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2019-20 how to conclude.


F*** Mr Cockwomble, we'll decide!  

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18 hours ago, sirscottyoung said:

Was sitting the other day working out some stuff for work and thought I would work out the plan for what to do going forward.

Thought about a full change
14 team leagues x 3
Then the Highland and lowland.
Then the Eos, wos, sos etc

Do a 7 team split half way through season so after 26 games (home and away) so top 7 play each other 2 times and bottom 7 play each other 2 times (home and away). As I noticed Michael Stewart says it's contractual for old firm....

Top 2 automatically go up a league like English leagues.
Can do the play offs like we do currently or have a 3rd v 12th in league above play off "final" only.



IMG_20200329_191128.jpeg

It took us 9 years to escape from playing perma-pish like QP, Cowdenbeath & Albion Rovers, so you can take that idea/project/blue sky thinking and ram it.

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4 hours ago, Bantabairn said:

First decent post on here, Scottish Football is run primarily by the Glasgow two, coupled with these unprecedented times, all the therapeutic dreams of two up and all the other stuff is just nonsense 

My opinion is that the only option is to forget what has happened this season.

Forget any reconstruction, this season will be “ lost” and only waiting on the length of lockdown to see when the new season starts, this looks like well into the Autumn. For consolations 

Winners - Hearts Partick Stranraer Brechin

Losers - Celtic Dundee Utd Cove 

I did think about the possibility of play offs between Hearts/Utd, Partick/Raith & Stranraer/Cove, but then Partick have a game on hand over QoS. There's no workable way to continue this season, if this goes on much longer. Sorry to disappoint but there's no other way. 

Celtic, 8 & a half in a row! 

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Was sitting the other day working out some stuff for work and thought I would work out the plan for what to do going forward. 

Thought about a full change

14 team leagues x 3

Then the Highland and lowland.

Then the Eos, wos, sos etc

 

Do a 7 team split half way through season so after 26 games (home and away) so top 7 play each other 2 times and bottom 7 play each other 2 times (home and away). As I noticed Michael Stewart says it's contractual for old firm....

 

Top 2 automatically go up a league like English leagues.

Can do the play offs like we do currently or have a 3rd v 12th in league above play off "final" only.

 

 

 

IMG_20200329_191128.thumb.jpeg.0f9a9a64b605f3674051e9d03863b362.jpeg

 

 

So Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Stranraer are effectively relegated. Cove win the league for nothing and Brechin survive meaning Kelty and or Brora are denied promotion. What a pile of shite.

 

ETA: you would be better promoting the top 2 in each league with no relegation and promote kelty and Brora. Go 14-10-10-10 with the potential to revert back if that was the consensus.

 

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In a 14 team league the split would be better if it was 6-8 as well to save a team sitting out each week. That means 36 total games for the 6 and 40 total games for the 8. Every team plays each team home and away a balanced number of times, unlike current system.

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The UEFA decision to back heel responsibility allow nations to decide for themselves is definitely not what oor spineless b*****ds in blazers were hoping for.  They will now actively be looking at any scenario that will not involve costly legal actions against them and when that fails they will be looking at any madcap plan that will cost them the least in compensation.

Calling a halt as is, will mean legal action from Hearts and probably Falkirk and possibly Brechin. Calling 2019-20 null and void will see legal action from Dundee Utd and Raith Rovers. No relegation and a league shuffle gets them out of jail but at a logistical cost.

As a body they will bury their heads in the sand dithering and procrastinating then probably say they are still opting to play out all the games  however long it takes in the hope that it will all just go away. Once 2 or 3 clubs go bust they will eventually be forced into action.

People moaning that a return to 3 leagues and potentially meaningless fixtures would do well to note that this is not only a favoured argument made mostly by the ugly sisters but also the reason why these days young talent is stifled and kids can't get a chance in the game. Many a prospect got his chance at the latter end of the campaign once there was less at stake, now its too tight and it's cut throat to the end....and it's still not that exciting.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Scottydog said:

The UEFA decision to back heel responsibility allow nations to decide for themselves is definitely not what oor spineless b*****ds in blazers were hoping for.  They will now actively be looking at any scenario that will not involve costly legal actions against them and when that fails they will be looking at any madcap plan that will cost them the least in compensation.

Calling a halt as is, will mean legal action from Hearts and probably Falkirk and possibly Brechin. Calling 2019-20 null and void will see legal action from Dundee Utd and Raith Rovers. No relegation and a league shuffle gets them out of jail but at a logistical cost.

As a body they will bury their heads in the sand dithering and procrastinating then probably say they are still opting to play out all the games  however long it takes in the hope that it will all just go away. Once 2 or 3 clubs go bust they will eventually be forced into action.

People moaning that a return to 3 leagues and potentially meaningless fixtures would do well to note that this is not only a favoured argument made mostly by the ugly sisters but also the reason why these days young talent is stifled and kids can't get a chance in the game. Many a prospect got his chance at the latter end of the campaign once there was less at stake, now its too tight and it's cut throat to the end....and it's still not that exciting.

