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2019-20 how to conclude.

F*** Mr Cockwomble, we'll decide!  

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3 hours ago, Clyde01 said:

In a 14 team league the split would be better if it was 6-8 as well to save a team sitting out each week. That means 36 total games for the 6 and 40 total games for the 8. Every team plays each team home and away a balanced number of times, unlike current system.

I fail to understand why anyone thinks playing fully four extra games in the bottom half is a better idea than just saying ‘everybody gets a free week at some point: get over it’. You can even arrange the fixtures - as they already do after the split - to give the team with the least chance of competing for anything the free week on the final day of the season.

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2 hours ago, MOFOREVER said:

Many of the posts on here seem to favour the null and void option but do we have to make a decision yet? We usually have at least a 2 month close season break (excluding play-offs and pre-season games). We don’t know how long this lockdown is going to last, it could be 6 months or more.

The season has gone within 9 games of finishing for most teams so the thought of it being called off as null and void is only likely to favour those clubs who are in relegation trouble. Those in mid-table might not be too fussed but those still in with promotion possibilities or chasing places in Europe will want a proper finish to the season.

So does a decision HAVE to be made yet?

At present my preference is to not make a decision yet but to treat the present situation as the close season then on restart to complete the remaining 2019/20 fixtures to have a proper end to the season. What I do think though is that it would be sensible to truncate the play-offs by having them over one leg rather than two. That done, we then have a very short break and then start the next season even if that’s in September, October or later. A season doesn’t have to start in July and we don’t need so many League Cup Group games in the present scenario. That next season would last BEYOND April 2021 but so what, we could stretch out a couple of seasons with shorter close seasons until we catch up and completing the present season if at all possible is surely fairer to all.

Clearly there are more than logistical problems though.

1.       The viability of several clubs is clearly in doubt due to this lockdown and we as fans have no overall control over that. Perish the thought but if a club goes under in the meantime i.e, before the 2019/20 season is completed we would probably have to expunge the results of that club.

2.       Many players will be out of contract in June or earlier. I doubt if we can force players or clubs to extend contracts so carrying on in business is in the hands of each club barring miracle intervention of the financial sort. In other words football can only carry on with those clubs which are still in existence and it’s up to each club what players they have. In that respect some tweak of the Scottish League transfer window might have to be thought through to avoid any club taking unfair advantage of the situation.

3.       The clubs vying for Europe places might be in difficulty if European football starts as normal – how likely is that though!

4.       In carrying out the above plan we still involve the HL and LL champions and they could toss a coin for home advantage or play at a neutral venue. The game against Club 42 could also be at neutral venue.

5.       Scotland might be out of step with the rest of Europe – so what, we all start and finish at different times now and we should still be able to fit in International games.

The lockdown might last more than 6 months but if it does it impacts even more on the following season anyway so I don’t see that as a reason not to complete the 2019/20 season.

You say the decision doesn't have to be made right now and to an immediate extent you're correct, but it will still have to be made at some point. If these were normal times then right about now clubs would be in talks with their players and planning for next season, with that in mind a number of those same players are out of contract in June and would be talking to clubs. You have to think that even with no prospect of football anytime soon these guys will still be wanting to sort out their futures in the way of contracts for next season.... whenever that may be.

Regarding the logistical problems club viability is paramount of concern, so how do you conclude a season in a league where some of the participants have gone bust?  It is perhaps handy that there is exactly 9 games each left in L1 to play but what about the other leagues where teams have played a disproportionate amount of games? What a mess that would be to sort out. I know you suggested expunging results against of any clubs that had gone but is there a precedent for this, I could imagine this would be a highly debatable option and in the end no more useful than letting results stand.

