The SPFL vote vote

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

No opprobrium from me.

While the reference to excrement in a narrow vessel may have been a generalisation, for the OP to suggest that St. Mirren would be bust () within 18 months without the blue pound is laughable.

I thought, when you called we handsome bluenoses 'h** fucks' and 'thicker than shite in the neck of a bottle' you may have been a tad negative.  Now I see that you meant something entirely different.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Sinner-to-Saint]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Where was this when Falkirk were denied promotion? When Dundee got a record points deduction? 

Hearts are adrift at the bottom of the league halfway through March, and with just 8 games left. Relegating them isn't some crime against humanity FFS.

Hearts could easily have found a bit of form and survived., especially given there would have been plenty of six-pointers in the last five games.

[Ric]

5 minutes ago, The Reverend said:

Hearts could easily have found a bit of form and survived., especially given there would have been plenty of six-pointers in the last five games.

Sorry fellow bud, but that, quite frankly is nonsense.

 

[Munoz]

4 minutes ago, Ric said:

Sorry fellow bud, but that, quite frankly is nonsense.

 

If we had lost our last game to Hearts would you have accepted the same punishment? I personally would have found it a bitter pill to swallow. 

[Sinner-to-Saint]

2 minutes ago, Ric said:

Sorry fellow bud, but that, quite frankly is nonsense.

 

That's quite alright! I can respect a different opinion to mine. The way I see it though, the automatic relegation spot was far from decided, and therefore it is unfair to relegate a club. Especially when by doing so could cost it several million pounds.

[DA Baracus]

59 minutes ago, The Reverend said:

Forgive me if you're simply trolling, but how can it possibly be considered fair to relegate clubs when the whole season hasn't been played? I'm writing this as a supporter of St. Mirren, btw. It's analogous to a game getting called off after 70 minutes and expecting the result to stand. The league had a pre-determined number of games and  now looks to be abandoned three=quarters of the way through (not 100% determined in the Premiership yet, admittedly). It would not be fair to relegate any club, especially given the financial implications. 

Reconstruction is the only fair outcome, IMHO.

No, it isn't analogous to a game being called off after 70 minutes and expecting the result to stand. That game can and would be played at another point.

Due to the global pandemic creating unprecedented circumstances no remaining games this season can be completed.

Reconstruction to save some clubs is not fair just now, and claiming it is whilst relegating teams based on current standings is unfair is a contradiction. 

As noted, this an unprecedented situation. Some teams will suffer. Tough luck. Trying to apply a regular solution to an irregular scenario is pointless, as it can't apply given the very nature.

[Sinner-to-Saint]

1 minute ago, DA Baracus said:

No, it isn't analogous to a game being called off after 70 minutes and expecting the result to stand. That game can and would be played at another point.

Due to the global pandemic creating unprecedented circumstances no remaining games this season can be completed.

Reconstruction to save some clubs is not fair just now, and claiming it is whilst relegating teams based on current standings is unfair is a contradiction. 

As noted, this an unprecedented situation. Some teams will suffer. Tough luck. Trying to apply a regular solution to an irregular scenario is pointless, as it can't apply given the very nature.

Well the remaining league matches could be played in the future. One can argue that clubs may have lost some members of their playing squad, however a replayed game might not include the same starting eleven due to suspensions and injuries for example. So going back to the analogy of the abandoned match, we'd have to assume that it would be unduly troublesome to replay the game.

To make myself perfectly clear, I am advocating that no clubs should be relegated. I believe the Premiership should be increased to 14 clubs, with two clubs promoted and no relegation. Two clubs would be promoted to the Championship, and so on, with no clubs relegated.

It is an unprecedented situation, I agree. But why do clubs need to suffer? I would prefer a Premiership with a 6/8 split. It would be fairer.

[Arch Stanton]

1 minute ago, The Reverend said:

To make myself perfectly clear, I am advocating that no clubs should be relegated.

Naw, f**k that.

Hearts doon for the shits and giggles.

