Vote on Curtailment of the season

[Thom & Gerry]

Many of the problems of the current pyramid are caused by the following:

1) The structure of the SPFL (4 small divisions), with particularly a very small transition between SPFL and Tier 5  (League 2) of 10 teams, creating a bottleneck.
2) The structure of  Tier 5, trying to fit teams into a lopsided 2-league structure instead of the more natural 3-leagues, as trialled by the Juniors for many years.

A simple solution, which I've posted a detailed diagram of earlier, takes into account the following concerns:

1) SPFL clubs want to preserve a 42 team league.
2) SPFL clubs don't want regionalistaion of lower tiers.
3) Scotland has too many tiers for so few clubs (no other league in Europe has 4 national leagues, apart from England (with 10 x the population), which has 5).
4).
4) Tayside clubs don't appear to want to play in any "Highland" or "North" structure.
5) Smaller junior and amateur clubs essentially want to "stay where they are".

So, in my opinion, we're trying to build a pyramid on shaky foundations, and that's why it's taking so long to get off the ground.
Simple solution:

1) Get rid of one of the Tiers (Tiers 1-3 of 12-14-16 teams). This makes it easier for teams to progress through the leagues by cutting out an unnecessary level.
2) Make Tier 4 (now Tier 5) 3-pronged instead of 2-pronged (North/East/West).
3) Distribute all teams below Tier 4, maintaining current leagues if possible.

This allows a relatively evenly distributed number of teams among the North/East/West sections of the pyramid, and it allows all teams the option of not being promoted if they can't manage/don't want to.  It also means a compact structure of 9 Tiers for all Scottish football, right down to amateur and welfare.  If West Lothian teams don't want to progress, they can stay in a West Lothian League as a notional part of the pyramid, refusing promotion every year if they want to.

Precisely because I've positively addressed most of the problems that have been raised when I've discussed the subject previously (I've discussed it with SPFL club fans, junior fans, and senior non-league fans), my idea is clearly doomed to failure.  A better solution would have been for me just to pull out some names from a tombola and throw them on the floor and see which leagues they end up in.


This was in Highland League thread but I thought it was well thought out and interesting.

 

 

Edited Friday at 10:33 by mcruic

• Quote

[the tin man]

City nd cove support brora and kelty

[Brazilianlex]

What is the song the tin man sings in the Wizard of Oz ?

[foreverarover]

Kelty weren't even guaranteed to finish top of their league, being only 6pts clear having played a game more.
Forgive me if I dont feel sympathy if they miss out an apparent guaranteed promotion.

It's irrespective of who is top it was bummed up by the spfl as a pyramid system. This said pyramid system is closed off just to suit themselves.

[The man with no name]

You have 3 Clubs pushing reconstruction, Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer, looking after their own self interests. You have 10 Clubs in the same league coming together and pushing a collective goal in what they see as the best interests of football. 

 

[craigkillie]

You have 3 Clubs pushing reconstruction, Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer, looking after their own self interests. You have 10 Clubs in the same league coming together and pushing a collective goal in what they see as the best interests of football. 
 

By "the best interests of football", you mean "the best interests of themselves", right?

[Best Team in Angus]

10 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

By "the best interests of football", you mean "the best interests of themselves", right?

Would it not be the case that most if not all votes are cast with self interest in mind whether for immediate gain or future potential gains 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Best Team in Angus

[The man with no name]

10 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

By "the best interests of football", you mean "the best interests of themselves", right?

So doing something for 3 clubs is better than 10 and a whole league. Getting a whole league to agree to something is incredible!!!

[craigkillie]

So doing something for 3 clubs is better than 10 and a whole league. Getting a whole league to agree to something is incredible!!!

Getting a whole league to agree to promote themselves is not challenging. It would be like getting the Premiership teams to agree to more money for everyone.

[Cowden Cowboy]

10 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Getting a whole league to agree to promote themselves is not challenging. It would be like getting the Premiership teams to agree to more money for everyone.

To say they are promoting themselves and that that is the object is nonsensical.  The object is surely to have some influence in a voting system weighted against them so as other parties don’t just impose unwanted things such as Colts, Splits and Regionalisation 

[an86]

12 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Getting a whole league to agree to promote themselves is not challenging. It would be like getting the Premiership teams to agree to more money for everyone.

I really don't understand how people aren't understanding that restructuring is not the same as promotion and relegation. Queen's Park can no more be promoted from the bottom tier to the bottom tier than Clyde can be relegated from the third tier to the third tier. 

