The SPFL recommendation?

[roman_bairn]

Every club, including Falkirk, knew before the vote that "No" votes could be changed for up to 28 days after the slips were handed in.
No club, including Falkirk, complained about that at the time.
This wasnt some SPFL ruse, they put it in the rules, to every club, before the vote even happened. Struggling like f**k to understand why clubs waited until after they had voted to then complain about the system. Every single club had 28 days to vote.

What a pile of shit this is.
Everyone knows what the SPFL (lets make it up as we go along) ‘rules’ are. However it’s also well known that if you are a smaller club, you have no chance of getting anything reversed. So no one has the cash or the morale left to push against it.
Are you seriously telling me for example, that to change certain situations, an 11-1 vote being needed by the top division is fair and democratic?…

[roman_bairn]

Enjoying RandomGuy, a supporter of a club who haven't benefited as of yet, utterly dismantling the arguments of fans who seem blinded to the fact there was no chance the league's could continue and that this was the decision of an overwhelming majority.

Only on your biased mind....

[Sergeant Wilson]

16 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

What a pile of shit this is.
Everyone knows what the SPFL (lets make it up as we go along) ‘rules’ are. However it’s also well known that if you are a smaller club, you have no chance of getting anything reversed. So no one has the cash or the morale left to push against it.
Are you seriously telling me for example, that to change certain situations, an 11-1 vote being needed by the top division is fair and democratic?…

The principle was introduced democratically. I can't explain why clubs agreed to it. I suspect they were bought with a slight increase in tv money and possible the introduction of teams 11 & 12, play off for 11 rather than relegation. Whatever, the club's agreed to that format and even when Rangers were out Aberdeen stepped up to the plate.

I'm not sure where Falkirk were during this, but they probably agreed.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Sergeant Wilson

[raith1974]

1 hour ago, kvz2000 said:

I can’t understand the desperate rush for the SPFL to take action and why end the lower leagues but keep the option to finish the premier league open , I know they said it was the only way to get money to clubs but we now know that was a lie . What was the rush ?
Holland have made their season null and void while we were told that was not allowed , another lie ? , Germany have their players back training with a view to getting matches started in a few weeks , England now talking about games played behind closed doors and shown on telly . The SPFL have made a laughing stock of the way things have been handled and their own enquiry has not helped only making their handling even more suspicious as no mention of leaking how clubs voted before all votes were in , the false info given re the release of money to clubs , the lost NO vote which was then allowed to be change etc etc yet their enquiry said all was in order .

What part of clubs not surviving do you not understand. None of the clubs in Scotland especially the lower league clubs are cash rich like Ajax etc. The prize money dished out to clubs is purely to get them through a short period of time. Teams needed the situation resolved so they could plan for next season knowing which leagues they would be in so that season tickets can go on sale. Season ticket sales will save the lower league clubs until the new season starts when ever that may be. As for CHAMPIONS we have been awarded the league, the title, and ultimately promotion, you have been awarded bottom place and relegation, enjoy.

 

[Airdrie76]

Still irrelevant if they would allow it or not because it was never an option for the SPFL, unless they wanted numerous clubs to die.

It is relevant. There were stories being pushed that null and void would prevent a place in the European competitions for those nations clubs etc so it wasn’t an option. Holland have still made that decision.
I’m not saying null and void is the solution btw (it’s probably as fair a way as any to end the season but clearly overlooks a number of obviously important things). My point was more around the stories that are being pushed (admittedly not always directly from the SPFL) as we we’ve gone through this shit show - there have been a lot of stories pushed out there that may or not be true. And that the league should have taken time to step back and evaluate all scenarios.
You note a number of clubs would die for instance. Why? I presume because TV companies may look to be reimbursed? Is that fact (it was suggested as such in the papers)? Latest stories in England suggest otherwise. If you can still distribute the money with a null and void what difference does it really make? Supporters claims for season ticket money back? Are they clambering to get their 4 or 5 games back now?

[DA Baracus]

What might work elsewhere might not work here.

Yes, money  Not just TV money but league money, season ticket money and sponsorship money.

All would be at risk and almost certainly vastly reduced. Many, perhaps most, clubs couldn't survive that.

[craigkillie]

It is relevant. There were stories being pushed that null and void would prevent a place in the European competitions for those nations clubs etc so it wasn’t an option. Holland have still made that decision.

I’m not saying null and void is the solution btw (it’s probably as fair a way as any to end the season but clearly overlooks a number of obviously important things). My point was more around the stories that are being pushed (admittedly not always directly from the SPFL) as we we’ve gone through this shit show - there have been a lot of stories pushed out there that may or not be true. And that the league should have taken time to step back and evaluate all scenarios.

You note a number of clubs would die for instance. Why? I presume because TV companies may look to be reimbursed? Is that fact (it was suggested as such in the papers)? Latest stories in England suggest otherwise. If you can still distribute the money with a null and void what difference does it really make? Supporters claims for season ticket money back? Are they clambering to get their 4 or 5 games back now?

