Maradona was better than Messi

[Ray Patterson]

3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

The film that was on Channel 4 at the weekend managed to make his life semi a bit boring and didn't have nearly enough football.

A lot to unload here.

[Sergeant Wilson]

26 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said:

A lot to unload here.

Seem boring, I hasten to add.

[Terry Singh]

4 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

The film that was on Channel 4 at the weekend managed to make his life seem a bit boring and didn't have nearly enough football.

As said above nearly impossible to judge players from different eras. He was certainly best of his time. My son asked if there was anyone close and I struggled a bit and eventually, half heartedly came up with Platini. He is too different a player to Pele, Messi or C. Ronaldo to compare.

If I was asked who I prefer to watch...probably Messi, slightly in front of Ronaldo.

A wee bit difficult as well when you can watch virtually every single game involving Messi and Ronaldo, we've probably been with them every step of their career.

Italian fitba wasn't even on C4 when Maradona was with Napoli, we only really saw him at Mexico 86 and Italy 90 with a few fleeting glimpses elsewhere.

How can you judge?

[Wile E Coyote]

The thing I took from the documentary was the utter brutality of the tackles trying to stop him in Serie A.  They would be instant red cards these days. I accept the clips they showed were hand picked to illustrate the point but there was an awful lot of them

Edited March 25, 2020 by Wile E Coyote

[highlandcowden]

diego for me

[Monkey Tennis]

21 hours ago, quickoverayard said:

My personal preference is Messi. Yes Diego was sublime and achieved greatness with Argentina and won the World Cup more or less on his ability but some extremely average footballers have won one, so I can’t see why people use it as a gauge. Gattuso won one and he won’t go down as even one of the greats to play in Scotland.

Messi has been unstoppable for what seems to have been a lifetime at the highest level breaking pretty much every record in the game.

I do agree that you can’t compare a modern day footballer to a player of old as it’s a different game.
 

The fact that ordinary players have won World Cups is hardly relevant because as you say yourself, the point is the fact that Maradona was seen to have won it single handedly.  It's easy to overstate the significance of an individual, but in that case he really did make all the difference.

I'm aware that there's a general tendency with these things for people to favour the figure from the era of their own youth.  I'm doing it anyway though.  Maradona was truly sensational.

[Sergeant Wilson]

There will always be varying degrees of ability and effectiveness in a squad, but "ordinary" should be used with a bit of perspective. I doubt there were many mugs in the teams Maradona played in.

[Monkey Tennis]

On 25/03/2020 at 12:40, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

That Argentina team was the best team in that tournament.  I don't think people realise how close they were to winning it three times in a row if things had gone a wee bit different.  And would have been four out of five.

That 1994 side was nothing to write home about.  

They exited in the first knock-out round, in an admittedly great match.

Their conquerors went out in the next round and their conquerors In turn met the same fate.  They hardly came close.

[RandomGuy.]

On 25/03/2020 at 12:31, sjc said:

He dragged that fairly ordinary Argentina side to the World Cup in 1986 and very nearly again in 1990.

 

 

On 25/03/2020 at 12:35, Comrie said:

Would argue that while the Argentina team Maradona had probably didn't have the attacking options Messi's era has.

Footballs greatest myth.

His striking partner in 86 was a Real Madrid striker, who had a better than a goal a game average for them. The majority of the side were the best players in South American football at the time, and I'm fairly certain a chunk had been part of a side that beat Liverpool in the Club World Cup not long before the tournament. They wouldve challenged for the trophy without Maradona.

[Comrie]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

Footballs greatest myth.

His striking partner in 86 was a Real Madrid striker, who had a better than a goal a game average for them. The majority of the side were the best players in South American football at the time, and I'm fairly certain a chunk had been part of a side that beat Liverpool in the Club World Cup not long before the tournament. They wouldve challenged for the trophy without Maradona.

Valdano is the one guy from the rest of their attack I would say is world class- the others to me, appeared to be good, solid pros. I was only 2 when 86 happened so I doubt I watched any of it.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

4 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

Footballs greatest myth.

His striking partner in 86 was a Real Madrid striker, who had a better than a goal a game average for them. The majority of the side were the best players in South American football at the time, and I'm fairly certain a chunk had been part of a side that beat Liverpool in the Club World Cup not long before the tournament. They wouldve challenged for the trophy without Maradona.