Had this only been a short break of a few weeks or even as much as 6 weeks there probably would have been time enough that this season could have been played out, but Scottish football is as good as admitting that there will almost certainly be no football played until August and as such I cannot see that happening. If that's the case I can see no sense nor value in putting off making any decision. Given what we know about players contracts finishing in June (I believe after June Falkirk will have around 10 signed players, Raith 9, Montrose 7, Airdrie 6, East Fife 5) and the more pressing worry that by August there may well be clubs missing from the lists if that's the case I cannot see any way that season 2019/20 can be played to anything nearing a satisfactory finish.

If it passes that there are no more games played before June then one way or another it'd be better to make the hard choices and clear the boards to get things ready for the first whistle of the new season rather than have a pre-season, play the 9 games then muck about with the league and challenge cups and try to kick off a league season too.

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Wouldn't null and void mean no European football next season? Would season tickets be issued free to the holders from the void season?
Would players contracts be extended or would they play for free? If they are extended are the clubs allowed to claim last seasons salaries from the SPFL?
Lastly, would the SPFL have to pay back TV rights from the void season?
For me null and void won't happen, if it did we wouldn't have an SPFL they'd be bust, which might not be a bad thing

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You say the decision doesn't have to be made right now and to an immediate extent you're correct, but it will still have to be made at some point. If these were normal times then right about now clubs would be in talks with their players and planning for next season, with that in mind a number of those same players are out of contract in June and would be talking to clubs. You have to think that even with no prospect of football anytime soon these guys will still be wanting to sort out their futures in the way of contracts for next season.... whenever that may be.
Regarding the logistical problems club viability is paramount of concern, so how do you conclude a season in a league where some of the participants have gone bust?  It is perhaps handy that there is exactly 9 games each left in L1 to play but what about the other leagues where teams have played a disproportionate amount of games? What a mess that would be to sort out. I know you suggested expunging results against of any clubs that had gone but is there a precedent for this, I could imagine this would be a highly debatable option and in the end no more useful than letting results stand.
Had this only been a short break of a few weeks or even as much as 6 weeks there probably would have been time enough that this season could have been played out, but Scottish football is as good as admitting that there will almost certainly be no football played until August and as such I cannot see that happening. If that's the case I can see no sense nor value in putting off making any decision. Given what we know about players contracts finishing in June (I believe after June Falkirk will have around 10 signed players, Raith 9, Montrose 7, Airdrie 6, East Fife 5) and the more pressing worry that by August there may well be clubs missing from the lists if that's the case I cannot see any way that season 2019/20 can be played to anything nearing a satisfactory finish.
If it passes that there are no more games played before June then one way or another it'd be better to make the hard choices and clear the boards to get things ready for the first whistle of the new season rather than have a pre-season, play the 9 games then muck about with the league and challenge cups and try to kick off a league season too.
East fife have 9/10 signed for next season

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15 hours ago, Life on Marrs? said:

Not quite sure what legal action there is to take if season can't finish. If a horse race gets abandoned halfway, they don't award it to whoever was in front.

I know it seems unfair, on certain clubs but in the current circumstances, it's probably the best solution, then start afresh when this is over. 

st_mirren_manager_alex_rae_looks_on_during_the_scottish_champion_559551.jpg.08f10ae1ba7975529041ca2e20ff4020.jpg

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3 hours ago, Starks Park Kdy said:

Wouldn't null and void mean no European football next season? Would season tickets be issued free to the holders from the void season?
Would players contracts be extended or would they play for free? If they are extended are the clubs allowed to claim last seasons salaries from the SPFL?
Lastly, would the SPFL have to pay back TV rights from the void season?
For me null and void won't happen, if it did we wouldn't have an SPFL they'd be bust, which might not be a bad thing emoji23.png

Null and void doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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English non league clubs are kicking up a right fuss over it, can imagine the SPFL are shitting it over having to piss off either Celtic or Rangers. 

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3 hours ago, Starks Park Kdy said:

Wouldn't null and void mean no European football next season? Would season tickets be issued free to the holders from the void season?
Would players contracts be extended or would they play for free? If they are extended are the clubs allowed to claim last seasons salaries from the SPFL?
Lastly, would the SPFL have to pay back TV rights from the void season?
For me null and void won't happen, if it did we wouldn't have an SPFL they'd be bust, which might not be a bad thing emoji23.png

I'm guessing european places would go by current league standings. 

