The SPFL recommendation?

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, lorenzo71 said:

Good luck with that.

Football is our national game so it should get a bailout but clubs are not banks so we are probably screwed.

Really, what about fishing? Lots of fishing clubs will be in trouble will they get a hand out, or any other sport or pass time?

They are businesses benefiting from the same Government relief as any other. I don't want my tax to increase in the future because any SPFL clubs have been bailed out. Find the money from your own support or raise it by other means.

Football clubs are not entitled to exist at tax or rate payers expense.

[roman_bairn]

Really, what about fishing? Lots of fishing clubs will be in trouble will they get a hand out, or any other sport or pass time? They are businesses benefiting from the same Government relief as any other. I don't want my tax to increase in the future because any SPFL clubs have been bailed out. Find the money from your own support or raise it by other means. Football clubs are not entitled to exist at tax or rate payers expense.

 

 

But Rugby League clubs are? As has already been demonstrated by Westminster… 

“Chief Secretary to the Treasury Steve Barclay, a former player and keen rugby league fan, said the money will throw a lifeline to scores of clubs threatened with closure.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s rescue deal will be available in the form of interest-free loans from Sport England and are designed to help clubs get back on their feet after weeks of lost revenue following the coronavirus lockdown.

The cash injection is a major boost as England prepares to host the 2021 Rugby League World Cup — and comes amid dire warnings that the Covid-19 shutdown could wipeout the sport.

RFL chief executive Ralph Rimmer claimed the pandemic threatens the very existence of the game, while Hull KR owner Neil Hudgell said rugby league could “cease to exist” as a full-time sport.

Treasury insiders revealed Lancashire-born Mr Barclay had personally championed the sport in government and ensured it was handed the money it needs to survive.

Mr Barclay told The Sun: “This is a bruising and brilliant sport, sadly brought to its knees by Covid-19.

“Rugby League is close to my heart and to communities across the north””

 

Surely it’s not unreasonable to offer interest free loans to Scottish clubs to survive?…

 

 

[haufdaft]

,

 
Surely it’s not unreasonable to offer interest free loans to Scottish clubs to survive?…
 
 

Or is it an advance? [emoji1787]

[Shadwell Dog]

1 hour ago, AL-FFC said:

Doncaster calling for a Scottish Govt bailout to help clubs survive.

He's highlighting the fact that our clubs rely much more on gates receipts than others.  Well that's maybe because he cant organise a decent tv deal or get any bloody main sponsor .

[Shadwell Dog]

18 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Really, what about fishing? Lots of fishing clubs will be in trouble will they get a hand out, or any other sport or pass time?

They are businesses benefiting from the same Government relief as any other. I don't want my tax to increase in the future because any SPFL clubs have been bailed out. Find the money from your own support or raise it by other means.

Football clubs are not entitled to exist at tax or rate payers expense.

Sports scotland has already handed out 16 million quid but I've no idea what sports received this  cash mind you.

[Ivo den Bieman]

39 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Really, what about fishing? Lots of fishing clubs will be in trouble will they get a hand out, or any other sport or pass time?

They are businesses benefiting from the same Government relief as any other. I don't want my tax to increase in the future because any SPFL clubs have been bailed out. Find the money from your own support or raise it by other means.

Football clubs are not entitled to exist at tax or rate payers expense.

100% right. The level of entitlement is extraordinary.

Millions of people will lose their jobs across the UK, our lives have been changed fundamentally in the last few weeks, and there will be no going back to the old normal. That life has gone. Many of those furloughed won't have jobs to go back to and there will be an enormous mental health payload to deal with in the years ahead. These out of a long list are far ahead in the queue for government support, during and after the crisis, than football.

It will be *extremely* sad if clubs disappear as a result of this but utterly inconsequential in the bigger scheme of things. I say this as someone who has chucked money in a bucket for Morton and Raith in the past, and contributed to other clubs' fundraisers during this crisis, as well as my own.

