Vote on Curtailment of the season

[an86]

36 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Any reconstruction that increases the league sizes still involves promotion.

It doesn't. It involves restructuring. They are completely different league structures. I'm not expecting Ray McKinnon to be carried off an open top bus on the shoulders of his players, spraying champagne and punching the air in delight because we've been 'promoted' to the third tier. 

[BFTD]

9 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

And the league 2 clubs aren't voting out of self interest? They want relegation to the LL suspended.

It has nothing to do with arrogance, financially there is a big difference from us playing the currency league 1 sides even excluding Falkirk and Thistle compared to Annan and Elgin. It has nothing to do with them "not bringing anything to the table".

Whataboutery too.

[The man with no name]

43 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

What plans have these altruistic heroes of our time got for the HL and LL winners? 

Just my personal opinion. I would offer the winners of the HL/LL play off automatic promotion with the bottom club of the 42 dropping out.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

2 minutes ago, The man with no name said:

Just my personal opinion. I would offer the winners of the HL/LL play off automatic promotion with the bottom club of the 42 dropping out.

Sounds good to me, but I meant for 20/21, assuming it takes place.

[BFTD]

5 minutes ago, The man with no name said:

Just my personal opinion. I would offer the winners of the HL/LL play off automatic promotion with the bottom club of the 42 dropping out.

I've seen that mentioned before. If the circumstances allow the play-off match between the Highland/Lowland champions to go ahead, why would you scrap the second match against Team 42?

I'd no idea folk were so keen to get rid of Brechin!

Edit: unless you mean as a general principle, not just to end this season?

Edited April 29, 2020 by BigFatTabbyDave

[an86]

Just now, The man with no name said:

Just my personal opinion. I would offer the winners of the HL/LL play off automatic promotion with the bottom club of the 42 dropping out.

I agree. However, we are where we are in terms of 19/20.

You can make a strong argument on both sides. I'd have no problem with Kelty and Brora in a 14-10-10-10 format as both would have had a chance at promotion. 

The argument can also be made that it'd have been impossible for both to be promoted in normal circumstances. Indeed, it's possible, although unlikely, that neither would have been. It also opens up an argument for Cowdenbeath, Elgin, Queen's Park or any other playoff hopeful to say "Hang on a minute. We might have won the playoffs and gone up."

There's no way of resolving this 100%.

[Jack Burton]

Whataboutery too.

[emoji23] You can't give any rebuttal to the points I raised because you know it is correct.

Everyone is voting out of self interest it isn't just unique to Clyde.

[BFTD]

Just now, Jack Burton said:

You can't give any rebuttal to the points I raised because you know it is correct.

Everyone is voting out of self interest it isn't just unique to Clyde.

I ignored what you said because it agreed with what I'd already said. I'm not sure why you think otherwise.

The only further thing to add was to point out your whataboutery, another Rangers trait that is regularly highlighted. Frankly, I feel like I'm doing The Kincardine's job for him, so I hope his hangover breaks soon.

[The man with no name]

8 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Sounds good to me, but I meant for 20/21, assuming it takes place.

I would scrap it this year. Brechin stay in to fit the principal of no team loses out. 

Automatic promotion every season after that for the winners of the HL/LL play-off. Relegation for club 42. A proper pyramid system.

Queen's Park changed 152 years of history to ensure we never become club 42. It's adapt or die. That is modern football. You have to move with the times. 

[an86]

10 minutes ago, The man with no name said:

Queen's Park changed 152 years of history to ensure we never become club 42. 

Wouldn't go that far. The Hampden money and Haughey era won't be forever. We will have to sustain ourselves in the long term and that's part of the plan. However, I'd be amazed if we didn't find ourselves flirting with the trap door at some stage, whether 10, 20, 50 years down the line.

Football is cyclical and I think most smaller clubs will be uncomfortably close to the drop at some point. Just need to hope we're in position to deal with it when it comes. 

[Best Team in Angus]

38 minutes ago, The man with no name said:

I would scrap it this year. Brechin stay in to fit the principal of no team loses out. 

