The SPFL recommendation?

[Diamonds are Forever]

4 minutes ago, renton said:

You think we'll find out today?

I imagine the SPFL already has a pretty decent nose count of where everyone stands, one way or the other already.

 

I'd imagine most clubs will reveal what they voted for and try and explain it to their fans.

[Yoss]

57 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Tosh theres no way in hell he would be voting yes if raith were in our position just as theres no way we would be voting no in your position.  Imagine we'd gone top the last weekend before the matches stopped.  Yes I'm sure he'd still be voting yes in that case . Feck me.

I don't know whether we would or not - but I've no idea why you're saying this with such confidence. As renton says there are other clubs who aren't in the frame for promotion who seem likely to vote for it, so why might we not be one of them?

To repeat myself from last night - the second-placed teams are not the potential injured parties from today's vote. Sure, they're disadvantaged by the fact that we're not going to finish the season, but that ship has sailed. They're not affected by the vote on whether the team above them is allowed promotion or not. And all of this would still have been true had it been us in second rather than you, and I can't speak for our chairman but I'm pretty sure that I, at least, would have bee clear-eyed enough to realise that.

[Diamonds are Forever]

9 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Virtually every club is agreeing that the league will need to finish now. The major disagreements are on the issues caused by that and how to deal with it. That needs more discussion and that has been the reasons why a lot of the no clubs have come to that conclusion it  would seem. You'd think under the circumstances an agreement could be put forward to end the season with no agreement yet on promotion, relegation etc. The money can then get distributed and then begins a good proper discussion on what happens next.

 

I get the impression some clubs are still in denial about the season ending. Like I say, once there is an acceptance that the season cannot be completed then the likes of Airdrie have no way of promotion anymore no matter how the standings are decided. I think clubs in our position will want clarity and be willing to accept the 'first offer' as it were just to move on.

This is based on nothing other than my opinion, could be completely wrong.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Diamonds are Forever

[pantene proV]

8 minutes ago, renton said:

You think we'll find out today?

I imagine the SPFL already has a pretty decent nose count of where everyone stands, one way or the other already.

Cant imagine they'll release an official statement on a Good Friday night, monday would be my guess 

But they are tin pot so who knows 

[Shadwell Dog]

5 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

I get the impression some clubs are still in denial about the season ending. Like I say, once there is an acceptance that the season cannot be completed then the likes of Airdrie have no way of promotion anymore no matter how the standings are decided. I think clubs in our position will want clarity and be willing to accept the 'first offer' as it were just to move on.

This is based on nothing other than my opinion, could be completely wrong.

Our chairman has agreed that it's highly unlikely any games will get finished we're simply wanting proper and in depth discussion on what happens next.

[Diamonds are Forever]

9 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Our chairman has agreed that it's highly unlikely any games will get finished we're simply wanting proper and in depth discussion on what happens next.

 

But that is because alternative options that have been touted could result in you getting promoted. You have something to hang on and wait for, and can push a case for Falkirk getting promoted.

An Airdrie or East Fife doesn't. We'll be in this league next season regardless now and therefore I think those clubs might be tempted to just vote Yes and get on with it. I am not saying they would be right to do this, and they may well not do it. Just trying to think what their long term goal of voting No would be.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Diamonds are Forever

[Shadwell Dog]

1 minute ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

But that is because alternative options that have been touted could result in you getting promoted. You have something to hang on and wait for, and can push a case for Falkirk getting promoted.

An Airdrie or East Fife doesn't. We'll be in this league next season regardless now and therefore I think those clubs might be tempted to just vote Yes and get on with it. I am not saying they would be right to do this, and they may well not do it. Just trying to think what their long term goal of voting No would be.

How do you know that? You may have the chance to influence a vote on reconstruction which sees a bigger second flight for all you know.  If the clubs were given the cash now but no vote I reckon the likes of airdrie would be quite happy to see where things go from here.   That's the whole issue for me clubs are being forced into making a decision now just to survive. 

[Diamonds are Forever]

5 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

How do you know that? You may have the chance to influence a vote on reconstruction which sees a bigger second flight for all you know.  If the clubs were given the cash now but no vote I reckon the likes of airdrie would be quite happy to see where things go from here.   That's the whole issue for me clubs are being forced into making a decision now just to survive. 

 

I don't know that, that's what I'm saying, I'm trying to think why we would vote No. If it is because we want promotion from this league then that isn't going to happen. There may be the option of a roundabout way of 'promotion' of sorts via reconstruction in which case the clubs may vote No. But the clubs voting No would need to really want reconstruction, think there was an appetite for it and be willing to risk months more in limbo to try and get it. Are East Fife and Montrose going to go for that? Or League 2 play-off teams. I personally think reconstruction in the current climate is madness, but that's not really relevant to the point.