Like all other businesses, beyond the short-term relief being offered by governments in Westminster and Edinburgh, football will have to learn to stand on its own. If that means players earning much less and social distancing within much reduced crowds for the foreseeable future, with fans chipping in as they can to ongoing crowdfunding, then so be it. Clubs can't say they haven't had time to try and work things out.

If football's answer to this is to stand by a bucket, hand out, whilst emitting a whining noise then it's not fit for purpose.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Ivo den Bieman

[Sergeant Wilson]

32 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

But Rugby League clubs are? As has already been demonstrated by Westminster… 

“Chief Secretary to the Treasury Steve Barclay, a former player and keen rugby league fan, said the money will throw a lifeline to scores of clubs threatened with closure.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s rescue deal will be available in the form of interest-free loans from Sport England and are designed to help clubs get back on their feet after weeks of lost revenue following the coronavirus lockdown.

The cash injection is a major boost as England prepares to host the 2021 Rugby League World Cup — and comes amid dire warnings that the Covid-19 shutdown could wipeout the sport.

RFL chief executive Ralph Rimmer claimed the pandemic threatens the very existence of the game, while Hull KR owner Neil Hudgell said rugby league could “cease to exist” as a full-time sport.

Treasury insiders revealed Lancashire-born Mr Barclay had personally championed the sport in government and ensured it was handed the money it needs to survive.

Mr Barclay told The Sun: “This is a bruising and brilliant sport, sadly brought to its knees by Covid-19.

“Rugby League is close to my heart and to communities across the north””

 

Surely it’s not unreasonable to offer interest free loans to Scottish clubs to survive?…

 

 

I object to that even more.

RL is a niche sport that practically no-one outside a few counties in Northern England gives a shite about. If those mugs want to watch a load of 'roid ridden numbskulls bumping in to each other, they can pay for it themselves.

[roman_bairn]

100% right. The level of entitlement is extraordinary.
Millions of people will lose their jobs across the UK, our lives have been changed fundamentally in the last few weeks, and there will be no going back to the old normal. That life has gone. Many of those furloughed won't have jobs to go back to and there will be an enormous mental health payload to deal with in the years ahead. These out of a long list are far ahead in the queue for government support, during and after the crisis, than football.
It will be *extremely* sad if clubs disappear as a result of this but utterly inconsequential in the bigger scheme of things. I say this as someone who has chucked money in a bucket for Morton and Raith in the past, and contributed to other clubs' fundraisers during this crisis, as well as my own.
Like all other businesses, beyond the short-term relief being offered by governments in Westminster and Edinburgh, football will have to learn to stand on its own. If that means players earning much less and social distancing within much reduced crowds for the foreseeable future, with fans chipping in as they can to ongoing crowdfunding, then so be it. Clubs can't say they haven't had time to try and work things out.
If football's answer to this is to stand by a bucket, hand out, whilst emitting a whining noise then it's not fit for purpose.

This isn’t about clubs standing on their own feet...it’s about an extraordinary event that few foresaw. I think clubs generally are standing on their own feet but if you have no income and still need to pay wages, rent etc, what are you expected to survive on?
Also, if you are suggesting that players in the lower leagues need to accept even lower wages then I suspect a number of them would just chuck it and get a real job to survive....

[roman_bairn]

Sports scotland has already handed out 16 million quid but I've no idea what sports received this  cash mind you.

Very little of that is going to top flight clubs. A large proportion is going into community ventures just as it should....

 

“Forty nine governing bodies have been given a share of £8.9m, with the remaining £7.5m for community sports hubs, sports clubs and the active schools programme.”

[Ivo den Bieman]

Just now, roman_bairn said:

This isn’t about clubs standing on their own feet...it’s about an extraordinary event that few foresaw. I think clubs generally are standing on their own feet but if you have no income and still need to pay wages, rent etc, what are you expected to survive on?
Also, if you are suggesting that players in the lower leagues need to accept even lower wages then I suspect a number of them would just chuck it and get a real job to survive....

Most players at L1 and L2 level have a "real job" outside of football as most players at our level don't earn enough to survive on football earnings alone.

