The SPFL recommendation?

[sirscottyoung]

How did there crowds look before the money?  Also, is the money not a bit more than a bonus?  Surely they wouldn't have been signing players straight from the Championship and League 1 off their own back?

Crowds were alright I remember. Maybe 200-350 for a super League game. Guys got decent money too cause of this

I don't think they are as rich as everyone is making out too btw.
Yeah there is a decent amount but their squad size isn't massive. I do know that their success in pulling players is by getting or offering them jobs on the side at various companies. It was sky back in the day that boys got jobs at to go alongside the wages.

[Specky Ginger]

19 minutes ago, Big Fifer said:

 

Kelty's average attendance in 18/19 was 356 based on the LL attendance thread. It was 548 for last season when the money rolled in and they could buy the league. The money they generated from having someone bank roll them, and the increase in attendances caused by the resultant success, would suggest they might struggle if/when that success then tailed off or the bankrolling stopped. And of course there is absolutely no chance they could sign the players they have now without the funding behind the scenes. 

Is it not the case they offer vastly reduced admission prices to season ticket holders of the four senior Fife teams? 

That must help their gates a bit, but is very unlikely to continue if or when they get into the senior league. 

[GNU_Linux]

Is it not the case they offer vastly reduced admission prices to season ticket holders of the four senior Fife teams? 
That must help their gates a bit, but is very unlikely to continue if or when they get into the senior league. 

Kelty are already in a senior league

[Scottydog]

6 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

"Running up further debt"? Do you not mean being mismanaged?
 

Oh dear! This from a guy who’s mismanaged  club As I recall had a players fire sale when it was days from going under just the other season. A club kept alive during that time solely by good will and its director’s willingness to bail it out. Don’t be upset by this it’s simply the hard facts and not uncommon in Scottish football.

Rovers Mismanaged? Yes certainly but mostly so during that relegation season 2016-17 (£600k  loss) when we spunked huge amounts paying and then paying off inept coaches / managers (Locke/Jackson then Hughes). Then again some in 2017-18 (£400k loss) when we threw the kitchen sink at going back up while foolishly still trying to continue to operate as a Championship level club still honouring contracts from the previous season at Championship level wages without championship level average away gates of 900 instead of the 90 we actually achieved (mostly thanks to clubs like Stranraer  bringing less than 20 away fans). Huge cuts in 2018-19 saw the losses cut (£200k) but again a manager and assistant were paid off so the mismanagement as you would term it continued.

So on the whole, mismanagement? Yes clearly some of it undoubtedly is but I’d reckon over all about the same as a good many others. in a nutshell our mismanagement as you call it, is by varying degrees the Rovers board‘s  (mostly  Mr Simm) willingness and ability to meet a shortfall where one arises whilst all the time trying to guide the club in the perceived right direction. Guess what E’mra blue? That same thing is going on in board rooms the length and breadth of Scotland...and everywhere else but with one significant difference. Under scrutiny very few of the sides promoted (or trying for) in the last few seasons would  be able afford to challenge on their gate income alone, most if not all will have had serious financial injections from Some very wealthy people.  Cove, Peterhead, ICT, Ross Co, Livvi, Arbroath, those are just a few of the SPFL clubs along with Brora, Kelty and Inverurie in the lower leagues and anyone of 10 Junior clubs who wouldn’t (simply couldn't possibly) be flying near as high as they are were it down solely to gate revenue. In short without financial support from a millionaire board members they’d be making a loss too. So with that in mind as you said earlier, are those simply cases of naked ambition or are they also mismanagement? Just because they are fortunate enough to be propped up by some rich folks and would otherwise be making a loss are they all mismanaged too?

Edited April 27, 2020 by Scottydog

[kvz2000]

Taking your own self interest out of this , which appears not to be possible , Every club should be backing Rangers in having an external independent enquiry into how our SPFL have handled the vote , then we can move on . Surely we must have clarity on the way the vote was set out , we know that a financial incentive was attached if clubs voted the way the SPFL wanted ( which is wrong ) we know conversations were made between the SPFL and Dundee even after Dundee voted against the plan , we are told the NO was lost which I find difficult to believe for such a important issue , when Dundee said they had sent their vote surely the SPFL had someone capable of checking their email/WhatsApp files ..