Why would you expect free season tickets? You had 15 or so games worth of entertainment. Same with TV companies. 

We would just scrub this season and start 2020/21 from scratch in the Autumn. No promotion or relegations from this cancelled season. 

Would it really be the end of the world, considering what is going on? 

Let's hope we are, clubs and fans around to see next season. 

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I'm guessing european places would go by current league standings. 
Why would you expect free season tickets? You had 15 or so games worth of entertainment. Same with TV companies. 
We would just scrub this season and start 2020/21 from scratch in the Autumn. No promotion or relegations from this cancelled season. 
Would it really be the end of the world, considering what is going on? 
Let's hope we are, clubs and fans around to see next season. 
I suppose what I'm implying is that the SPFL will do what is going impact their finances the least.
It's one big can of worms where they probably can't do right for wrong depending on which team you support.

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I'm guessing european places would go by current league standings. 
Why would you expect free season tickets? You had 15 or so games worth of entertainment. Same with TV companies. 
We would just scrub this season and start 2020/21 from scratch in the Autumn. No promotion or relegations from this cancelled season. 
Would it really be the end of the world, considering what is going on? 
Let's hope we are, clubs and fans around to see next season. 


So you can award European places based on current standings but not promotion or relegation?
Seems an odd distinction to make.

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16 minutes ago, Starks Park Kdy said:
1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:
Null and void doesn't mean it didn't happen.

It kind of does if we have no conclusion.

No, it'll just mean it didn't end. The games will still have happened, TV companies will still have made money by people tuning into games. Players will still have played in games that generated revenues for clubs.

So I'd imagine that almost all of your doomsday type scenarios have no chance of happening.

A TV company isn't going to go fucking radge about not getting a full season and then be totally calmed down because the blazers sat down and decided to award championships and decide promotion/relegation without actually playing any games and finishing the season.

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3 minutes ago, stevoraith said:

 


So you can award European places based on current standings but not promotion or relegation?
Seems an odd distinction to make.

 

European football doesn't happen without clubs being put forward by each country. Football leagues can continue without promotion and relegation.

Of course, they could just decide to restart European competitions with the same teams as this season.

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I understand how it works, but exactly the same “we had a chance of finishing in that position” argument could be made for Euro places as for promotion/relegation so if you can award one on a partially completed season then your argument for not awarding the other kind of loses credibility.

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Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Stranraer would still be in the third tier, where they are now, with a very realistic chance of promotion to the second tier. Surely that’s better than sitting struggling in the third tier, with only a truly exceptional season being likely to take them into tier 2? It’d be easier to stay there if they made it too. Try looking beyond next season.

Cove would maybe be the sole losers of a 14-14-14, they’d still go up a tier technically but obviously the rest of the league moves with them. But one team out of 42 unhappy would surely go down as a result? No matter what you do, some teams are going to be pissed off. There isn’t a solution that pleases everyone, and there isn’t a solution that you can call ‘right’.

Our current ten team leagues are shite. We accept them because they’re what we’re used to but it’s turgid playing the same teams at least four times a season, often more, so if we could use this crisis to try something new out I’d be very happy.
Playing in league one is a huge improvement over league two. We stunk out the place in league two for 9 years. No Clyde fan will be in a rush to play the likes of Elgin, Annan etc yet again.

Promoting the top 2 in each league with no relegation is the fairest way to go.

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Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Stranraer would still be in the third tier, where they are now, with a very realistic chance of promotion to the second tier. Surely that’s better than sitting struggling in the third tier, with only a truly exceptional season being likely to take them into tier 2? It’d be easier to stay there if they made it too. Try looking beyond next season.