 

I don't think what the Netherlands have done is really "null and void" at all. They've still given out European places based on the season, so it obviously hasn't been considered void. They've just avoided giving out a title (fair enough given that two teams are level on points) and relegating teams (very unfair on the second tier leader Cambuur, 11 points clear in the promotion spots with 9 games to go).

 

The fact that clubs voted against it and they did it anyway is a bigger scandal than anything we have here.

 

[Guest Ecosse83]

What a depressing read this is!

The reality is there is a real chance some clubs will go bust in the next few months. Yes it stung being a Falkirk fan as I genuinely think we would have scraped the league (just my personal opinion) but survival of Scottish football is the priority now. 

If Falkirk survive this there will be a good chance we will be playing in a higher division than League 1 for all the wrong reasons, I for one hope to f*** it doesn't come to that!

[Nowhereman]

 
I don't think what the Netherlands have done is really "null and void" at all. They've still given out European places based on the season, so it obviously hasn't been considered void. They've just avoided giving out a title (fair enough given that two teams are level on points) and relegating teams (very unfair on the second tier leader Cambuur, 11 points clear in the promotion spots with 9 games to go).
 
The fact that clubs voted against it and they did it anyway is a bigger scandal than anything we have here.
 

Indeed. Presumably by the logic of a good number of posters on here this now makes Dutch football a laughing stock. Or alternatively no-one is really that bothered except the Dutch

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 hours ago, kvz2000 said:

I know they said it was the only way to get money to clubs but we now know that was a lie .

I'm Listening.

[Airdrie76]

 

I don't think what the Netherlands have done is really "null and void" at all. They've still given out European places based on the season, so it obviously hasn't been considered void. They've just avoided giving out a title (fair enough given that two teams are level on points) and relegating teams (very unfair on the second tier leader Cambuur, 11 points clear in the promotion spots with 9 games to go).

 

The fact that clubs voted against it and they did it anyway is a bigger scandal than anything we have here.

 

I think it is still a null and void. But you need a way to distribute the money and European places. The records will show it was voided.

Completely agree with going against the vote! Can you imagine that had happened here.

[vikingTON]

7 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Sensible decision IMHO. The SPFL should think again in the light of this.

It shouldn't and more importantly, it won't. You did even worse in the vote than you did on the park all season, so doon ye go.

4 hours ago, EFFC1938 said:

It should have been declared null and void ages ago! With a quarter of the season still to play absolutely f**k all has been won or lost and there's no chance of football being played soon. Of course teams have voted to benefit themselves, that's life but what a mess the SPFL have made of this! Its actually a complete shambles, Scottish football is a laughing stock.

Erm no, this is utter bollocks no matter how many times that a furious minority of clubs and their fanbases wish to regurgitate it. The majority of teams had either no significant stake in the rest of the campaign being continued either way (such as Morton, slap-bang in midtable) or actually voted to give up their tenuous 'right' to play-off football by calling the season in the manner that they did. The rump minority of objectors on the other hand were all voting with their own self-interest clearly in play: either by trying to get their dung season off the books by voiding the campaign or to stall a decision in the delusional belief that the season must be played out to a finish (thus preserving, for example, East Fife's dwindling promotion hopes).

The idea that Hearts, Inverness, Partick, East Fife, Stranraer and of course Sevco are all merely upholding the Corinthian values of the game with their tantrums about the final outcome is truly laughable.

Edited April 25, 2020 by vikingTON

[Airdrie76]

What might work elsewhere might not work here.
Yes, money  Not just TV money but league money, season ticket money and sponsorship money.
All would be at risk and almost certainly vastly reduced. Many, perhaps most, clubs couldn't survive that.

I don’t necessarily disagree with your general stand point. I think it’s a leap to say that the money would almost certainly be vastly reduced though. I’ve seen no details of the discussions that went on with tv companies or sponsors.
What I do know is we’ve been getting fed stories saying one thing or the other depending on who’s pushing the narrative. Who knows what’s true. Worryingly the clubs seemed confused on some fairly basic stuff going into the vote (ie ability to advance money).
The TV company line was trotted out, down south it’s now gone the other way. As I say who knows.
We could have stepped back and assessed all options. Instead we rushed a vote, botched it to some extent and then conducted a secret independent enquiry to try clear the mess up. No one knows the detail of what the scope of Deloitte review was - and while I certainly wouldn’t doubt their integrity, they will have been instructed by the Board on what to cover - which is the key bit in their review.
Did it cover Doncaster phoning Aberdeen to say their vote didn’t matter? It should because we then have Dundee saying part of the reason they stalled (which then led to them changing their vote) was as two Premiership club had changed their position from the day before. One of those clubs could have been Aberdeen. Dundee could see this as the results of the vote were given on the Friday evening despite all votes not being in (if you ignore the one in the quarantine folder obviously). Was that covered? It’s a farce. Yet we’re trusting some of the same people to now attempt rushing through reconstruction.

[Scary Bear]

Sportsound appears to have turned into some sort of football administration show now. Dull and duller.

