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Ways things will change due to COVID-19

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12 hours ago, pawpar said:

Nothing will change. The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer and stupid people will still be stupid and be in the majority.

That's the Dunkirk spirit right there. :lol:

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6 minutes ago, virginton said:

I think you'll find that they are when it comes to measuring whether there has been 'no meaningful harm' on learning outcomes from the current experiment and if education institutions can't cater for them in their sparkly fine tuned VLEs of the future then they'll have a string of lawsuits on their hands. 

They aren't paying for an increasing number of support staff for a laugh either.

Again, I think you're flying far too fast into the future to try and argue with a point I'm not making.

This is not going to happen tomorrow, and support for SEN students is evolving and improving all the time. Current SEN support is not what SEN support is going to be in five years, so it will not be a consideration.

I currently work for one further education outfit and write materials (face-to-face and online based, so I don't care either way) for a group of others. The institutions see one direction of travel on this. Lecturers etc tend to (but not exclusively) disagree. But the fine-tuning of support for SEN or for certain types of assessment is all for the future. It's not relevant to what's happening now.

As I said, I'm not convinced it'll happen. For the same reason I'm not convinced pilotless planes will happen. But, this certainly moves the argument forward in a way nobody thought would happen. Which is the point I've made all along.

Edited by JTS98

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4 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

As I said, I'm not convinced it'll happen. For the same reason I'm not convinced pilotless planes will happen. But, this certainly moves the argument forward in a way nobody thought would happen. Which is the point I've made all along.

Only - as you said - if there's evidence that learning outcomes have not been negatively affected. But I've already set out why that's not going to be the result given the current state of the sector (at least in the UK): a negative result doesn't move the argument forward at all.

Can't imagine that full-time lecturers are loving the current, piss-poor technology and teaching experience either which will make the unions more likely to dig in on this issue in the future.

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1 hour ago, JTS98 said:

Where it's slightly more meaningful at the moment is in further and higher education. A lot of the work is lecture-type situations and now even small group tutorials can be done relatively easily online. They're dealing with students who are at an age where they have the maturity to actually work in an online environment using turn taking and showing patience and attention span. Also, these students do the majority of their work away from rooms anyway.

If it can be observed through learning outcomes that there's no meaningful harm done to students in these environments, then the real work will begin on fine-tuning approaches and materials to make this more of a regular thing and remove the idea that it is somehow less worthy than being physically present.

There's a lot of money to be made in this so if it can be demonstrated to be sound, it will be done. I'm not necessarily jumping either way in terms of whether it will be successful or not, I can see arguments either way. But we're about to find out a lot more than we ever could have before about it.

For school kids it's definitely not as far down the track. I'd ask parents of schoolkids to be kind to the teachers just now, they've been properly chucked in at the deep end.

Most universities were already approaching the end of term anyway, so at the moment we're not really seeing a proper meaningful lecture course being provided via distance learning. It has maybe been a handful of tutorials and revision lectures at most.

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1 minute ago, virginton said:

Only - as you said - if there's evidence that learning outcomes have not been negatively affected. But I've already set out why that's not going to be the result given the current state of the sector (at least in the UK): a negative result doesn't move the argument forward at all.

Of course it does. A negative outcome moves the argument much further forward.

Can't imagine that full-time lecturers are loving the current, piss-poor technology and teaching experience either which will make the unions more likely to dig in on this issue in the future.

Ultimately doesn't matter. They hold sway just now, but they'll be replaced by a new generation and the technology will continue to improve. It's miles better than it was a decade ago, for example. Industries change, and when they do the old guard tend to make a fuss.

 

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3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Most universities were already approaching the end of term anyway, so at the moment we're not really seeing a proper meaningful lecture course being provided via distance learning. It has maybe been a handful of tutorials and revision lectures at most.

Most universities in the UK.

Plenty of academic years are carrying on elsewhere.

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Quote

Of course it does. A negative outcome moves the argument much further forward.

No it quite clearly doesn't. A negative outcome leads more people to conclude from their own experience that remote learning is impractical and encourages more stakeholders in the sector to dig in against it.

