The SPFL recommendation?

[Shadwell Dog]

Just now, San Starko Rover said:

 

You don’t know Hearts we’re going down that is speculation while unlikely they could with 8 games left have overtaken County.

 

I was trying to show that at least one or two clubs were not voting on self interest but I'm happy to say that no they're all voting on self interest even hibs who are more about shifting hearts than anyone else.  Not the nicest thing to see but hardly surprising the way the votes been manufactured.

[Shadwell Dog]

Just now, Rovers2017 said:

Out of curiosity, please can someone clarify this for me. Do all three leagues (I'm aware League 1 and 2 are joint in this) have to agree, or is it a case only 2/3 is required? 

All 3 have to pass 75 percent. Still no idea why they feel they need to stick the seaside in one vote but hey ho that's the way it is.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[San Starko Rover]

Pretty much everyone will vote on self interest anyone claiming otherwise (including our board) is full of it. Be it for promotion, to avoid relegation, to get cash quicker or to effect which teams will be in their division next season. The entire set up of Scottish football and cash is done selfishly. Our top division was known for years as the Self Preservation League.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, San Starko Rover said:

Pretty much everyone will vote on self interest anyone claiming otherwise (including our board) is full of it. Be it for promotion, to avoid relegation, to get cash quicker or to effect which teams will be in their division next season. The entire set up of Scottish football and cash is done selfishly. Our top division was known for years as the Self Preservation League.

The exact same reason why lower league teams resisted a pyramid set up for so long.

[Shadwell Dog]

3 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

Pretty much everyone will vote on self interest anyone claiming otherwise (including our board) is full of it. Be it for promotion, to avoid relegation, to get cash quicker or to effect which teams will be in their division next season. The entire set up of Scottish football and cash is done selfishly. Our top division was known for years as the Self Preservation League.

That's why they should've taken the money out the picture.  You've then got clubs able to vote with a clear head instead of being blackmailed to vote yes by a desperation for cash.

[Nowhereman]

That's why they should've taken the money out the picture.  You've then got clubs able to vote with a clear head instead of being blackmailed to vote yes by a desperation for cash.

You’ve shouted long and hard about how this would be unfair. As far as I can see the only clubs who can really complain are Hearts, Thistle and Falkirk. 3 out of 42 . What would be your fairer solution?

[San Starko Rover]

The exact same reason why lower league teams resisted a pyramid set up for so long.

Absolutely, and it still stands today 0.5 teams relegated out of L2 and the Lowland league isn’t much better. Every team in Scotland will have gained points unfairly in the last few years through players diving and bad decisions and not a single one will have demanded the game be replayed. We’ve all taken the points and ran. Teams are businesses and will do what is best for themselves, fans are blinkered and will want what is best for their teams.

[Gordon EF]

33 minutes ago, stevoraith said:

So the smaller clubs get their prize money without having to vote on declaring champions etc now (fair way to do it I agree).

But they still want clarity now on what the league is going to look like next season- they don't want to kick the can months down the road.

Most of the smaller teams will want to know what league they will be playing in and who else will be in that league so they can budget accordingly.

And more imprtantly, once you have that tied down, you can then work on contingency plans for what to do if we can't restart on the nominal first day of the season.

 

It looks like this will go on for months yet, time would be better spent getting prmootion and relegation sorted ASAP and then you can get leagues sorted with plans for what you're going to do if you only have time for 27 games, or 18 games, or 9 games........

 

I still don't see hy you think the small teams all of a sudden hold all the aces in this position.

I think there's a bit of a false dichotomy getting thrown around as if Yes means certainty and No means everything is up in the air.

Next season could be massively impacted by lockdowns whatever way the vote goes. It may not be able to start on time. That is a far bigger level of uncertainty than which league you might be in and which one or two clubs might be or not be in it with you.

Also, voting No doesn't mean we all just free-wheel towards some disastrous unknowable future. If this doesn't pass, other proposals will be voted on.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Gordon EF

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, ribzanelli said:

So what actual difference is there to Falkirk whether Raith and Partick switch places?

Have you pressed the Falkirk board to be more honest and admit that you fancy your chances in league 1 more next season with Raith and Stranraer in it rather than Partick and Cove?

The honest difference is probably around £15,000. They could reasonably expect 1000 total more attending the two Partick games at TFS than the Raith games. Most other League One teams would see a similar percentage increase in their home crowds, so Partick replacing Raith is a win for League One coffers. As a comparison, QoS coming down would be a net loss of attendance.

Financially speaking, it makes sense for the League One teams, excepting Falkirk and Stranraer, to vote for. By the same token, while the Championship will lose a little trading Partick for Raith, they would gain hugely from Hearts replacing Dundee United. Financially, it makes sense for all but Partick to vote yes. The Premiership has other considerations, but League Two would be the losers in a swap of Cove and Stranraer...another reason for League One to vote yes.

From a strictly self-interest point of view, this vote should pass because it pays immediately, and it pays down the road for most teams. The exceptions are League Two, who are all so skint that they simply want the money and assurance of the season being ended, Falkirk, Partick and Hearts. Sevco have different considerations, and might just need the cash, despite their public protestations.

