The SPFL recommendation?

[TheScarf]

Dead rubbers in sport are unavoidable when it comes to sports with leagues; football, rugby, basketball etc.

The Scottish football fans weird erection for every single league game 'meaning something' is tiresome to say the least. 

 

[Paco]

Again though the only reason we seem to be rushing into this compared to the vast majority of leagues in europe is money which can be quite easily divided up well in advance of any final decision being made.  All clubs are still saved and we're not jumping into a decision now which will clearly affect some clubs a lot worse than others.  I'm sure if there was a vote now on giving out prize money just now with a view to further discussion on what to do with the leagues it would pass no bother.

That’s true, I personally don’t think we need a decision this week or next but it isn’t far off. I agree a distribution of the ‘bottom placed’ prize money to all clubs in each league would be sensible first step.

We do however need a decision within the next few weeks as clubs usually sell season tickets for next season (and indeed some already are). This money is budgeted to arrive in May/June and makes up a large chunk of clubs income. The decision needs made soon, it isn’t as simple as just waiting and seeing. It’s pretty clear we can’t finish this season and have a full season next time. It might not be right now but we can’t wait for too long without clubs struggling.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

13 hours ago, AL-FFC said:

Sevco released a statement on it actually quite good considering:
 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11788/11970634/rangers-criticise-spfl-proposal-to-end-leagues-below-premiership-early-as-abhorrent

We are also acutely aware of other issues which are less pressing but, are forming key parts of the football narrative in Scotland. Nothing is more important than protecting the future of every club in Scotland as we are cognisant that this has a direct impact upon people’s livelihoods. It is abhorrent that certain clubs could be unfairly relegated if the current SPFL proposals were implemented. We must future proof the Scottish game.

Any restructure of the SPFL or other solutions to the current impasse must be afforded time to scrutinise in detail and consider all options. The consequences of forcing through change without due care and attention will have severe consequences for the Scottish game.

Scottish football must work together for the common good of every club, their staff and supporters. Any attempts to railroad changes to existing rules or run roughshod over corporate governance will be opposed in the strongest possible terms. We must allow decisions to be made in a rational, fair and balanced manner.

This is so fucking Rangers, at their instigation, Berwick, Stenhousemuir and some other teams had to go to court in the 60's to prevent the league from chucking them out so that the 'Scottish game' could be future proofed.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Zen Archer Esq.

[CALDERON]

I think some concrete proposal on reconstruction would suddenly change the outlook of this, and plenty teams would vote for promotion even though "they havent won anything yet"

[Jack Burton]

Doesn't seem to bother the teams down south very much.

They have the top 6 involved in promotion and 3 or 4 down.

[true_rover]

They have the top 6 involved in promotion and 3 or 4 down.

The biggest issue with a much bigger league is how much weaker the second tier becomes. You would be relegating teams from the Premiership straight into the equivalent of League 1. That would either kill teams or you'd see the same teams come straight back up every year. It would be dreadful.

[Shadwell Dog]

13 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

That’s true, I personally don’t think we need a decision this week or next but it isn’t far off. I agree a distribution of the ‘bottom placed’ prize money to all clubs in each league would be sensible first step.

We do however need a decision within the next few weeks as clubs usually sell season tickets for next season (and indeed some already are). This money is budgeted to arrive in May/June and makes up a large chunk of clubs income. The decision needs made soon, it isn’t as simple as just waiting and seeing. It’s pretty clear we can’t finish this season and have a full season next time. It might not be right now but we can’t wait for too long without clubs struggling.

 

Clubs selling seasons now are really chancing it if you ask me. There is absolutely no guarantee we will ever have a 20/21 season as it could be the turn of the year before we see any football being played which would mean trying to squeeze it in in the first few months of next year. You cant then cut the size of the season down if your charging people for an 18 home season and it turns out that we're only playing 9 or that. Also means closed door games are well and truly out the window if you've already charged people to watch them.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

1 minute ago, true_rover said:

7 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

They have the top 6 involved in promotion and 3 or 4 down.