Further it is not acceptable for the SPFL to release how clubs had voted while the vote was still in progress , so we have to ask if all the above has been accepted as fact what else has gone on that we don’t know about ....Scottish Football Clubs must put their own interests aside and have a proper enquiry , I read that Rangers already have enough support to have and EGM held where clubs will vote for a proper investigation, why would any club not support this ...... Fairness , Integrity and honesty must prevail , I can’t understand how Doncaster and others are still in position with what we know and if clubs don’t stand together it will be swept under the carpet and they will claim their huge salaries and manipulate things to suit themselves,

[Jack Burton]

Taking your own self interest out of this , which appears not to be possible , Every club should be backing Rangers in having an external independent enquiry into how our SPFL have handled the vote , then we can move on . Surely we must have clarity on the way the vote was set out , we know that a financial incentive was attached if clubs voted the way the SPFL wanted ( which is wrong ) we know conversations were made between the SPFL and Dundee even after Dundee voted against the plan , we are told the NO was lost which I find difficult to believe for such a important issue , when Dundee said they had sent their vote surely the SPFL had someone capable of checking their email/WhatsApp files ..
Further it is not acceptable for the SPFL to release how clubs had voted while the vote was still in progress , so we have to ask if all the above has been accepted as fact what else has gone on that we don’t know about ....Scottish Football Clubs must put their own interests aside and have a proper enquiry , I read that Rangers already have enough support to have and EGM held where clubs will vote for a proper investigation, why would any club not support this ...... Fairness , Integrity and honesty must prevail , I can’t understand how Doncaster and others are still in position with what we know and if clubs don’t stand together it will be swept under the carpet and they will claim their huge salaries and manipulate things to suit themselves,

There already has been an independent investigation by Deloitte which didn't find anything that broke the SPFL rules.

[Nowhereman]

16 minutes ago, kvz2000 said:

Taking your own self interest out of this , which appears not to be possible , Every club should be backing Rangers in having an external independent enquiry into how our SPFL have handled the vote , then we can move on . Surely we must have clarity on the way the vote was set out , we know that a financial incentive was attached if clubs voted the way the SPFL wanted ( which is wrong ) we know conversations were made between the SPFL and Dundee even after Dundee voted against the plan , we are told the NO was lost which I find difficult to believe for such a important issue , when Dundee said they had sent their vote surely the SPFL had someone capable of checking their email/WhatsApp files ..

Further it is not acceptable for the SPFL to release how clubs had voted while the vote was still in progress , so we have to ask if all the above has been accepted as fact what else has gone on that we don’t know about ....Scottish Football Clubs must put their own interests aside and have a proper enquiry , I read that Rangers already have enough support to have and EGM held where clubs will vote for a proper investigation, why would any club not support this ...... Fairness , Integrity and honesty must prevail , I can’t understand how Doncaster and others are still in position with what we know and if clubs don’t stand together it will be swept under the carpet and they will claim their huge salaries and manipulate things to suit themselves,

Rangers have a director onthe SPFL board. If they had any misgivings about the way the vote was carried out he could have raised it with the SPFL board and it would have been discussed. If they felt it wasnt being properly addressed they could then release their information to a wider audience. Instead they say thay have secret information from a whistleblower and manufacture some sort of conspiracy which we all have to guess at.

Rangers have only one agenda here and it has  nothing to do with sporting integrity.

[DA Baracus]

12 hours ago, Scottydog said:

That's a tad ungrateful.

As I recall they took Clyde in when the Bully Wee hadn't a pot to piss in.

 

Seriously though I sympathise with Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and to a lesser extent Stranraer if this 3 x 14 comes to pass. Sad truth is the whole Scottish football set up is a mess and there is no-one size fits all solution and never will be, so all in all it's clearly seek a solution that pisses off the fewest people the least I fear.  As a Rovers fan that's been watching my team stuck in L1 running up further debt for the last 3 years I'm just glad null & void was removed from the equation, another season in L1 could have been enough to kill us off completely. Speaking of pissing off the fewest I am well aware that other than for Rovers and Falkirk the N&V option suited the rest of the league 1 clubs and the same could probably be said for the Championship (other than DUFC), SPFL (other than Celtic) and L2 (other than Cove).

14, 14, 14 is a dreadful idea.

P.S. The Championship and Leagues 1 and 2 are also the SPFL. The top division is not called the SPFL.

Edited April 27, 2020 by DA Baracus

[Scottydog]

57 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

14, 14, 14 is a dreadful idea.

P.S. The Championship and Leagues 1 and 2 are also the SPFL. The top division is not called the SPFL.

T'was a typo, I meant to put FPL as in F*****g premier League

[Clyde01]

14, 14, 14 is a dreadful idea.
P.S. The Championship and Leagues 1 and 2 are also the SPFL. The top division is not called the SPFL.

I am yet to see a decent argument in favour of 14-14-14. What does it actually achieve?

Either we have a terrible 39 game uneven season or we split and play some teams 4 times as now. So there isn’t significantly less repetition.

Of course league 2 are in favour as it allows them to try and shut the trapdoor for a season. Longer term it gives some smaller clubs a chance of getting into tier 2 as well but is that enough of a reason to rip up the current system.

As a Clyde fan you could argue that we would be more established in tier 2 longer term but getting chucked back into the bottom tier to facilitate this is a kick in the stones and not something we should be accepting.