Except for the fact they would have gone out in the quarters obviously, and semi, and lost the final, and would have gone out at the group stage if not for him. Oh, and also carrying them through qualification, and the fact they weren't one of the top seeded countries for that tournament.r

So apart from Maradona carrying them through qualification, the group stage, all knockout stages and the final, you're totally spot on.

[Wile E Coyote]

15 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Except for the fact they would have gone out in the quarters obviously, and semi, and lost the final, and would have gone out at the group stage if not for him. Oh, and also carrying them through qualification, and the fact they weren't one of the top seeded countries for that tournament.r

So apart from Maradona carrying them through qualification, the group stage, all knockout stages and the final, you're totally spot on.

This is spot on. Anybody trying to argue that the 1986 Argentina team was any better than decent without Maradona is either at it or never watched them

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

Maradona couldn't lace Messi's boots. Probably can't lace his own either. 

[pawpar]

3 hours ago, Barry Ferguson's Hat said:

Messi couldn't lace Maradona's boots. Probably can't lace his own either. 

FTFY. To be a great world player you have to win both at club and international level. Maradona, Pele, Ronaldo have won both. Messi has shown when it comes to either the world cup or the copa america he is bang average. Without a doubt the most overated player of all time. Until he wins either the world cup or copa america history will show 100 years from now no one will know he is.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

1 hour ago, pawpar said:

FTFY. To be a great world player you have to win both at club and international level. Maradona, Pele, Ronaldo have won both. Messi has shown when it comes to either the world cup or the copa america he is bang average. Without a doubt the most overated player of all time. Until he wins either the world cup or copa america history will show 100 years from now no one will know he is.

Citation needed. 

Pele's club career amounted to not a lot more than him toeing balls between garden goalposts. 

Edited March 29, 2020 by Barry Ferguson's Hat

[Guest Moomintroll]

I have said it before, but peak Maradona, with the protection that Referees give nowadays, would run amok in any generation. Much as it pains me to agree with Pepp, if the drug free Diego was playing before the current lockdown, he would be tearing defences a new one on a weekly basis safe in the knowledge that no pyscho from Bilbao (other Cities are available), could smash his shins for the price of a stern ticking off, or at worst, a yellow card.

[Lurkst]

On 25/03/2020 at 12:40, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

That Argentina team was the best team in that tournament.  I don't think people realise how close they were to winning it three times in a row if things had gone a wee bit different.  

The game where Romania knocked them out was one of the best I've seen.

For younger readers, Maradona was watching from the stands having failed a drugs test.

Extremely flawed character but still the GOAT for me.

 

[Derry Alli]

6 hours ago, pawpar said:

FTFY. To be a great world player you have to win both 

A great world player? 

[thisal]

Comparing different eras is impossible.  Football is completely different now. The most obvious difference is the protection players get. Pitch conditions are better. Sports science means players are better athletes. You could say that is an argument for Maradona but modern coaches go into much more detailed tactics. The opposition would have studied every second of Maradona from every angle. Sports science would benefit Maradona but it would also mean he would be facing stronger and faster opponents.

But its all about opinions, so I'm going for Maradona, but I've always been biased since I saw him take the pish out of Scotland as a teenager in 1979.

Also Jesse Owen's best time wouldn't have got past the first round at the 2016 Olympics. But he was such a stand out you would have to think that with modern tracks, equipment and sports science would  the man to beat. 

[sjc]

On 29/03/2020 at 02:25, RandomGuy. said:

 

Footballs greatest myth.

His striking partner in 86 was a Real Madrid striker, who had a better than a goal a game average for them. The majority of the side were the best players in South American football at the time, and I'm fairly certain a chunk had been part of a side that beat Liverpool in the Club World Cup not long before the tournament. They wouldve challenged for the trophy without Maradona.

Where are you getting this from? He scored 40 goals in 85 games for Real between 84-87. His 7 goals in 23 appearances for Argentina between 75-90 hardly scream prolific. 

He was a good player, along with Burrachaga no doubt but anyone that says that Argentina side could have won that WC without Maradona belies what I witnessed with my own eyes. They were fairly ordinary.