I agree with you that if possible buying some time to discuss this properly is the best option. I am just trying judge how clubs will vote given the current options. I may well be completely wrong.

[stuartcraig]

9 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

I don't know that, that's what I'm saying, I'm trying to think why we would vote No. If it is because we want promotion from this league then that isn't going to happen. There may be the option of a roundabout way of 'promotion' of sorts via reconstruction in which case the clubs may vote No. But the clubs voting No would need to really want reconstruction, think there was an appetite for it and be willing to risk months more in limbo to try and get it. Are East Fife and Montrose going to go for that? Or League 2 play-off teams. I personally think reconstruction in the current climate is madness, but that's not really relevant to the point.

I agree with you that if possible buying some time to discuss this properly is the best option. I am just trying judge how clubs will vote given the current options. I may well be completely wrong.

Apologies if this has been suggested before but, if promotion/relegation was to be decided based on current league position and with teams missing out on a playoff opportunity, the prize money should be reallocated to compensate the teams who are disadvantaged by this outcome.

Raith and Falkirk can have their promotion without having to play to the end of the scheduled season or through a play off but their share of the prize money for this season and some of next should be distributed to the teams staying in League One / relegated from the Championship.

[Airdrie76]

 
I don't know that, that's what I'm saying, I'm trying to think why we would vote No. If it is because we want promotion from this league then that isn't going to happen. There may be the option of a roundabout way of 'promotion' of sorts via reconstruction in which case the clubs may vote No. But the clubs voting No would need to really want reconstruction, think there was an appetite for it and be willing to risk months more in limbo to try and get it. Are East Fife and Montrose going to go for that? Or League 2 play-off teams. I personally think reconstruction in the current climate is madness, but that's not really relevant to the point.
I agree with you that if possible buying some time to discuss this properly is the best option. I am just trying judge how clubs will vote given the current options. I may well be completely wrong.

Why would a one (or say two) season reconstruction to try and find a fair fix for this mess be madness? There’s various suggestions floating about that could be used to allow it to happen.

[Diamonds are Forever]

27 minutes ago, Airdrie76 said:

Why would a one (or say two) season reconstruction to try and find a fair fix for this mess be madness? There’s various suggestions floating about that could be used to allow it to happen.

 

1) The structure of our league was not part of the problem. Therefore I'm not sure why changing the structure is seen as part of the solution. Every league in Europe has had the same issues with every league structure you can imagine.

2) Reconstruction doesn't fix the issue of unfairness anyway. Who decides who joins what league if it's restructured? Is that done on current placings? In which case that's no fairer than current situation, it just shifts the problem one stop down the tracks. I don't see how it fixes any problem?

3) Scottish football struggles to organise anything at the best of times. If we are going to restructure there needs to be proper consultation with fans, clubs, sponsors, TV companies etc and clubs given time to prepare for it. That's difficult at any time but at a point where businesses are shut and it's difficult to even have a meeting that would be impossible to do properly. Doing some rush job at a time when there is a huge business uncertainty is setting it up for failure.

4) There is no certainty that when lockdown ends that will be the end of it, there is a decent chance there could be further lockdown during next season. That would be an issue with any league structure but having a 'known quantity' structure with proper contingency plans is a much better option than trying a brand new setup that we've never tried before.

5) The focus must be on getting this season finished in as 'least unfair' way as possible (that is the debatable bit). Then start planning for next season with the main focus being on contingency planning if the virus comes back during next season. If people want reconstruction then great, but that can wait until we are through this and we are in an appropriate position to plan it properly.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Diamonds are Forever

[Shadwell Dog]

Finally some good news.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52230194

[Shadwell Dog]

4 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

1) The structure of our league was not part of the problem. Therefore I'm not sure why changing the structure is seen as part of the solution. Every league in Europe has had the same issues with every league structure you can imagine.

2) Reconstruction doesn't fix the issue of unfairness anyway. Who decides who joins what league if it's restructured? Is that done on current placings? In which case that's no fairer than current situation, it just shifts the problem one stop down the tracks. I don't see how it fixes any problem?

3) Scottish football struggles to organise anything at the best of times. If we are going to restructure there needs to be proper consultation with fans, clubs, sponsors, TV companies etc and clubs given time to prepare for it. That's difficult at any time but at a point where businesses are shut and it's difficult to even have a meeting that would be impossible to do properly. Doing some rush job at a time when there is a huge business uncertainty is setting it up for failure.

4) There is no certainty that when lockdown ends that will be the end of it, there is a decent chance there could be further lockdown during next season. That would be an issue with any league structure but having a 'known quantity' structure with proper contingency plans is a much better option than trying a brand new setup that we've never tried before.

