee don't know what to do and now stand to look like total fuds if they change their vote because they've had their bluff called/been bribed. 

IMO.

[Bishop Briggs]

30 minutes ago, C4mmy31 said:

If this is indeed genuine, its getting farcical now.....

 

"entirely our option to resubmit our reject vote".   No!

 

If a Dundee official has said in writing that the club submitted a reject vote, it should be possible to confirm that it was sent.

There is an alleged copy of Dundee's vote on the Championship forum.

 

I can see this farce ending up in the civil, or even the criminal, courts. 

[Nightmare]

5 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

The thing that nobody seems to have picked up from this mess, is why any organisation would release the result of any vote where not everyone has voted, before the actual deadline has passed. The deadline being in 28 days time. It definitely smells, and Dundee not coming out of this well.

Yep. Either set a deadline of 5pm for yesterday, or shut the f**k up until the actual deadline has passed.

It’s either grossly incompetent, or something dodgy is going on. I suppose considering this is Scottish football we’re talking about, it could easily be both.

[Romeo]

They need to come clean about a lot, especially who the "big hitter" was and what's been said.

Our games been through a lot  but this is something you couldn't have envisaged .

"Big Hitters"

 

And that would rule out Rangers.

 

[Bishop Briggs]

3 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said:

1, 2, 3 and 4.

Doncaster hadn't cleared out his ntlworld email account, meaning Dundee's pdf submission (weirdos) had no chance of getting through. Panicking about the lack of other options, the SPFL published the partial results to try and put some pressure on. Dundee, realising that they were suddenly kingmakers, saw the opportunity to try and turn it to their advantage and withdrew their vote. Celtic and possibly others have piled in, either to tell them to forget league reconstruction or to coerce them in other ways. After putting out a bunch of word salad statements, Dundee don't know what to do and now stand to look like total fuds if they change their vote because they've had their bluff called/been bribed. 

IMO.

It should be technically possible to establish whether Dundee submitted a vote. If it did, and the SPFL did not receive, it should be possible to retrieve and validate it.

A vote, if properly cast, cannot be withdrawn. It must stand and any attempt to change it would surely be a criminal act

 

[BawWatchin]

7 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said:

1, 2, 3 and 4.

Doncaster hadn't cleared out his ntlworld email account, meaning Dundee's pdf submission (weirdos) had no chance of getting through. Panicking about the lack of other options, the SPFL published the partial results to try and put some pressure on. Dundee, realising that they were suddenly kingmakers, saw the opportunity to try and turn it to their advantage and withdrew their vote. Celtic and possibly others have piled in, either to tell them to forget league reconstruction or to coerce them in other ways. After putting out a bunch of word salad statements, Dundee don't know what to do and now stand to look like total fuds if they change their vote because they've had their bluff called/been bribed. 

IMO.

Just look who it would cripple if they did change their vote. They'd be heroes.

IMO.

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, BawWatchin said:

Just look who it would cripple if they did change their vote. They'd be heroes.

IMO.

The vote was either submitted or it was not. There will be physical and electronic evidence that will decide that matter. Changing a vote would be a criminal act, both by the person submitting it and the recipient who validates it. 

I assume that the Thistle board and the club's shareholders, including the trusts, will be looking at their legal options.  Then there are the appeal options to UEFA, CAS and the courts.

This debacle will last several weeks. The SPFL is FUBAR and Doncaster's coat must. be on a shoogly peg.

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, Romeo said:

2 hours ago, paranoid android said:

Not quite - Doncaster is clearly culpable. 

You are never happy...

And he's not even a Celtic fan...

[BawWatchin]

4 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

The vote was either submitted or it was not. There will be physical and electronic evidence that will decide that matter. Changing a vote would be a criminal act, both by the person submitting it and the recipient who validates it. 

I assume that the Thistle board and the club's shareholders, including the trusts, will be looking at their legal options.  Then there are the appeal options to UEFA, CAS and the courts.

This debacle will last several weeks. The SPFL is FUBAR and Doncaster's coat must. be on a shoogly peg.

Just an honest technical hitch m8. Things will be cleared up when Dundee's yes vote goes through. They are one of Scotland's largest yes cities afterall.

[Alan Stubbs]

8 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

The vote was either submitted or it was not. There will be physical and electronic evidence that will decide that matter. Changing a vote would be a criminal act, both by the person submitting it and the recipient who validates it. 

I assume that the Thistle board and the club's shareholders, including the trusts, will be looking at their legal options.  Then there are the appeal options to UEFA, CAS and the courts.

This debacle will last several weeks. The SPFL is FUBAR and Doncaster's coat must. be on a shoogly peg.

I obviously agree that the vote that went in should have counted. What law are you saying has been broken though? They apparently have 28 days to vote, a wee 'actually if you've not received it, forget it' is hardly Enron.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Alan Stubbs

[olliethedug]

An apparent message from Dundee admits they're holding off on resubmitting their "no" vote, because they've been approached by a "big hitter" about changing their vote.
It fucking stinks of Celtic trying to muscle in, and if so, I hope they get absolutely fucking destroyed for trying to pull that shite.
Fine them, deduct 20 points, and ban them from next seasons Scottish Cup.

Big team found etc.

[Sinner-to-Saint]

2 hours ago, Frank Grimes said:

Also I should add, are Sevco f**k doing this for any reason other than trying to get one over Timmy

Their recent statements suggesting they have any regard for clubs being unfairly relegated etc is a total smokescreen

They may be right but it’s for the wrong reasons 

"Speculation, your Honour! How can Frank Grimes possibly be certain of the motives of a third person?"

[Jacksgranda]

37 minutes ago, bennett said:

They need to come clean about a lot, especially who the "big hitter" was and what's been said.

Our games been through a lot  but this is something you couldn't have envisaged .

 

35 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

I personally hope it was us tbqh.

"hitter" not "shitter".

[paranoid android]

1 hour ago, BawWatchin said:

Surprised that Hearts are quite happy to see other clubs go to the wall, just so they can cheat relegation?
No, not really.

Why would other clubs go to the wall? 

[Bishop Briggs]

19 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said:

I obviously agree that the vote that went in should have counted. What law are you saying has been broken though? They apparently have 28 days to vote, a wee 'actually if you've not received it, forget it' is hardly Enron.

Conspiring to defraud the clubs that are relegated as a result of the changed vote?

ETA - a lawyer (e.g. Jags CEO Gerry Britton) would be better placed to answer your question. Gerry was clearly involved in the WhatsApp discussion.

We'll probably get another club statement over the couple of days. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Bishop Briggs

[Bishop Briggs]

Latest from BBC - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52253331

"Dundee intended to vote against the proposal to finish the lower league seasons early, but the SPFL says no intimation was ever received from the club.

"BBC Scotland has seen a voting slip from the Championship club, signed and dated by managing director John Nelms, which shows they were voting against.

"But the SPFL say no vote was received from Dundee, whose decision will determine the success of the resolution.

"According to the league, Dundee emailed them after the deadline saying: "Please do not consider our vote cast at this time.""

 

So was the vote sent and then withdrawn?

[Ric]

It sounds awfully like "the cheque is in the post" type excuse if you ask me.

Thing is Dundee can't have it both ways, if they are adamant their vote was sent (even if it never arrived) then they can't suddenly retract it and use it as a bargaining tool.

Got some sympathy for the league reconstruction thing, but clubs should have arranged this as a block and put forward a united (heh, no pun intended) front with all of them abstaining or voting against under the same "reconstruction banner".