Automatic promotion every season after that for the winners of the HL/LL play-off. Relegation for club 42. A proper pyramid system.

Queen's Park changed 152 years of history to ensure we never become club 42. It's adapt or die. That is modern football. You have to move with the times. 

Lucky you most clubs don't have the luxury of Hampden money & a multi millionaire's help to adapt  

 

[an86]

53 minutes ago, Best Team in Angus said:

Lucky you most clubs don't have the luxury of Hampden money & a multi millionaire's help to adapt  

 

Yep, we are lucky. It doesn't at all detract from the point, though. I was arguing for automatic relegation even when we were amateur and one inevitable dodgy summer of recruitment away from serious trouble. 

If we couldn't survive, then that was very much of our own doing. Turning pro doesn't make us immune from the drop in the long term. It just doesn't make it completely inevitable. 

[Best Team in Angus]

I don't have any real issues with relegating the bottom club and promoting 1 club  ( starting next year ) and I say this as someone who supports a team who at the moment looks like we will be in the bottom reaches again next year unless there are  changes to things at all levels at our club. But there are murmurings within the town about a way forward to help the club financially which hopefully comes to something.

Survival is the key thing for us and lots of other clubs  during these very sad and strange times

[Gordon EF]

The vote taken previously has essentially scrapped the play offs and honoured automatic promotion for clubs currently occupying those places. LL/HL champions do not get automatic promotion. They're essentially in the same position as Inverness, Falkirk and Edinburgh, not Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove with respect to promotion.

The only way they can or should be promoted is if clubs decide the 'one season fix' of no relegations and two up and then re-align the following season is voted through or if we decide to restructure and that restructuring means additional clubs beyond the 42.

Practically, I don't see clubs going for the first of those. Principally clubs at the bottom of the Premier and L2 will be shitting themselves about extra relegation spots in 2021/22 and so won't vote for it.

I also just don't see clubs voting to permanently expand on 42 at the moment. if we decide to switch away from 10 team leagues, I think 14 is pretty much the limit of where clubs will be willing to go. The Premier might just about accept 14 and the Championship probably would as well. Any larger and we're spreading funding and strength of clubs just a bit too far probably and creating chunks of leagues where not much happens in the middle.

It might be possible to go with 16 in the bottom tier and split after 30 games giving a 37 game season with uneven home / away fixtures but if we go 14-14 in the top two tiers, I think it's inevitable the third tier will follow suit.

If we stick at 42, there'll inevitably be a stink kicked up from Kelty, Brora and the pyramid below the SPFL. As a bit of compensation, I'd definitely be behind offering HL/LL play off winners automatic promotion from now on. Of course a bunch of L2 clubs won't like that but it's overdue at this point and it'd be worth calling that part of the L2 club's bluff on.

 

 

[Aberdeen Cowden]

5 hours ago, an86 said:

Yep, we are lucky. It doesn't at all detract from the point, though. I was arguing for automatic relegation even when we were amateur and one inevitable dodgy summer of recruitment away from serious trouble. 

If we couldn't survive, then that was very much of our own doing. Turning pro doesn't make us immune from the drop in the long term. It just doesn't make it completely inevitable. 

When were you amateur?

[an86]

3 minutes ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

When were you amateur?

When were you original? 

[Cowden Cowboy]

15 minutes ago, chocolateankles said:

Everyone knows that but also everyones out to look after themselves

Everybody doesn’t know that that’s just your own viewpoint - many folks are strongly in favour of play offs 

[Hampden Diehard]

7 hours ago, Jack Burton said:

You can't give any rebuttal to the points I raised because you know it is correct.

Everyone is voting out of self interest it isn't just unique to Clyde.

The only reason for restructuring being discussed is to save Hearts, in unashamed self-interest on their part.  I'm happy for every team to adopt self-interest. 

[Hampden Diehard]

45 minutes ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

When were you amateur?

For 152 years; same length of time that your patter's been pish.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

2 hours ago, Hampden Diehard said:

For 152 years; same length of time that your patter's been pish.

Tough!  Agree with your comment about Hearts though.