5) The focus must be on getting this season finished in as 'least unfair' way as possible (that is the debatable bit). Then start planning for next season with the main focus being on contingency planning if the virus comes back during next season. If people want reconstruction then great, but that can wait until we are through this and we are in an appropriate position to plan it properly.

 

My question is why are we in a rush just now to do all this whilst every other league in europe apart from belgium ,although even they seem to have changed there tune, are nowhere near the stage of deciding who goes up and down in their leagues. Are all the others wrong and we're right?

[AL-FFC]

The main issue thats causing all of this is the fact the new TV deal kicks off next season they want the leagues resolved so the new TV deal can start on time. they just want the vote done so the premiership in any chance can finish thats why they arent announcing them as lets face it its only Rangers, Hearts and Aberdeen that that want it played till the end again for financial reason and for the sake they can say the attempted to overturn a 13 point deficit.

The biggest issues i can take with this apart from the fact its practically blackmailing clubs but its also the way this is being done of course the likes of Dundee Utd, Raith and Brechin are going to vote for it your asking a Turkey to vote if he wants to go in the oven at christmas, the last time a vote like this was held was when we were denied promotion when they gave motherwell a vote on if they  wanted relegated or not.

Once all this is done and dusted Doncaster needs to go he is f**king up the game even more than it already was.

[inreganhendrywetrust]

Raith are not coming out of this looking good. Chairman on sky sports news pleading with clubs to hand them the title and their players are having pops at folk suggesting it should be otherwise. Desperation. Would another year at this level be the end of full time for you or something?

You are a complete and utter p***k - I would love to meet you face to face

[Bairn in Exile]

3 minutes ago, inreganhendrywetrust said:

 

You are a complete and utter p***k - I would love to meet you face to face

 

[Shadwell Dog]

5 minutes ago, inreganhendrywetrust said:

 

You are a complete and utter p***k - I would love to meet you face to face

 

Well seen the schools are off.

[San Starko Rover]

I really hope we don’t end up with two teams going up, it’ll be impossible to social distance in Glasgow with the mass protest against promotion by the Falkirk fans. I assume they’ll stand aside and offer Airdrie their place.

[Wildrover]

From the Spfl rules.Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first league match in a season and ending on the date of the last league match in the same season or otherwise as determined by the board and which excludes the close season.

Ultimately the SPFL board can decide how the season ends with or without the clubs vote, the plan at the moment is unfair to some teams but the best solution I've seen, the amount of heads gone on this post is unreal, would I feel sorry about going up, not a chance, would I want it in Falkirk's position, not a chance.  

[Airdrie76]

 
1) The structure of our league was not part of the problem. Therefore I'm not sure why changing the structure is seen as part of the solution. Every league in Europe has had the same issues with every league structure you can imagine.
2) Reconstruction doesn't fix the issue of unfairness anyway. Who decides who joins what league if it's restructured? Is that done on current placings? In which case that's no fairer than current situation, it just shifts the problem one stop down the tracks. I don't see how it fixes any problem?
3) Scottish football struggles to organise anything at the best of times. If we are going to restructure there needs to be proper consultation with fans, clubs, sponsors, TV companies etc and clubs given time to prepare for it. That's difficult at any time but at a point where businesses are shut and it's difficult to even have a meeting that would be impossible to do properly. Doing some rush job at a time when there is a huge business uncertainty is setting it up for failure.
4) There is no certainty that when lockdown ends that will be the end of it, there is a decent chance there could be further lockdown during next season. That would be an issue with any league structure but having a 'known quantity' structure with proper contingency plans is a much better option than trying a brand new setup that we've never tried before.
5) The focus must be on getting this season finished in as 'least unfair' way as possible (that is the debatable bit). Then start planning for next season with the main focus being on contingency planning if the virus comes back during next season. If people want reconstruction then great, but that can wait until we are through this and we are in an appropriate position to plan it properly.
 

1. Because it allows the least unfair solution to the problem we are in.
2. It goes a long way. If teams in promotion spots and play off positions can be seen to not be losing out then surely that lessens the unfairness? Granted there will be some that still feel aggrieved but you limiting this.
3. Agree with regards to we’re poor at organising. However these are unprecedented times. The TV companies care about having four old firm games and being able to show either or both as much as they possibly can. I’m sure they’ll be fine.
4. Agree again with the point of another potential lockdown. I don’t see how we would have proper contingency plans as things stand (see point 3) as you’ve stated. That needs addressing regardless. And we’re rushing things through here regardless by trying to squeeze clubs into accepting something by withholding their money.
5. See point 1 and 2