[DA Baracus]

14 minutes ago, The Reverend said:

Well the remaining league matches could be played in the future. One can argue that clubs may have lost some members of their playing squad, however a replayed game might not include the same starting eleven due to suspensions and injuries for example. So going back to the analogy of the abandoned match, we'd have to assume that it would be unduly troublesome to replay the game.

To make myself perfectly clear, I am advocating that no clubs should be relegated. I believe the Premiership should be increased to 14 clubs, with two clubs promoted and no relegation. Two clubs would be promoted to the Championship, and so on, with no clubs relegated.

It is an unprecedented situation, I agree. But why do clubs need to suffer? I would prefer a Premiership with a 6/8 split. It would be fairer.

No, the remaining matches can't be played, not unless you want the remaining matches to be the last matches some clubs ever play.

Such reconstruction is no fairer than relegation. Dundee are 3rd and have a case that they could have won the playoffs and by not gaining promotion they are being made to suffer. In fact every Championship team right down to Morton could make that argument.

There is no fair solution. Some clubs will have to suffer. Tough luck.

[Doctor Sanchez]

2 hours ago, Bohemian said:

I had a quick peep... Wow. Never again, disgusting bunch.  They are off to England again anyway. Thank f**k.

 

But they don't do walking away..?

[The_Judge]

34 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

As noted, this an unprecedented situation. Some teams will suffer. Tough luck. Trying to apply a regular solution to an irregular scenario is pointless, as it can't apply given the very nature.

One of us, one of us, one of us.......

 

[DA Baracus]

4 minutes ago, The_Judge said:

One of us, one of us, one of us.......

 

No. I don't even follow your logic here.

Are you suggesting that my opinion that the leagues should be called as they are, meaning some teams have to take the consequences, fair or not, so that clubs, especially those in the lower leagues, can survive (because calling this season will mean we can at least prepare for next season which will generate some income, such a season ticket sales and sponsorship money, as well as getting the final payout for this season), means that I hate the poor, am a racist, love bankers, am greedy and selfish, endorse corruption to benefit already rich people, want to dismantle the NHS, want to underfund the NHS, endorse the military, wish to cut more services, want to sever ties with a successful trading block to appeal to xenophobic scum just to get a party votes, think the benefits system is acceptable in how it treats people, think that zero hour contracts are a good thing and want to create a society where they are even allowed in the first place let alone encouraged and various other dreadful shit?

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by DA Baracus

[NorthBank]

I am reasonably happy with the League as is but could go along with reconstruction. But let's make it for the following season and see some more frothing at the mouth from Budge.

[Eder]

To be honest this issue overshadows the real issue of how the hell did Hearts manage to finish last in a 12 team league with Ross Co, Hamilton and  St Mirren?  Three clubs with a fraction of the resources and a combined core support less than the Jambos.  They have managed to win a mere 4 games all season and want to use the awful situation to erase the terrible season from the history books.  

The reality is the top league needs Hearts.  A year in the Championship may even do them good and the games against Dundee are something for us all to look forward too.

 

[Hendo]

40 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

I am reasonably happy with the League as is but could go along with reconstruction. But let's make it for the following season and see some more frothing at the mouth from Budge.

Is there a way to relegate Hearts but save Thistle? Maybe a 12-12-10-10 set up? 

[BawWatchin]

2 hours ago, The Reverend said:

Hearts could easily have found a bit of form and survived., especially given there would have been plenty of six-pointers in the last five games.

Hearts last results against the 4 clubs above them

Ross County 0-0 Hearts (22/01/20)

Hearts 2-3 Kilmarnock (5/02/20)

Hearts 2-2 Hamilton (15/02/20)

St Mirren 1-0 Hearts (11/03/20)

Saying "they could easily have found a bit of form" is irrelevant. As you could say the same for the other clubs as well.

[Guest JTS98]

3 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

No, the remaining matches can't be played, not unless you want the remaining matches to be the last matches some clubs ever play.