The biggest issue with a much bigger league is how much weaker the second tier becomes. You would be relegating teams from the Premiership straight into the equivalent of League 1. That would either kill teams or you'd see the same teams come straight back up every year. It would be dreadful.

Correct. It would be awful.

You need a continuum of diddyness from pretendy-not-diddies Celtic all the way down to uber-diddies Brechin, Stenny and so on. Not one massive cliff edge. That's one reason why the restructuring of prize money 5 or 6 years ago was a very positive step.

Imagine if a Hearts (or insert big team of choice) had a shitemare of a season and faced relegation into that wilderness. The restructuring would be done in a flash to save them.

I'm an unashamed fan of the smaller leagues, and yes, like my football to have something at stake as much as possible.

[Shadwell Dog]

I note that the EFL and EPL are giving out prize money early and before any decision is made on what is going to happen to the leagues. Only in the SPFL it would seem is the prize money being used as a carrot to railroad clubs into making a decision now.

[Sergeant Wilson]

46 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Dead rubbers in sport are unavoidable when it comes to sports with leagues; football, rugby, basketball etc.

The Scottish football fans weird erection for every single league game 'meaning something' is tiresome to say the least. 

 

B...b...b...but we could be top of the bottom 6!

It's professional sport, how can it be meaningless...prize money...mortgages to pay...livelihoods at stake...

 

Eta, cliches are available for other suggested league structures.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Sergeant Wilson

[honestman54]

1 hour ago, Jack Burton said:

The 10 team leagues aren't great but at least it means most clubs have something to play for.

A 20 team league with only 3 relegation or promotion places would mean plenty of teams stuck in midtable with nothing to play for rather quickly.

So we need somewhere in the middle then for the top flight

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, sydney said:

How does playing out the fixtures and then starting with a new season of say 27 games provide any less income than stopping the season now and starting afresh in August ? It doesn’t. Whatever the restart date, the same amount of time would largely be available. It would stop all the inevitable wailing and gnashing of teeth from the likes of Hearts, Partick and Falkirk. 
My view is that this won’t happen anyway. As I said, it’s just too difficult when you consider that players may have already agreed to join other clubs, etc. so is probably an unrealistic prospect. 

Where are you scheduling 27 games in the calendar? There is no football taking place anytime soon and there are still eleven match days required to complete this season in the lower leagues. Then you need to give players an actual break, open the transfer window and have pre-season preparation before the next one begins. The idea that you can restart this season and begin 20/21 this side of December is unlikely then. 

The worst part about this idea is that it leaves Scottish football hostage to an epidemic that cannot currently be controlled nor predicted. If you insist on trashing next season’s schedule as well then you remove any scope to deal with another shutdown during the seasonal winter peak of most airborne infections. So I guess we just insist on finishing that season in August 2021 as well and keep cascading this utter shite down the years.

75% of games played is more than enough time to determine which teams are good and which teams are shite and complete the season accordingly. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by vikingTON

[Shadwell Dog]

14 minutes ago, virginton said:

Where are you scheduling 27 games in the calendar? There is no football taking place anytime soon and there are still eleven match days required to complete this season in the lower leagues. Then you need to give players an actual break, open the transfer window and have pre-season preparation before the next one begins. The idea that you can restart this season and begin 20/21 this side of December is unlikely then. 

The worst part about this idea is that it leaves Scottish football hostage to an epidemic that cannot currently be controlled nor predicted. If you insist on trashing next season’s schedule as well then you remove any scope to deal with another shutdown during the seasonal winter peak of most airborne infections. So I guess we just insist on finishing that season in August 2021 as well and keep cascading this utter shite down the years.

75% of games played is more than enough time to determine which teams are good and which teams are shite and complete the season accordingly. 

What if there is no football at all until the turn of the year? How do we fit a full 20/21 season in between say january and the summer? 

[Bluegrass Bairn]

42 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

That’s true, I personally don’t think we need a decision this week or next but it isn’t far off. I agree a distribution of the ‘bottom placed’ prize money to all clubs in each league would be sensible first step.