Cove would maybe be the sole losers of a 14-14-14, they’d still go up a tier technically but obviously the rest of the league moves with them. But one team out of 42 unhappy would surely go down as a result? No matter what you do, some teams are going to be pissed off. There isn’t a solution that pleases everyone, and there isn’t a solution that you can call ‘right’.

Our current ten team leagues are shite. We accept them because they’re what we’re used to but it’s turgid playing the same teams at least four times a season, often more, so if we could use this crisis to try something new out I’d be very happy.


So Clyde will console themselves with still on paper being a third tier side but having swapped games against Raith, Falkirk, Airdrie, potentially Thistle for games against Elgin, Cowdenbeath etc with their 3 men and a dug supporters. Right you are then .

Your last point is also pish as you claim playing 4 times a season is turgid and want to replace it with leagues of 14 where we play (you guessed it) 4 times a season. Eureka!

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6 hours ago, sirscottyoung said:
17 hours ago, Scottydog said:
You say the decision doesn't have to be made right now and to an immediate extent you're correct, but it will still have to be made at some point.......
Had this only been a short break of a few weeks or even as much as 6 weeks there probably would have been time enough that this season could have been played out, but Scottish football is as good as admitting that there will almost certainly be no football played until August and as such I cannot see that happening. If that's the case I can see no sense nor value in putting off making any decision. Given what we know about players contracts finishing in June (I believe after June Falkirk will have around 10 signed players, Raith 9, Montrose 7, Airdrie 6, East Fife 5) and the more pressing worry that by August there may well be clubs missing from the lists if that's the case I cannot see any way that season 2019/20 can be played to anything nearing a satisfactory finish.

East fife have 9/10 signed for next season

Apologies I was only going by Transfermarkt, they only list: Dunlop, Slattery, Agnew and Watt as being signed for Fife beyond June 2020. Wallace has no date next to him so I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

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On 29/03/2020 at 22:25, L. Brilliant said:

A4 Definitions ('season')

C38 Champion Clubs 

https://spfl.co.uk/pages/rules-and-regulations

This seems pretty clear to me, no? If a team is position 1 at the conclusion of a season, they're declared Champions. If the season is concluded early, how is that different?

I'm still baffled that with 8 games left to play, there are people who want the whole thing voided. If a team has done well throughout, they should be rewarded as such. The playoff standings are where the waters are muddied, that's a different ball game.

I can understand the no relegations, so for one season there is a:

14 team Premiership

12 team Champ/L1/L2 (with both the winners of the HL and LL being promoted)

and at the end of 20/21 more teams are relegated than promoted and the numbers are reset. That makes total sense. Which brings me to the other point that baffles me. Why are people trying to overcomplicate things with regional splits and 16 team leagues?! It's just stupid. Surely the aim should be to carry things on with the least amount of confusion and upheaval possible?

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1 hour ago, Brian Carrigan said:

This seems pretty clear to me, no? If a team is position 1 at the conclusion of a season, they're declared Champions. If the season is concluded early, how is that different?

I'm still baffled that with 8 games left to play, there are people who want the whole thing voided. If a team has done well throughout, they should be rewarded as such. The playoff standings are where the waters are muddied, that's a different ball game.

I can understand the no relegations, so for one season there is a:

14 team Premiership

12 team Champ/L1/L2 (with both the winners of the HL and LL being promoted)

and at the end of 20/21 more teams are relegated than promoted and the numbers are reset. That makes total sense. Which brings me to the other point that baffles me. Why are people trying to overcomplicate things with regional splits and 16 team leagues?! It's just stupid. Surely the aim should be to carry things on with the least amount of confusion and upheaval possible?

As a Rovers fan you certainly won't get an argument from me.

But if you promote 2 into the SPL from the Championship then two up from each of other leagues surely there'd still be 10 in each of the other leagues not 12? (10-2+2=10).

Or am I missing something. 

The above scenario is not perfect (but then what would be?) but is probably the least damaging solution when all is said and done. Desperate times call for desperate measures but that's no reason not to look for the best/least invasive option.

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