Such reconstruction is no fairer than relegation. Dundee are 3rd and have a case that they could have won the playoffs and by not gaining promotion they are being made to suffer. In fact every Championship team right down to Morton could make that argument.

There is no fair solution. Some clubs will have to suffer. Tough luck.

That's not quite the same thing though.

For example, my work is almost certainly going to start laying people off soon. They've also, obviously, imposed a hiring freeze.

I know people who had job interviews coming up who have had those job interviews cancelled. They have now lost the chance to get a job. But they never actually had the job in the first place, so they will not be losers in this scenario on the same scale as me or any of my colleagues who are laid off from a job we currently do have and who would lose a salary and benefits that we actually do have just now.

Similarly, Dundee had not actually achieved promotion to the Premiership. They still had considerable work to do for that to happen. They are not having anything other than potential benefit taken away from them. A potential benefit that history tells us they were unlikely to get anyway. They will end this process no worse off than they are now, a Championship club. No real change on or off the pitch. No decline in status. No risk to employment other than the general risk all of society share. Basically, no damage in absolute terms.

Hearts will also be denied the opportunity to improve their lot on the pitch, but, unlike Dundee and Inverness, Hearts will come out of this severely worse off than they are now in terms of income, status, ability to attract players, employment levels etc. Someone who is currently employed by Hearts has more reason to fear for their job based on this decision than someone who works for Dundee. Hearts' income next season will fall massively. Dundee's won't.

To just say that it's not fair on anyone implies an equality of outcome here that does not exist.

It's like arguing that if I lose my job, it's comparable to the situation of people who never worked for us and had their job interviews cancelled.

Edited April 16, 2020 by JTS98

[Guest JTS98]

2 hours ago, Eder said:

To be honest this issue overshadows the real issue of how the hell did Hearts manage to finish last in a 12 team league with Ross Co, Hamilton and  St Mirren?

That's the thing. We didn't.

[Guest JTS98]

2 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

Hearts last results against the 4 clubs above them

Ross County 0-0 Hearts (22/01/20)

Hearts 2-3 Kilmarnock (5/02/20)

Hearts 2-2 Hamilton (15/02/20)

St Mirren 1-0 Hearts (11/03/20)

Saying "they could easily have found a bit of form" is irrelevant. As you could say the same for the other clubs as well.

Last season St Mirren were bottom of the league after 30 games having picked up 5 points out of the previous 33 available to them. Or 9 points out of the previous 48 available, if you prefer.

They had lost 11 out of their previous 16 games.

In the last 8 games they only lost once and stayed up. Arguments pointing to Hearts' form make no sense. Football teams' form changes all the time and sometimes for seemingly no reason.

It's not 'irrelevant' to point to the example of a team in the same situation as us 12 months ago when discussing the fairness of relegating Hearts arbitrarily with 8 games left. We need only look to last season to show how fatuous arguments like "You've been shite all season so deserve to go down" are.

Far from being irrelevant, using the example of a team in the same postion, in the same league, having had a similarly shite season, from just 12 months ago (not the ancient past) is about as relevant as an argument can get.

Edited April 16, 2020 by JTS98

[SlipperyP]

2 hours ago, JTS98 said:

Last season St Mirren were bottom of the league after 30 games having picked up 5 points out of the previous 33 available to them. Or 9 points out of the previous 48 available, if you prefer.

They had lost 11 out of their previous 16 games.

In the last 8 games they only lost once and stayed up. Arguments pointing to Hearts' form make no sense. Football teams' form changes all the time and sometimes for seemingly no reason.

It's not 'irrelevant' to point to the example of a team in the same situation as us 12 months ago when discussing the fairness of relegating Hearts arbitrarily with 8 games left. We need only look to last season to show how fatuous arguments like "You've been shite all season so deserve to go down" are.

Far from being irrelevant, using the example of a team in the same postion, in the same league, having had a similarly shite season, from just 12 months ago (not the ancient past) is about as relevant as an argument can get.

I thought it was because teams started to score or concede  goals.  it's a simple game after all.