 

 

Not a hope in hell the Rovers will take legal action. Celtic would though.

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8 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Not a hope in hell the Rovers will take legal action. Celtic would though.

Not quite sure what legal action there is to take if season can't finish. If a horse race gets abandoned halfway, they don't award it to whoever was in front.

I know it seems unfair, on certain clubs but in the current circumstances, it's probably the best solution, then start afresh when this is over. 

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34 minutes ago, Life on Marrs? said:

Not quite sure what legal action there is to take if season can't finish. If a horse race gets abandoned halfway, they don't award it to whoever was in front.

I know it seems unfair, on certain clubs but in the current circumstances, it's probably the best solution, then start afresh when this is over. 

The horse race argument doesn’t wash in this scenario as a horse race is a one off event, the football season is not. If Falkirk fans want to moan if Raith do get promoted then they should look at their management team as if they hadn’t come to Starks Park recently to park the bus and scrape a draw rather than going for a win then they would have a stronger argument as they would have been top of the league if they had won the three points...if Celtic get awarded the league then DDUTD , Raith and Cove have to get it too, and I don’t  see the powers that be being strong enough to take it away from Celtic.

Some teams are going to suffer out of this but I really don’t see clubs taking legal action, not in this climate , we all have personal interests for our own teams but I’m just not sure that we have strong enough leadership to make a quick decision and it could go on for weeks yet.

 

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Still don’t agree with the “sorry, null and void is the only option” brigade.

The way they say it, it’s as if there is some sort of precedent or a clause in the regulations that hints at that being the preferred option.

Null and void or call the season as it is are equally as valid as each other. Both have massive flaws and both will piss off a number of teams.

Three leagues of 14 is too radical.

Promote the top two from each league with no relegation still seems to be the option which pisses off the fewest teams by the least amount.

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Many of the posts on here seem to favour the null and void option but do we have to make a decision yet? We usually have at least a 2 month close season break (excluding play-offs and pre-season games). We don’t know how long this lockdown is going to last, it could be 6 months or more.

The season has gone within 9 games of finishing for most teams so the thought of it being called off as null and void is only likely to favour those clubs who are in relegation trouble. Those in mid-table might not be too fussed but those still in with promotion possibilities or chasing places in Europe will want a proper finish to the season.

So does a decision HAVE to be made yet?

At present my preference is to not make a decision yet but to treat the present situation as the close season then on restart to complete the remaining 2019/20 fixtures to have a proper end to the season. What I do think though is that it would be sensible to truncate the play-offs by having them over one leg rather than two. That done, we then have a very short break and then start the next season even if that’s in September, October or later. A season doesn’t have to start in July and we don’t need so many League Cup Group games in the present scenario. That next season would last BEYOND April 2021 but so what, we could stretch out a couple of seasons with shorter close seasons until we catch up and completing the present season if at all possible is surely fairer to all.

Clearly there are more than logistical problems though.

1.       The viability of several clubs is clearly in doubt due to this lockdown and we as fans have no overall control over that. Perish the thought but if a club goes under in the meantime i.e, before the 2019/20 season is completed we would probably have to expunge the results of that club.

2.       Many players will be out of contract in June or earlier. I doubt if we can force players or clubs to extend contracts so carrying on in business is in the hands of each club barring miracle intervention of the financial sort. In other words football can only carry on with those clubs which are still in existence and it’s up to each club what players they have. In that respect some tweak of the Scottish League transfer window might have to be thought through to avoid any club taking unfair advantage of the situation.

3.       The clubs vying for Europe places might be in difficulty if European football starts as normal – how likely is that though!

4.       In carrying out the above plan we still involve the HL and LL champions and they could toss a coin for home advantage or play at a neutral venue. The game against Club 42 could also be at neutral venue.

5.       Scotland might be out of step with the rest of Europe – so what, we all start and finish at different times now and we should still be able to fit in International games.

The lockdown might last more than 6 months but if it does it impacts even more on the following season anyway so I don’t see that as a reason not to complete the 2019/20 season.

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 So Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Stranraer are effectively relegated. Cove win the league for nothing and Brechin survive meaning Kelty and or Brora are denied promotion. What a pile of shite.



Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Stranraer would still be in the third tier, where they are now, with a very realistic chance of promotion to the second tier. Surely that’s better than sitting struggling in the third tier, with only a truly exceptional season being likely to take them into tier 2? It’d be easier to stay there if they made it too. Try looking beyond next season.

Cove would maybe be the sole losers of a 14-14-14, they’d still go up a tier technically but obviously the rest of the league moves with them. But one team out of 42 unhappy would surely go down as a result? No matter what you do, some teams are going to be pissed off. There isn’t a solution that pleases everyone, and there isn’t a solution that you can call ‘right’.

Our current ten team leagues are shite. We accept them because they’re what we’re used to but it’s turgid playing the same teams at least four times a season, often more, so if we could use this crisis to try something new out I’d be very happy.
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1 hour ago, Paco said:

 


Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Stranraer would still be in the third tier, where they are now, with a very realistic chance of promotion to the second tier. Surely that’s better than sitting struggling in the third tier, with only a truly exceptional season being likely to take them into tier 2? It’d be easier to stay there if they made it too. Try looking beyond next season.