Quote

Ultimately doesn't matter. They hold sway just now, but they'll be replaced by a new generation and the technology will continue to improve. It's miles better than it was a decade ago, for example. Industries change, and when they do the old guard tend to make a fuss.

Except that the education sector is not an 'industry' in the private sector sense of the word, which is why is still heavily reliant on technology and fundamental teaching methods that were devised in the 19th century if not earlier.

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There are already vast differences in practice between universities different countries, so I can't imagine the UK sector changing its practices based on how successfully distance learning does or does not work elsewhere in Europe or around the world.

 

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1 hour ago, D.A.F.C said:

Need to reevaluate why capitalism rewards these type of people?
Being nasty and shitting all over others is seen as strength in business.
It's not.

Have you got what it takes to be a manager?

 

Gunnery Sargeant Hartman.jpg

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Need to reevaluate why capitalism rewards these type of people?

Being nasty and shitting all over others is seen as strength in business.

It's not.

My prediction is that we'll see an increase in idiots using the pandemic as a stick with which to beat capitalism and promote their tried and failed methods of governance.

 

The folks who ran communist, socialist, feudal et cetera countries were just as sociopathic as the fuds in charge now.

 

In reality the global left will take a hit as people become fearful of foreigners and public transport while becoming accustomed to an erosion of liberties.

 

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7 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

I get that it suits some people but I find working from home shite.

Cheer up m8.

zdj.glowne_obsessive_emergency_dress_2.j

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Saying that Italy and Spain are being hit the hardest is misleading. These are enormous areas of land. Some of the regions may be okay.

Instead of this can we see where the virus is actually hitting? Is there a map to graph to see which cities or towns are being hit the hardest?

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

I get that it suits some people but I find working from home shite.

I think I'd enjoy it a bit more if I wasn't also doing everything else from home.

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Saying that Italy and Spain are being hit the hardest is misleading. These are enormous areas of land. Some of the regions may be okay.
Instead of this can we see where the virus is actually hitting? Is there a map to graph to see which cities or towns are being hit the hardest?
 
 
 
For Italy, La Repubblica do a very good job, one of the maps is cases per province divided by population, which gives you a much clearer picture of reality. There's really not enough per capita data being given out.

https://lab.gedidigital.it/gedi-visual/2020/coronavirus-i-contagi-in-italia/

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I get that it suits some people but I find working from home shite.


All working is shit. My girlfriend like millions of others in the world commutes 1.5 + hours a day, drops her toddler off in child care for a few hours for a sky high fee and goes to an office and sits at a computer screen all day to speak and deal with people who aren’t even in that office. There is absolutely nothing that she does in the office that she can’t do from home and this is the case for millions of workers in the UK, it’s really not a shit way of doing things.

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31 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

There are already vast differences in practice between universities different countries, so I can't imagine the UK sector changing its practices based on how successfully distance learning does or does not work elsewhere in Europe or around the world.

 

UK universities are desperate for the money that foreign students bring in. There's no way they'll be left behind.

Anyway, the whole thing is very closely linked now. Plenty of universities and colleges have presences or partnerships all over the world. There's just no way the UK will stand still if other countries buy into this. Ultimately, they have to follow the money.

The localities of this aren't really important. It's about the technology being good enough to provide what students need better than the current system. Making it unnecessary for students to commute, or move if they don't want to, or juggle childcare, or giving them more flexible earning options while studying are all quite clear arguments in favour.

There's also a growing view that using tech to put more lectures etc online would free up time for research and give a lot of departments more justification for existence. All depends how it's done.

Many universities now have excellent access to library facilities and support online. There are clear challenges in terms of building academic relationships and providing the opportunity for proper questions and discussions, but fixing that isn't exactly putting a man on the moon.

Like I said, I can see both sides.

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56 minutes ago, virginton said:

No it quite clearly doesn't. A negative outcome leads more people to conclude from their own experience that remote learning is impractical and encourages more stakeholders in the sector to dig in against it.

Except that the education sector is not an 'industry' in the private sector sense of the word, which is why is still heavily reliant on technology and fundamental teaching methods that were devised in the 19th century if not earlier.

Wow.

Where to start with that?

That's only true if you mean in the sense that some people still use pencils and the goal remains to impart information, develop skills, and develop the ability to learn.

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