On to the suggestion about Falkirk preferring League One with Raith and Stranraer, yea, that’s pretty much true. The increased attendance cash would be merely a drop in the bucket though. It does make me wonder about the true financial state at TFS, however. The BoD have said recently that FFC are running a balanced budget, but that may not be completely honest. I suspect that is outside of “extraordinary charges”, but if true, it does suggest that Falkirk can afford to stay in League One another year. Falkirk’s statements don’t seem to back up that assessment, so it makes me wonder just what is hidden in those accounting statements.

[Shadwell Dog]

5 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

You’ve shouted long and hard about how this would be unfair. As far as I can see the only clubs who can really complain are Hearts, Thistle and Falkirk. 3 out of 42 . What would be your fairer solution?

Any club in a promotion playoff spot can say it's unfair to be honest. So it's far more than just 3. I've no problem stopping the league now and giving out prize money but that shouldn't be based on clubs agreeing to one proposal on promotion and relegation flung together after very little discussion. Have we exhausted all possibilities I very much doubt it. Are there other proposals out there that should be discussed undoubtedly as we're getting clubs putting ideas forward now having been given it would seem no opportunity before.  Stop the league, pay out the money but let's not decide anything else yet till we have a good look at what all the options are. No other league in europe are asking their clubs to decide on who gets promoted or relegated the now. Even belgium are backtracking and haven't decided on who goes down from their top flight.  Leagues aren't finalised normally to the end of may so that gives us what well over a month to discuss this properly.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[ribzanelli]

2 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Any club in a promotion playoff spot can say it's unfair to be honest. So it's far more than just 3

If it comes down to a straight shoot out between promote the top team versus void the season then it makes no difference, both are equally fair/unfair. It would simply come down to do you fancy your chances more next season against Partick/Cove or Raith/Stranraer. I think most people have reached acceptance that the season and playoffs are gone

[Shadwell Dog]

4 minutes ago, ribzanelli said:

If it comes down to a straight shoot out between promote the top team versus void the season then it makes no difference, both are equally fair/unfair. It would simply come down to do you fancy your chances more next season against Partick/Cove or Raith/Stranraer. I think most people have reached acceptance that the season and playoffs are gone

It's still unfair no matter how you look at it as they are losing out on a chance of promotion . Ask edinburgh city if they're happy to come second and get feck all. They will say no it's very unfair as we are losing out on a playoff they would have fancied there chances at winning.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

 

[CALDERON]

Fake news. 

[Shadwell Dog]

3 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Fake news. 

How can it be passed by one.

[TxRover]

18 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

It's still unfair no matter how you look at it as they are losing out on a chance of promotion . Ask edinburgh city if they're happy to come second and get feck all. They will say no it's very unfair as we are losing out on a playoff they would have fancied there chances at winning.

But payout now and decide later takes, for those teams considering themselves “in the race”, the ability to sell season tickets away. If you don’t know what League you will be in, you can’t sell the tickets. Plus, who is in the race? Let’s look at League One.

Falkirk, Montrose and Airdrie are “in the race”, and East Fife suggests they should be (based upon positions after 3/4 of the season versus current standings). In a simple promote two or such situation, only Falkirk benefit, the others are out of it. We also know that promotion playoffs are most often a crap shoot so...

...let’s promote Raith and then flip coins, eh? OK, so Falkirk pick heads and defeat Airdrie, while Montrose pick tails and defeat Partick. Then Falkirk  pick heads and lose to Montrose, who are promoted. Happy? East Fife aren’t either!

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, Zen Archer Esq. said:

 

His last exclusive was Celtic signing Gary Cahill.

[Shadwell Dog]

4 minutes ago, TxRover said:

But payout now and decide later takes, for those teams considering themselves “in the race”, the ability to sell season tickets away. If you don’t know what League you will be in, you can’t sell the tickets. Plus, who is in the race? Let’s look at League One.

Falkirk, Montrose and Airdrie are “in the race”, and East Fife suggests they should be (based upon positions after 3/4 of the season versus current standings). In a simple promote two or such situation, only Falkirk benefit, the others are out of it. We also know that promotion playoffs are most often a crap shoot so...

...let’s promote Raith and then flip coins, eh? OK, so Falkirk pick heads and defeat Airdrie, while Montrose pick tails and defeat Partick. Then Falkirk  pick heads and lose to Montrose, who are promoted. Happy? East Fife aren’t either!

So let's say theres no covid. How many teams in the leagues would be selling season tickets just now anyway. Would raith be selling them? Would falkirk? Would airdrie or east fife? No they'd be waiting till whatever league they were in was confirmed.  The leagues aren't all normally decided till end of may. Falkirk normally start selling seasons around the month of june. It would be no different this year.  I'm not talking about discussing this for months ad infinitum. There would have to be a cut off date of say end of may but that's better than getting a proposal on a wed and having to vote on it two days later.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[ribzanelli]

13 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

It's still unfair no matter how you look at it as they are losing out on a chance of promotion . Ask edinburgh city if they're happy to come second and get feck all. They will say no it's very unfair as we are losing out on a playoff they would have fancied there chances at winning.

Of course it’s unfair but you are making out that one is more unfair than the other and I’m trying to point out they are equally unfair. Voting against having Raith promoted is not going to change where you play next year, although it will decide who one of your opponents are

[renton]

Well, that's 5.01pm.

See you all back in here in two weeks for round 2?