The SPFL recommendation?

[Shadwell Dog]

9 hours ago, DiamondJack85 said:

Because there is absolutely no chance of playing out any of the remaining league games never mind play off games. Reconstruction is the only chance of promotion for teams in the play off positions and it sounds like that can't be looked at until this league season is finished.

Theres nothing to stop them saying ok season over positions called and  money out. Right what are we going to do about promotion and relegation.  The league as a whole should be looking properly at how they alleviate the fallout for clubs in relegation positions and promotion playoffs.  The likes of partick will have to cut budgets and fire staff if they are relegated. Surely the bare minimum is financial comp to cover this. 

[Only one David Marsh]

I don't see any football happening anytime soon some experts are saying the UK could have the worst death toll in the EU and we could have another spike in the autumn. I suppose this comes down to the testing for antibodies. I don't agree with games being played behind closed doors as clubs would have no income and would still need to pay furloughed players 100% of their wages since they are technically working again.

[Paco]

Theres nothing to stop them saying ok season over positions called and  money out. Right what are we going to do about promotion and relegation.  The league as a whole should be looking properly at how they alleviate the fallout for clubs in relegation positions and promotion playoffs.  The likes of partick will have to cut budgets and fire staff if they are relegated. Surely the bare minimum is financial comp to cover this. 

The only issue with calling the league now and sorting out promotion/relegation later is it might be impossible to reach a consensus. Airdrie and Montrose, for example, voted for the current proposal because of the ‘carrot’ of the money, but perhaps on a solely promotion/relegation issue they’d settle for nothing less than a promotion. Similar story for all clubs in play-off spots.

Remember the ambition even with current proposals is still reconstruction, but it provides a ‘default’ if nothing can be agreed on. I appreciate I’m looking at it from a position of being happy with the default, I wouldn’t be as relaxed if the default position was no promotion/relegation, but from an administrative perspective I can sympathise with the SPFL to a degree here. You’d be asking clubs to vote purely on self-interest with no ramifications and that’ll never get to a 75% agreement stage.

[Shadwell Dog]

10 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

The only issue with calling the league now and sorting out promotion/relegation later is it might be impossible to reach a consensus. Airdrie and Montrose, for example, voted for the current proposal because of the ‘carrot’ of the money, but perhaps on a solely promotion/relegation issue they’d settle for nothing less than a promotion. Similar story for all clubs in play-off spots.

Remember the ambition even with current proposals is still reconstruction, but it provides a ‘default’ if nothing can be agreed on. I appreciate I’m looking at it from a position of being happy with the default, I wouldn’t be as relaxed if the default position was no promotion/relegation, but from an administrative perspective I can sympathise with the SPFL to a degree here. You’d be asking clubs to vote purely on self-interest with no ramifications and that’ll never get to a 75% agreement stage.

 

You might be right and after exhausting all the avenues and other options you may find that what we have  in this proposal is the only real viable option out there. I doubt it but you never know. Clubs though can at least discuss it properly without a gun being held to their heads regarding prize money.  The clubs that are being fecked over from this will also at least know that everything possible has been done to alleviate their pain. At the moment it's a heres the deal from the spfl board like it or lump it and everyone arguing over promotion/relegation whilst clubs could go to the wall.  To me that's far worse than my proposal. I would include reconstruction in these talks instead of the current we'll maybe talk about it once you vote all this through which quite rightly some folks are willing to accept.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[CALDERON]

17 minutes ago, Only one David Marsh said:

I don't see any football happening anytime soon some experts are saying the UK could have the worst death toll in the EU and we could have another spike in the autumn. I suppose this comes down to the testing for antibodies. I don't agree with games being played behind closed doors as clubs would have no income and would still need to pay furloughed players 100% of their wages since they are technically working again.

There's also the fact that players are not immune to the virus, so could still catch it.  

[Shadwell Dog]

3 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

There's also the fact that players are not immune to the virus, so could still catch it.  

I still think theres serious questions over whether we'll have a 20/21 season at all. Can see clubs being forced to sell season tickets knowing full well that those purchasing might never see a match.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[EdinburghBlue]

Remember the ambition even with current proposals is still reconstruction, but it provides a ‘default’ if nothing can be agreed on. I appreciate I’m looking at it from a position of being happy with the default, I wouldn’t be as relaxed if the default position was no promotion/relegation, but from an administrative perspective I can sympathise with the SPFL to a degree here. You’d be asking clubs to vote purely on self-interest with no ramifications and that’ll never get to a 75% agreement stage.