Your question about what football clubs can be expected to survive on is one that most businesses up and down the UK are grappling with. Why should football clubs be more important than other concerns that provide a living for folk?

 

[roman_bairn]

I object to that even more.

RL is a niche sport that practically no-one outside a few counties in Northern England gives a shite about. If those mugs want to watch a load of 'roid ridden numbskulls bumping in to each other, they can pay for it themselves.

I’ve been to a few Leeds and Widnes games and it’s actually a lot more fun than you describe. 

Its also really important in the eyes of the supporters in those communities and there is a great synergy with that and the lower divisions of Scotland.

Not that that’s the point really.....

 

[Ivo den Bieman]

Peterborough chairman Darragh MacAntony with some interesting thoughts.

Yes, I'm aware that football economics are totally different south of the border (where the whole of L1 and L2 is about to enter a pitiless battle to survive for the next 6 months - a year), but this is the kind of creative thinking that football needs to survive and develop, rather than heading off to a meeting with the Sports Minister looking all biscuit-ersed and hoping for a handout.

[roman_bairn]

Peterborough chairman Darragh MacAntony with some interesting thoughts.
Yes, I'm aware that football economics are totally different south of the border (where the whole of L1 and L2 is about to enter a pitiless battle to survive for the next 6 months - a year), but this is the kind of creative thinking that football needs to survive and develop, rather than heading off to a meeting with the Sports Minister looking all biscuit-ersed and hoping for a handout.

Fuxake, of all the people you quote to me for justification.
I, like several thousand others in this country have been shafted by this man on purchase of overseas properties and await the day with baited breath when we finally can get him behind bars.
In other words, I am personally investing in Peterborough United’s survival (without any say), as he has a few grand of my cash.
That’s how they can stand on their own feet.
Fuming...[emoji49]

[AFC1878]

But Rugby League clubs are? As has already been demonstrated by Westminster… “Chief Secretary to the Treasury Steve Barclay, a former player and keen rugby league fan, said the money will throw a lifeline to scores of clubs threatened with closure.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s rescue deal will be available in the form of interest-free loans from Sport England and are designed to help clubs get back on their feet after weeks of lost revenue following the coronavirus lockdown.
The cash injection is a major boost as England prepares to host the 2021 Rugby League World Cup — and comes amid dire warnings that the Covid-19 shutdown could wipeout the sport.
RFL chief executive Ralph Rimmer claimed the pandemic threatens the very existence of the game, while Hull KR owner Neil Hudgell said rugby league could “cease to exist” as a full-time sport.
Treasury insiders revealed Lancashire-born Mr Barclay had personally championed the sport in government and ensured it was handed the money it needs to survive.
Mr Barclay told The Sun: “This is a bruising and brilliant sport, sadly brought to its knees by Covid-19.
“Rugby League is close to my heart and to communities across the north””
 
Surely it’s not unreasonable to offer interest free loans to Scottish clubs to survive?…
 
 

The only reason Rugby League was bailed out is because England are hosting the World Cup next year.

[Ivo den Bieman]

11 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

Fuxake, of all the people you quote to me for justification.
I, like several thousand others in this country have been shafted by this man on purchase of overseas properties and await the day with baited breath when we finally can get him behind bars.
In other words, I am personally investing in Peterborough United’s survival (without any say), as he has a few grand of my cash.
That’s how they can stand on their own feet.
Fuming...

I'm not "justifying" anything.

Firstly I am sorry you are caught up in his scheme and I hope you will be successful in re-claiming your cash.

Secondly, the fact that you personally have been stung by this guy does not necessarily set aside the content of what he is saying- a trust fund set up to see clubs through the crisis, funded by wealthy investors who will receive a small return on their money as the crisis eases. That sits easier with me that broke-arsed governments (and world governments will be totally broke for the next twenty years on the back of this...it will make the 2008 financial crash and subsequent austerity look like a tea party) being asked to bail out football clubs. If they do that what do they then not support, and on what basis? Even at the best of time public funds are not limitless.