We do however need a decision within the next few weeks as clubs usually sell season tickets for next season (and indeed some already are). This money is budgeted to arrive in May/June and makes up a large chunk of clubs income. The decision needs made soon, it isn’t as simple as just waiting and seeing. It’s pretty clear we can’t finish this season and have a full season next time. It might not be right now but we can’t wait for too long without clubs struggling.

 

Yeah I agree with this. The distribution of interim payouts doesn't at all need to be tied to imposing current league tables as final.  This season wouldn't finish until mid-May, players will be under contract until the end of May.  Offering 3-month extensions to those players out of contract would mean there's all summer to assess the ongoing status of the pandemic... And if there's no re-start in August for season 20-21, which seems likely right now, then to argue that extending this season will fcuk up next is a moot point.             

[Wee Sandy]

13 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

They don't have any power here when their very existence is under threat.

Folk don't seem to be grasping how precarious things are for many clubs.

*****this****

[Shadwell Dog]

2 minutes ago, Wee Sandy said:

*****this****

This is only because the prize money is currently linked to a yes vote which shouldn't be the case. Check out england their giving out prize money now with no decision on what's happening with the leagues planned yet. No reason why we couldnt follow that example 

[DougJamie]

1 hour ago, Zen Archer Esq. said:

This is so fucking Rangers, at their instigation, Berwick, Stenhousemuir and some other teams had to go to court in the 60's to prevent the league from chucking them out so that the 'Scottish game' could be future proofed.

Maybe they should decide it on debt

Ooops ta ta Rangers

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 hour ago, Zen Archer Esq. said:

This is so fucking Rangers, at their instigation, Berwick, Stenhousemuir and some other teams had to go to court in the 60's to prevent the league from chucking them out so that the 'Scottish game' could be future proofed.

I've managed to find an article on the subject.

Quote

IRONY will be at the forefront of the minds of certain members of the Scottish Football League with long memories when they vote on the future of ‘The Rangers’.

Five clubs which will be involved in determining which division the Ibrox club will play in next season – Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City, Stenhousemuir and Stranraer – may think back 48 years when the boot was on the other foot.

In 1964, this gang of five survived an attempt to oust them from senior football in a move led by Rangers.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/latest-rangers-news/rangers-newco-1964-bid-eject-minnows-could-come-back-haunt-club-2479294

[Dunning1874]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Yes, and I don't know how many times this needs to be pointed out - but they haven't won the league. I really don't understand the difficulty some have with this.

Can you tell me exactly what the "contractual issues with sponsors" would be for voiding the league and why other organisations such as Sottish Rugby don't have those contractual issues? 

I agree that the sponsors line is a sideshow, but the idea that nulling and voiding isn't unfair because the titles haven't been won yet just doesn't stand up.

There's no perfect solution either way, but you can't seriously argue that ending it as it is an egregious injustice to Hearts, Partick and Stranraer while simultaneously saying nulling and voiding wouldn't be an injustice for Celtic, Dundee United, Raith and Cove.

If it isn't possible to finish the season then some clubs are going to feel hard done by regardless of what option is taken and there's no way to avoid that, but when it comes down to it you have a choice between pretending three quarters of the season haven't happened and leaving clubs where they are, punishing clubs who've had good seasons and rewarding clubs who've had bad ones, or calling the season early based on the three quarters we have played, rewarding the clubs who've had good seasons and punishing those who have had bad ones.

Both of those have an unfair outcome for someone and finishing the season  would obviously be the preferred option, but I'd far rather base the decision on the significant proportion of the season that has happened and let the clubs who've been shite take the hit than wipe the whole thing and hurt the clubs who've performed well.

I appreciate that League One is less clear cut because it's the only division that still has a title race while the others were inevitably going to be won the current leaders anyway, but the same principle applies. It is tough on Falkirk, Airdrie, Montrose & East Fife but it leaves them in the exact same position that null and void would anyway, so I can't see why Falkirk fans are up in arms and threatening boycotts over one but not the other. There is no entirely fair way out of this, but ending it as it stands is clearly a better option than null and void.

[The Moonster]

18 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

There is no entirely fair way out of this, but ending it as it stands is clearly a better option than null and void.

I just can't agree.