The ‘default' is surely null and void in the event of nothing else being agreed to?

[CALDERON]

19 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

The only issue with calling the league now and sorting out promotion/relegation later is it might be impossible to reach a consensus. Airdrie and Montrose, for example, voted for the current proposal because of the ‘carrot’ of the money, but perhaps on a solely promotion/relegation issue they’d settle for nothing less than a promotion. Similar story for all clubs in play-off spots.

Remember the ambition even with current proposals is still reconstruction, but it provides a ‘default’ if nothing can be agreed on. I appreciate I’m looking at it from a position of being happy with the default, I wouldn’t be as relaxed if the default position was no promotion/relegation, but from an administrative perspective I can sympathise with the SPFL to a degree here. You’d be asking clubs to vote purely on self-interest with no ramifications and that’ll never get to a 75% agreement stage.

 

Yeah, the SPFL shot their gun far too soon really.  The time for any kind of concrete reconstruction plan has probably passed - as you say if the money is paid out then the incentive is gone for a lot of clubs.  Incredibly difficult to get the required votes through (which would be 11-1 in the Premiership I think?)

The current proposals really needed something far more concrete than "We will talk about reconstruction, honest" as a parting line.  I dont blame any club for voting how they did, quite rightly this is a period of self interest - but there was never any prospect of the vote passing in it's current state - in fact I'm absolutely amazed it's even come down to one club.

It is really tempting to go down the route of seeing the money released now then worry about the rest later (my own club really need it!), however I think that just kicks the can down the road.

This is a total mess and its difficult to see a way out of it.  I started this process utterly against null and void, yet I cant' see any other agreement being made as the situation is now completely toxic, and I would rather see a part time Raith Rovers in League 1 than no Raith Rovers - and the longer this situation goes on the more the latter could become a possibility.  I do think that Full Time football in the Scottish lower leagues has its days numbered (just a gut feeling) and this may well force the hands of a lot of clubs.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by CALDERON

[Guest Ecosse83]

5 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

 

The ‘default' is surely null and void in the event of nothing else being agreed to?

 

Null and void more likely to happen now after the shit show they held on Friday. 

Rangers seem to have a strong hand in all of this and the teams that would be relegated would go to town with the authorities now. 

Seeing as no league's have been won it will probably be easier for them to go down the null and void route to save their own skin. 

[Shadwell Dog]

4 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Yeah, the SPFL shot their gun far too soon really.  The time for any kind of concrete reconstruction plan has probably passed - as you say if the money is paid out then the incentive is gone for a lot of clubs.  Incredibly difficult to get the required votes through (which would be 11-1 in the Premiership I think?)

The current proposals really needed something far more concrete than "We will talk about reconstruction, honest" as a parting line.  I dont blame any club for voting how they did, quite rightly this is a period of self interest - but there was never any prospect of the vote passing in it's current state - in fact I'm absolutely amazed it's even come down to one club.

It is really tempting to go down the route of seeing the money released now then worry about the rest later (my own club really need it!), however I think that just kicks the can down the road.

This is a total mess and its difficult to see a way out of it.  I started this process utterly against null and void, yet I cant' see any other agreement being made as the situation is now completely toxic, and I would rather see a part time Raith Rovers in League 1 than no Raith Rovers - and the longer this situation goes on the more the latter could become a possibility.  I do think that Full Time football in the Scottish lower leagues has its days numbered (just a gut feeling) and this may well force the hands of a lot of clubs.

 

 

I was not surprised it was close but I was surprised it was backed by so many clubs.  Questions have to be asked on why the likes of montrose who had come put so vehemently against it quoting sporting integrity suddenly changed their minds totally and voted yes basically overnight. What was done to persuade them to change their mind or were they taking the piss all along. Same with Dumbarton.

[CALDERON]

4 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

I was not surprised it was close but I was surprised it was backed by so many clubs.  Questions have to be asked on why the likes of montrose who had come put so vehemently against it quoting sporting integrity suddenly changed their minds totally and voted yes basically overnight. What was done to persuade them to change their mind or were they taking the piss all along. Same with Dumbarton.

I dont know about Montrose, but I don't think anyone asked Dumbarton as a board how they were going to vote.  Jim Duffy was quoted as saying he wanted to finish the season, but Jim Duffy was never ever going to be the one voting.  

