The SPFL recommendation?

[Shadwell Dog]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

The issue with the top flight is UEFA arent allowing voided leagues to enter teams into Europe, as they havent "earned qualification through sporting achievement". 

You're not allowed to just nominate sides to play in it/earn UEFA money.

Even if UEFA competitions dont go ahead, prize money will be handed out to qualifiers.

So what will happen if UEFA say you must finish your leagues to be eligible for European competitions?

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

The issue with the top flight is UEFA arent allowing voided leagues to enter teams into Europe, as they havent "earned qualification through sporting achievement". 

You're not allowed to just nominate sides to play in it/earn UEFA money.

Even if UEFA competitions dont go ahead, prize money will be handed out to qualifiers.

UEFA aren't a sponsor.

[sirscottyoung]

Very few, if any, contracts will run like that in the SPFL. No idea where you're getting that from. Plenty of lower league clubs have contracts that end shortly after the season does so that they don't need to keep paying players they no longer want for more than is necessary.
Dumbarton for example assembled a squad so late that they had to cancel some pre-season friendlies because they didn't have enough players.
Take a look at the link below showing when our squad was signed:
https://www.dafc.co.uk/people.php?SID=First+Team

Yeah that's fine but the contract runs till the 30th of June now and that's fact.

From when they sign till that date.
If someone signs till January it will had a date it finishes (31st December or 31st January)
If they sign till end of season it's till 30th of June.

If you sign them for 2 years then you still pay them every week till the end of contract if the season is finished or not.

It used to to just be the 42 weeks the contracts lasted but a season or 2 ago that changed.

[Tenkay]

15 hours ago, Clyde01 said:

Promote 2 and relegate none from every league. Why is that a worse idea than this pish? It also allows lowland and highland league champions to progress.

THIS....

Two up from each league, with no relegation is probably the one most would be happy to agree on!  (at the moment!)

[sirscottyoung]

This has changed, I'm fairly sure yer man sirscottyoung will have inside info on this too. Obviously players can be signed later than 1st July but their contract will still run to the end of summer.

Haha thankyou that's exactly it

[craigkillie]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Can you tell me exactly what the "contractual issues with sponsors" would be for voiding the league and why other organisations such as Sottish Rugby don't have those contractual issues? 

The domestic rugby league in Scotland is the equivalent of the East of Scotland League or the Juniors in terms of the attendances and general status of the clubs. There won't be any massive sponsorship deals involved.

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

The domestic rugby league in Scotland is the equivalent of the East of Scotland League or the Juniors in terms of the attendances and general status of the clubs. There won't be any massive sponsorship deals involved.

Okay. What are the contractual issues with sponsors that the SPFL have in voiding the season?

[sirscottyoung]

THIS....
Two up from each league, with no relegation is probably the one most would be happy to agree on!  (at the moment!)

I want a fully incorporated pyramid.

20 team spl
20 team championship
20 team league 1
20 team league 2
20 team league 3
And if more of the Eos, Wos, SOS, juniors etc want involved then bring them into a league 4.

Then just have a standard 2 go up, 2 go down, 3rd bottom v 3rd in league below play off in all leagues.

Rewarding a good season and punishing a bad one.

SO MANY new grounds to visit, so many new teams to play. Bigger more exciting cups.

[Shadwell Dog]

2 minutes ago, sirscottyoung said:

I want a fully incorporated pyramid.

20 team spl
20 team championship
20 team league 1
20 team league 2
20 team league 3
And if more of the Eos, Wos, SOS, juniors etc want involved then bring them into a league 4.

Then just have a standard 2 go up, 2 go down, 3rd bottom v 3rd in league below play off in all leagues.

Rewarding a good season and punishing a bad one.

SO MANY new grounds to visit, so many new teams to play. Bigger more exciting cups.

We've surely got too many pro teams as it is for the size of the country. You just need to see how many clubs have the begging bowls out after a couple of weeks inactivity.

[craigkillie]

Just now, The Moonster said:

Okay. What are the contractual issues with sponsors that the SPFL have in voiding the season?

How could I possibly know that? Several people associated with the SPFL have suggested that they would be, I don't necessarily buy that the consequences would be as bad as they suggested (ie having to pay everything back), but it is clearly a genuine consideration for them.

The main reason I think making the season null and void is an awful idea is that we have played the vast majority of the season and we have a good enough idea about the relative merits of the clubs. As imperfect as calling the season early is, it's a hell of a lot more palatable than just writing the whole thing off.

[Shadwell Dog]

2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

How could I possibly know that? Several people associated with the SPFL have suggested that they would be, I don't necessarily buy that the consequences would be as bad as they suggested (ie having to pay everything back), but it is clearly a genuine consideration for them.

The main reason I think making the season null and void is an awful idea is that we have played the vast majority of the season and we have a good enough idea about the relative merits of the clubs. As imperfect as calling the season early is, it's a hell of a lot more palatable than just writing the whole thing off.

So what's the merits of relegating partick who are only 2 points behind queen of the south with a game in hand?

[craigkillie]

3 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

So what's the merits of relegating partick who are only 2 points behind queen of the south with a game in hand?

They have earned fewer points per game than Queen of the South and therefore are worse based on the evidence we've seen so far.

[sirscottyoung]

We've surely got too many pro teams as it is for the size of the country. You just need to see how many clubs have the begging bowls out after a couple of weeks inactivity.

But people are still going to support their local or junior side no matter what league. I just want more variation.
Played the same teams for my whole lifetime.
Can't wait to go to cove and partick potentially next season. Two grounds to tick off the list

[Paco]

So what's the merits of relegating partick who are only 2 points behind queen of the south with a game in hand?