[Scary Bear]

5 hours ago, EFFC1938 said:

It should have been declared null and void ages ago! With a quarter of the season still to play absolutely f**k all has been won or lost and there's no chance of football being played soon. Of course teams have voted to benefit themselves, that's life but what a mess the SPFL have made of this! Its actually a complete shambles, Scottish football is a laughing stock.

[AL-FFC]

17 hours ago, blueone said:

 

 

Has no one posted this yet? Couldn't see it.

 

Friday, 24 April 2020

OPEN LETTER TO ALL SPFL CLUBS, THE MEDIA
AND SUPPORTERS OF SCOTTISH CLUBS

Dear All,

You will all be aware of reports in the press, calling for an independent investigation and for the suspension of SPFL’s chief executive Neil Doncaster and SPFL’s legal counsel Rod McKenzie in relation to the resolution that enabled the payment of nearly £2 million to Championship, League One and League Two clubs.

The focus of the questions raised in the press concerned the events of the evening of Friday 10 April, when Dundee FC attempted to return a voting slip to the SPFL in connection with the resolution.

In order to ensure complete probity and independence during this process, on Thursday 16 April, Deloitte LLP, a leading global provider of audit and assurance services, was appointed by the SPFL’s independent non-executive directors to carry out a comprehensive and independent investigation
into the factual chronology relating to Dundee FC’s return.

Deloitte has completed its forensic investigation and the findings confirm the following sequence of key events on 10 April 2020.

Sequence of key events on 10 April 2020.
1. An SPFL Board Meeting commenced at 17:00 on Friday 10 April 2020. At the start of the meeting 38 returns had been identified as received, and 1 further return was received during
the meeting at 17:10, bringing the total number of returns to 39.
Ladbrokes Premier: 10 returns in favour, 1 against
Ladbrokes Championship: 7 returns in favour, 2 against
Ladbrokes Leagues One and Two: 16 returns in favour, 3 against

It was noted during the meeting that one vote remained outstanding from the Premiership, one from the Championship, and one from Leagues One and Two.

2. The Board meeting concluded at around 17:15.

3. At 17:15, Neil Doncaster called Dundee FC Managing Director, John Nelms, and left a message asking whether Dundee FC intended to submit a return.

4. At 17:39, Neil Doncaster had a conversation with John Nelms and confirmed that as far as he knew, no vote had been returned from Dundee FC. John Nelms thought Dundee FC’s vote may have been returned, but would make enquiries.

5. At 17:50, Eric Drysdale (Dundee FC Club Secretary) spoke to Iain Blair (SPFL’s Company Secretary and Director of Operations) asking whether Dundee FC’s return had been
received. Iain Blair confirmed that it had not.

6. At 18:00, a text was received by Iain Blair, from Eric Drysdale, intimating that the Dundee FC vote should not be considered as cast.

7. At around 20:30, Ian Blair accessed the SPFL’s email quarantine system (which is a feature of the email system operated by a separate third party) at the suggestion of Rod Mackenzie and identified an unread email from Eric Drysdale that had been sent at 16:48 on 10 April 2020. Iain Blair released the quarantined email and it appeared in his SPFL email inbox at 20:55. Prior to identifying the quarantined email at around 20:30, no one from the SPFL had seen the email from Eric Drysdale.

Deloitte’s examination of phone records, mobile communications (including texts) and email data has identified no evidence of improper behaviour by SPFL personnel concerning the submission of the Dundee FC vote.

I hope that Scottish football will now focus on the significant issues that face our game, otherwise many clubs may not survive this period.

We will have to be forward-thinking, and work collegiately to quickly present ideas and proposals to Scottish Government and others which will enable Scottish football to recover and progress.

Make no mistake, this is a critical time for all clubs, and we must concentrate on what is important to the future of our game.

Yours faithfully,

Karyn McCluskey
SPFL Independent Non-Executive Director

For Background
Karyn McCluskey worked in numerous police forces for 23 years, latterly as Head of Intelligence Analysis for Strathclyde Police. She helped set up the international-recognised Scottish Violence Reduction Unit, where she was Director until 2016. She is a Fellow of the Faculty of Public Health. She
sits on the boards of the homeless charity The Simon Community, Medics Against Violence and The Centre for Justice Innovation.

 

 

It's on the official PFC Facebook page. https://tinyurl.com/y9l2szfx

All this gives is what was surrounding the Dundee vote theres nothing about club chairmen being pressured by other chairmen and members of the SPFL board on  how to use their vote or vote Yes or we are not releasing the monies.

[DA Baracus]

That's Jim Duffy on the radio now.

Presumably Falkirk fans will be in floods of tears and sprinting to grass him in to The Sun.

[Shadwell Dog]

7 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

That's Jim Duffy on the radio now.

Presumably Falkirk fans will be in floods of tears and sprinting to grass him in to The Sun.

Nothing wrong with being on the radio is there?

[DA Baracus]

Just now, Shadwell Dog said:

Nothing wrong with being on the radio is there?

Not according to the hysterically weeping Falkirk fans who grassed up John McGlynn to The Sun for it.

[Shadwell Dog]

5 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Not according to the hysterically weeping Falkirk fans who grassed up John McGlynn to The Sun for it.

That wasn't because he was on the radio though.