Thirdly, I hate to break it to you, but there's an awful lot of shady characters involved in the funding and owning of football clubs. That makes me even less supportive of government bail-outs.

[lorenzo71]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Really, what about fishing? Lots of fishing clubs will be in trouble will they get a hand out, or any other sport or pass time?

They are businesses benefiting from the same Government relief as any other. I don't want my tax to increase in the future because any SPFL clubs have been bailed out. Find the money from your own support or raise it by other means.

Football clubs are not entitled to exist at tax or rate payers expense.

Fishing is not a national spectator sport or even close to the popularity football gets/has.Football clubs are also important contributors to the community through many means.For lower league clubs especially it might mean waiving rates etc and the amount of money needed would not be huge.Local businesses are getting 10k grants not loans to help them thru this period.Surely our national games clubs would deserve something not forgetting the jobs they create etc.

But my point was a bigger one...if banks can get bailed out for fucking robbery why shouldnt football clubs?I hope you kicked up a storm back in 2010 when austerity was introduced.Those that tend to agree with bank bailouts are  those that  go on all fours and say 'im ready for m shag now Mr Johnson'.

[roman_bairn]

I'm not "justifying" anything.
Firstly I am sorry you are caught up in his scheme and I hope you will be successful in re-claiming your cash.
Secondly, the fact that you personally have been stung by this guy does not necessarily set aside the content of what he is saying- a trust fund set up to see clubs through the crisis, funded by wealthy investors who will receive a small return on their money as the crisis eases. That sits easier with me that broke-arsed governments (and world governments will be totally broke for the next twenty years on the back of this...it will make the 2008 financial crash and subsequent austerity look like a tea party) being asked to bail out football clubs. If they do that what do they then not support, and on what basis? Even at the best of time public funds are not limitless.
Thirdly, I hate to break it to you, but there's an awful lot of shady characters involved in the funding and owning of football clubs. That makes me even less supportive of government bail-outs.

I’m not suggesting that the Government bails out clubs. However interest free loans with reasonable repayment durations would be a good idea.
Indeed, clubs would need to cut back on non essential spending to repay and that might just result in that kind of mentality within clubs longer term.
Re shady characters in sport. As a Falkirk supporter we nearly ended up with one of the kings of such. Pretty aware of the underlying smell within UK and World football sadly..

[Specky Ginger]

3 hours ago, AL-FFC said:

Doncaster calling for a Scottish Govt bailout to help clubs survive.

I don't want to see any club go to the wall, but if I were the Scottish government I'd be asking the question why clubs need bailed out when they can afford to pay the CEO a bigger salary than the Prime minister and First minister put together, and a bonus equivalent to the salary of three nurses. 

[microdave]

15 minutes ago, lorenzo71 said:

Fishing is not a national spectator sport or even close to the popularity football gets/has.Football clubs are also important contributors to the community through many means.For lower league clubs especially it might mean waiving rates etc and the amount of money needed would not be huge.Local businesses are getting 10k grants not loans to help them thru this period.Surely our national games clubs would deserve something not forgetting the jobs they create etc.

But my point was a bigger one...if banks can get bailed out for fucking robbery why shouldnt football clubs?I hope you kicked up a storm back in 2010 when austerity was introduced.Those that tend to agree with bank bailouts are  those that  go on all fours and say 'im ready for m shag now Mr Johnson'.

^^^Carrie Symonds imo

[AL-FFC]

2 minutes ago, Specky Ginger said:

I don't want to see any club go to the wall, but if I were the Scottish government I'd be asking the question why clubs need bailed out when they can afford to pay the CEO a bigger salary than the Prime minister and First minister put together, and a bonus equivalent to the salary of three nurses. 

What i imagine with him asking for the bailout is for the Premiership clubs as this whole voting farce has exposed how little they give a shite about anything out the top flight.  Again i agree with you on that as it will be those clubs living outwith their means again having not learnt any lessons from the last time they were in administration.