[Ranaldo Bairn]

What plans have these altruistic heroes of our time got for the HL and LL winners? 

[craigkillie]

33 minutes ago, an86 said:

I really don't understand how people aren't understanding that restructuring is not the same as promotion and relegation. Queen's Park can no more be promoted from the bottom tier to the bottom tier than Clyde can be relegated from the third tier to the third tier. 

Any reconstruction that increases the league sizes still involves promotion. Inverness would be gaining a promotion to the top flight. Falkirk, Airdrie, Montrose, East Fife and Dumbarton would be gaining a promotion to the second tier, and every single League 2 side except Cove would be gaining a promotion to the third tier. Every single League 2 club would be one step instead of two steps away from getting into a league with full-time teams, and two steps instead of three away from the top flight.

Of course, every club is going to act with some degree of self-interest, it's the pretence that it's not exactly that which gets me.

[Brazilianlex]

8 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Any reconstruction that increases the league sizes still involves promotion. Inverness would be gaining a promotion to the top flight. Falkirk, Airdrie, Montrose, East Fife and Dumbarton would be gaining a promotion to the second tier, and every single League 2 side except Cove would be gaining a promotion to the third tier. Every single League 2 club would be one step instead of two steps away from getting into a league with full-time teams, and two steps instead of three away from the top flight.

Of course, every club is going to act with some degree of self-interest, it's the pretence that it's not exactly that which gets me.

Of course there is self interest. Are you suggesting that Kelty and Brora are not promoting self interest ? Under the current rules, only one of them has a chance of getting in via a play off but now refusing them automatic entry is apparently some sort of mass injustice.

Interesting that 60% of players  favour 3x14s set up. There will no doubt be self interest in that vote too.

[Jack Burton]

I really don't understand how people aren't understanding that restructuring is not the same as promotion and relegation. Queen's Park can no more be promoted from the bottom tier to the bottom tier than Clyde can be relegated from the third tier to the third tier. 

It would very much be viewed by Clyde as a relegation.

We would be playing the same teams as if we had finished 10th and been relegated from league 1. Prize money would be less and we would be only one relegation away from the LL rather than two.

[BFTD]

54 minutes ago, an86 said:

I really don't understand how people aren't understanding that restructuring is not the same as promotion and relegation. Queen's Park can no more be promoted from the bottom tier to the bottom tier than Clyde can be relegated from the third tier to the third tier. 

They understand it. They just don't want to be "relegated" away from matches against "proper" sides above them, like Partick and Falkirk. Annan and Elgin "bring nothing to the table".

Our Rangers-supporting brethren must be delighted to see diddy clubs displaying the same kind of self-interest and arrogance towards smaller clubs that they've been rightly castigated for.

[theoriginalhedge]

10 hours ago, foreverarover said:

12 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Kelty weren't even guaranteed to finish top of their league, being only 6pts clear having played a game more.
Forgive me if I dont feel sympathy if they miss out an apparent guaranteed promotion.

It's irrespective of who is top it was bummed up by the spfl as a pyramid system. This said pyramid system is closed off just to suit themselves.

I think the decision to end the season was made with the assumption that a simplistic 14 -10-10-10 set up would be agreed on with no relegations at all, two up from each league  and two extra clubs being admitted entry. 

For whatever reason , alternative suggestions were proposed which has left us in the position we are now with a whole host of clubs now looking out for their own best interests rather than the easiest and most logical short term solution . 

[Aberdeen Cowden]

7 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

It would very much be viewed by Clyde as a relegation.

We would be playing the same teams as if we had finished 10th and been relegated from league 1. Prize money would be less and we would be only one relegation away from the LL rather than two.

Not Clyde again. Please.

[Jack Burton]

They understand it. They just don't want to be "relegated" away from matches against "proper" sides above them, like Partick and Falkirk. Annan and Elgin "bring nothing to the table".
Our Rangers-supporting brethren must be delighted to see diddy clubs displaying the same kind of self-interest and arrogance towards smaller clubs that they've been rightly castigated for.

And the league 2 clubs aren't voting out of self interest? They want relegation to the LL suspended.

It has nothing to do with arrogance, financially there is a big difference from us playing the currency league 1 sides even excluding Falkirk and Thistle compared to Annan and Elgin. It has nothing to do with them "not bringing anything to the table".

[Jack Burton]

Not Clyde again. Please.

[emoji23]

It took us 9 seasons to get out of league 2 so we are all sick of the sight of each other. We played Edinburgh 7 times and Annan 6 times during 18/19.