 

Nobody is laying down the law and sending Partick down.

 

You might disagree with the premise but the SPFL is a members-run organisation. They’ve spoken on several occasions with their members and the option with the broadest consensus is, evidently, calling the season now. If the vote doesn’t get 75%, there’ll be a canvas for a new option and that’ll go to a vote too, and we’ll rinse and repeat until a solution is agreed on.

 

The members will decide. Whatever the eventual outcome, several clubs will be annoyed but that’s what happens in a vote.

 

The priority should be to prevent any member club going bust. I’m not sure it is yet, unfortunately, but the time will come. The solution put forward would save all clubs in the short to medium term and sure, it’s a bit unfair to Partick Thistle and Falkirk in particular. But the perfect solution doesn’t exist. What suits 75% will rule the day. The SPFL are simply asking the question of what that is.

[Jack Burton]

I want a fully incorporated pyramid.

20 team spl
20 team championship
20 team league 1
20 team league 2
20 team league 3
And if more of the Eos, Wos, SOS, juniors etc want involved then bring them into a league 4.

Then just have a standard 2 go up, 2 go down, 3rd bottom v 3rd in league below play off in all leagues.

Rewarding a good season and punishing a bad one.

SO MANY new grounds to visit, so many new teams to play. Bigger more exciting cups.

The 10 team leagues aren't great but at least it means most clubs have something to play for.

A 20 team league with only 3 relegation or promotion places would mean plenty of teams stuck in midtable with nothing to play for rather quickly.

[sirscottyoung]

The 10 team leagues aren't great but at least it means most clubs have something to play for.

A 20 team league with only 3 relegation or promotion places would mean plenty of teams stuck in midtable with nothing to play for rather quickly.

Still got to play for the extra money for finishing in each place in the league

[AyrshireTon]

5 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

The 10 team leagues aren't great but at least it means most clubs have something to play for.

A 20 team league with only 3 relegation or promotion places would mean plenty of teams stuck in midtable with nothing to play for rather quickly.

Doesn't seem to bother the teams down south very much.

[The Moonster]

30 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

How could I possibly know that? Several people associated with the SPFL have suggested that they would be, I don't necessarily buy that the consequences would be as bad as they suggested (ie having to pay everything back), but it is clearly a genuine consideration for them.

The main reason I think making the season null and void is an awful idea is that we have played the vast majority of the season and we have a good enough idea about the relative merits of the clubs. As imperfect as calling the season early is, it's a hell of a lot more palatable than just writing the whole thing off.

I don't know how any fan on here has the slightest idea of the contractual issues - exactly why I'm asking folk to stop saying it unless they have the info. Personally I think it's utter bullshit and until something more tangible than "somebody at the SPFL thinks we might have to possibly pay all of the money back" comes out then folk should stop throwing that up as a reason not to void the season.

More palatable to who? Calling the season now means Celtic, Dundee United, Raith and Cove are all happy. Nobody else "wins" here, they just have varying degrees of opportunity removed from them whilst others get rewarded with promotion.

Edited April 9, 2020 by The Moonster

[Shadwell Dog]

14 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

Nobody is laying down the law and sending Partick down.

 

You might disagree with the premise but the SPFL is a members-run organisation. They’ve spoken on several occasions with their members and the option with the broadest consensus is, evidently, calling the season now. If the vote doesn’t get 75%, there’ll be a canvas for a new option and that’ll go to a vote too, and we’ll rinse and repeat until a solution is agreed on.

 

The members will decide. Whatever the eventual outcome, several clubs will be annoyed but that’s what happens in a vote.

 

The priority should be to prevent any member club going bust. I’m not sure it is yet, unfortunately, but the time will come. The solution put forward would save all clubs in the short to medium term and sure, it’s a bit unfair to Partick Thistle and Falkirk in particular. But the perfect solution doesn’t exist. What suits 75% will rule the day. The SPFL are simply asking the question of what that is.

Again though the only reason we seem to be rushing into this compared to the vast majority of leagues in europe is money which can be quite easily divided up well in advance of any final decision being made.  All clubs are still saved and we're not jumping into a decision now which will clearly affect some clubs a lot worse than others.  I'm sure if there was a vote now on giving out prize money just now with a view to further discussion on what to do with the leagues it would pass no bother.

[Gordon EF]

7 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I don't know how any fan on here has the slightest idea of the contractual issues - exactly why I'm asking folk to stop saying it unless they have the info. Personally I think it's utter bullshit and until something more tangible than "somebody at the SPFL thinks we might have to possibly pay all of the money back" comes out then folk should stop throwing that up as a reason not to void the season.

More palatable to who? Calling the season now means Celtic, Dundee United, Raith and Cove are all happy. Nobody else "wins" here, they just have varying degrees of opportunity to removed from them whilst others get rewarded with promotion.

Yep. Heard plenty of folk (mostly Raith fans) with predictions of doom about no sponsorship money if the season is nulled.

I suspect nobody here knows the details of the contract so essentially, if you don't know, you're talking pish.

There is no way in hell that SPFL sponsors will take the view that they're perfectly happy to stump up cash if we don't end the season... as long as we just decide to promote Raith and relegate Partick Thistle. That is utterly nonsensical. It is of no benefit whatsoever to sponsors for that to happen.

If the issue is about the technicality of saying the season has "ended" or not, it's perfectly possible to say that the season ended but due to extraordinary circumstances, no promotion / relegation / championships were awarded.

That's not my first choice of outcome but I'd rather do that than cal as is.