I like the idea of only 3 leagues but I think at least one of those (not the premier obviously) should be a bigger league of 18-20 clubs only playing twice. That would at least be a significant step away from the status quo rather than change for the sake of it or to benefit a couple of sides.

[kvz2000]

1 hour ago, Jack Burton said:

1 hour ago, kvz2000 said:

Taking your own self interest out of this , which appears not to be possible , Every club should be backing Rangers in having an external independent enquiry into how our SPFL have handled the vote , then we can move on . Surely we must have clarity on the way the vote was set out , we know that a financial incentive was attached if clubs voted the way the SPFL wanted ( which is wrong ) we know conversations were made between the SPFL and Dundee even after Dundee voted against the plan , we are told the NO was lost which I find difficult to believe for such a important issue , when Dundee said they had sent their vote surely the SPFL had someone capable of checking their email/WhatsApp files ..
Further it is not acceptable for the SPFL to release how clubs had voted while the vote was still in progress , so we have to ask if all the above has been accepted as fact what else has gone on that we don’t know about ....Scottish Football Clubs must put their own interests aside and have a proper enquiry , I read that Rangers already have enough support to have and EGM held where clubs will vote for a proper investigation, why would any club not support this ...... Fairness , Integrity and honesty must prevail , I can’t understand how Doncaster and others are still in position with what we know and if clubs don’t stand together it will be swept under the carpet and they will claim their huge salaries and manipulate things to suit themselves,

There already has been an independent investigation by Deloitte which didn't find anything that broke the SPFL rules.

It was an internal investigation NOT and external one ,

[kvz2000]

1 hour ago, Nowhereman said:

Rangers have a director onthe SPFL board. If they had any misgivings about the way the vote was carried out he could have raised it with the SPFL board and it would have been discussed. If they felt it wasnt being properly addressed they could then release their information to a wider audience. Instead they say thay have secret information from a whistleblower and manufacture some sort of conspiracy which we all have to guess at.

Rangers have only one agenda here and it has  nothing to do with sporting integrity.

Rangers have said they will release their evidence to other clubs prior to any further meetings so I see no issue with that , no one would put on public display their case for the other side to see and give them the chance to cover up or remove any traces of wrong doing ,

reading between the lines I feel you are more against the fact it’s Rangers that’s standing up for a proper investigation than the reasons for it , if you can’t rise above your dislike or hatred for certain clubs then we are lost as a footballing family , what if your club were calling for this investigation I guess you might have a different view .

[stuartcraig]

A better question would be why are we trying so hard to keep them out, whilst preserving dung like Brechin, Albion rovers etc

A similar sentiment to the one Alex Smith expressed when he suggested Celtic should be allowed to buy out “provincial” (a euphemism for “diddy”) club Clyde so their colt team could get a place in the senior league.


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-celtic-should-buy-over-9258820

[Tutankhamen]

7 minutes ago, stuartcraig said:

 

A similar sentiment to the one Alex Smith expressed when he suggested Celtic should be allowed to buy out “provincial” (a euphemism for “diddy”) club Clyde so their colt team could get a place in the senior league.


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-celtic-should-buy-over-9258820

 

The Dunn family will be happy.

If you know the history.......

[Scottydog]

10 minutes ago, stuartcraig said:

 

A similar sentiment to the one Alex Smith expressed when he suggested Celtic should be allowed to buy out “provincial” (a euphemism for “diddy”) club Clyde so their colt team could get a place in the senior league.


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-celtic-should-buy-over-9258820

 

I remember being generally against it at the time but seeing some merit in it.

I said then that I wouldn't be against Rovers being a subsidiary or feeder team of a huge club as long as we retained our identity.

RRFC (Barcelona inc) would be ok but not sure I'd want a Scottish club owning us.

Edited to add. TBH I cant see Sevco ever doing it though, they seem to be toiling to keep one club in business never mind two.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Scottydog

[sirscottyoung]

[invergowrie arab]

I'm up for this if we have two automatic relegation spots from Tier 3

[The Moonster]

25 minutes ago, kvz2000 said:

if you can’t rise above your dislike or hatred for certain clubs then we are lost as a footballing family

Ah yes, the footballing family that Rangers have been arbitrators of since 2012, where they actively wish death upon any club who didn't vote them back into the leagues at tier 2. But now, we're supposed to take their word on sporting integrity? I think I'll pass.

[Jack Burton]

It was an internal investigation NOT and external one ,

You don't believe Deloitte then because they were appointed by the SPFL?

[Gordon EF]

30 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

1 hour ago, kvz2000 said:

It was an internal investigation NOT and external one ,

You don't believe Deloitte then because they were appointed by the SPFL?

Deloitte may well have given an honest answer but when the question was set by the SPFL, it doesn't really pass the first hurdle of scepticism does it?