[Scary Bear]

11 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Yeah, the SPFL shot their gun far too soon really.  The time for any kind of concrete reconstruction plan has probably passed - as you say if the money is paid out then the incentive is gone for a lot of clubs.  Incredibly difficult to get the required votes through (which would be 11-1 in the Premiership I think?)

The current proposals really needed something far more concrete than "We will talk about reconstruction, honest" as a parting line.  I dont blame any club for voting how they did, quite rightly this is a period of self interest - but there was never any prospect of the vote passing in it's current state - in fact I'm absolutely amazed it's even come down to one club.

It is really tempting to go down the route of seeing the money released now then worry about the rest later (my own club really need it!), however I think that just kicks the can down the road.

This is a total mess and its difficult to see a way out of it.  I started this process utterly against null and void, yet I cant' see any other agreement being made as the situation is now completely toxic, and I would rather see a part time Raith Rovers in League 1 than no Raith Rovers - and the longer this situation goes on the more the latter could become a possibility.  I do think that Full Time football in the Scottish lower leagues has its days numbered (just a gut feeling) and this may well force the hands of a lot of clubs.

 

 

Difficult to see a way out of it? Why not just wait and see what UEFA tell them to do. Then do it. Whether that is award leagues on current placings, null and void or some other solution.

[Shadwell Dog]

Just now, CALDERON said:

I dont know about Montrose, but I don't think anyone asked Dumbarton as a board how they were going to vote.  Jim Duffy was quoted as saying he wanted to finish the season, but Jim Duffy was never ever going to be the one voting.  

You'd wonder why dumbarton would allow their  manager to publicly state a totally different viewpoint than them. Whose in charge at dumbarton if anyone?

[Shadwell Dog]

4 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

Difficult to see a way out of it? Why not just wait and see what UEFA tell them to do. Then do it. Whether that is award leagues on current placings, null and void or some other solution.

And when UEFA say seasons over. Up to you how you finish it though we'll be back to square one. The most you'll.get from them is you cant null and void but that's never been on the table up here anyway.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[Scary Bear]

1 minute ago, Shadwell Dog said:

And when UEFA say seasons over. Up to you how you finish it though we'll be back up to square one.

I’m which case, I’d take the approach Belgium took. 

[CALDERON]

2 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

You'd wonder why dumbarton would allow their  manager to publicly state a totally different viewpoint than them. Whose in charge at dumbarton if anyone?

"Football People" will want the season finished, thats just natural.

That's why Neil Mccann was on Sportsound saying the season must be finished as Celtic will want to win the treble under their own steam.

A football managers perspective and a business perspective wont be the same. 

[Cosmic Joe]

9 hours ago, craigkillie said:

East Fife voted against it for exactly this reason (no matter how they dress it up otherwise).

I can assure you that East Fife's statement reflected what was discussed and agreed by a majority of Directors at two Board Meetings last week.

[Shadwell Dog]

Just now, CALDERON said:

"Football People" will want the season finished, thats just natural.

That's why Neil Mccann was on Sportsound saying the season must be finished as Celtic will want to win the treble under their own steam.

A football managers perspective and a business perspective wont be the same. 

I know that but would you allow john mcglynn on the eve a vote to come out and say one thing when you as a board have an entirely different view.  If lee miller publicly  had said I think we should be voting yes I dont think our bod would be very happy with him.  The club should have one public view coming out but that's just my opinion.

[Shadwell Dog]

6 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

I’m which case, I’d take the approach Belgium took. 

Belgium have already started backtracking  whilst  all they had done was crowned their top league champions anyway. They hadn't decided anything re promotion and relegation.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[DiamondJack85]

11 minutes ago, Ecosse83 said:

Null and void more likely to happen now after the shit show they held on Friday. 

Rangers seem to have a strong hand in all of this and the teams that would be relegated would go to town with the authorities now. 

Seeing as no league's have been won it will probably be easier for them to go down the null and void route to save their own skin. 

By all accounts null and void is out the question, the Ayr chairman who was all for it even said after advice from the SPFL that this was now not an option. I'd imagine wiping this season from the history books could end up a legal minefield as potentially sponsors, TV and even us fans (not that many would I dont think, but it is left open to) could all request money back for a season that never was.

As mentioned above...is this also the reason the SPFL are pushing for the default 1 up, 1 down resolution by default as if there are no promotion/relegation confirmed at the end of the season, it could be seen as still a null and void season despite crowning champions is each division? Not sure exactly how a season ending is defined legally but failure to get all clubs to agree on promotion/relegation after the season has officially ended could indeed see us replaying last season again.