Cove would maybe be the sole losers of a 14-14-14, they’d still go up a tier technically but obviously the rest of the league moves with them. But one team out of 42 unhappy would surely go down as a result? No matter what you do, some teams are going to be pissed off. There isn’t a solution that pleases everyone, and there isn’t a solution that you can call ‘right’.

Our current ten team leagues are shite. We accept them because they’re what we’re used to but it’s turgid playing the same teams at least four times a season, often more, so if we could use this crisis to try something new out I’d be very happy.

 

1 team out of 42.

Right we will piss oof Raith then. You play in the 3rd tier, where you are now, and we'll go up one. Sorted.

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3 hours ago, Clyde01 said:

In a 14 team league the split would be better if it was 6-8 as well to save a team sitting out each week. That means 36 total games for the 6 and 40 total games for the 8. Every team plays each team home and away a balanced number of times, unlike current system.

I fail to understand why anyone thinks playing fully four extra games in the bottom half is a better idea than just saying ‘everybody gets a free week at some point: get over it’. You can even arrange the fixtures - as they already do after the split - to give the team with the least chance of competing for anything the free week on the final day of the season.

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2 hours ago, MOFOREVER said:

Many of the posts on here seem to favour the null and void option but do we have to make a decision yet? We usually have at least a 2 month close season break (excluding play-offs and pre-season games). We don’t know how long this lockdown is going to last, it could be 6 months or more.

The season has gone within 9 games of finishing for most teams so the thought of it being called off as null and void is only likely to favour those clubs who are in relegation trouble. Those in mid-table might not be too fussed but those still in with promotion possibilities or chasing places in Europe will want a proper finish to the season.

So does a decision HAVE to be made yet?

At present my preference is to not make a decision yet but to treat the present situation as the close season then on restart to complete the remaining 2019/20 fixtures to have a proper end to the season. What I do think though is that it would be sensible to truncate the play-offs by having them over one leg rather than two. That done, we then have a very short break and then start the next season even if that’s in September, October or later. A season doesn’t have to start in July and we don’t need so many League Cup Group games in the present scenario. That next season would last BEYOND April 2021 but so what, we could stretch out a couple of seasons with shorter close seasons until we catch up and completing the present season if at all possible is surely fairer to all.

Clearly there are more than logistical problems though.

1.       The viability of several clubs is clearly in doubt due to this lockdown and we as fans have no overall control over that. Perish the thought but if a club goes under in the meantime i.e, before the 2019/20 season is completed we would probably have to expunge the results of that club.

2.       Many players will be out of contract in June or earlier. I doubt if we can force players or clubs to extend contracts so carrying on in business is in the hands of each club barring miracle intervention of the financial sort. In other words football can only carry on with those clubs which are still in existence and it’s up to each club what players they have. In that respect some tweak of the Scottish League transfer window might have to be thought through to avoid any club taking unfair advantage of the situation.

3.       The clubs vying for Europe places might be in difficulty if European football starts as normal – how likely is that though!

4.       In carrying out the above plan we still involve the HL and LL champions and they could toss a coin for home advantage or play at a neutral venue. The game against Club 42 could also be at neutral venue.

5.       Scotland might be out of step with the rest of Europe – so what, we all start and finish at different times now and we should still be able to fit in International games.

The lockdown might last more than 6 months but if it does it impacts even more on the following season anyway so I don’t see that as a reason not to complete the 2019/20 season.

You say the decision doesn't have to be made right now and to an immediate extent you're correct, but it will still have to be made at some point. If these were normal times then right about now clubs would be in talks with their players and planning for next season, with that in mind a number of those same players are out of contract in June and would be talking to clubs. You have to think that even with no prospect of football anytime soon these guys will still be wanting to sort out their futures in the way of contracts for next season.... whenever that may be.

Regarding the logistical problems club viability is paramount of concern, so how do you conclude a season in a league where some of the participants have gone bust?  It is perhaps handy that there is exactly 9 games each left in L1 to play but what about the other leagues where teams have played a disproportionate amount of games? What a mess that would be to sort out. I know you suggested expunging results against of any clubs that had gone but is there a precedent for this, I could imagine this would be a highly debatable option and in the end no more useful than letting results stand.

Had this only been a short break of a few weeks or even as much as 6 weeks there probably would have been time enough that this season could have been played out, but Scottish football is as good as admitting that there will almost certainly be no football played until August and as such I cannot see that happening. If that's the case I can see no sense nor value in putting off making any decision. Given what we know about players contracts finishing in June (I believe after June Falkirk will have around 10 signed players, Raith 9, Montrose 7, Airdrie 6, East Fife 5) and the more pressing worry that by August there may well be clubs missing from the lists if that's the case I cannot see any way that season 2019/20 can be played to anything nearing a satisfactory finish.

If it passes that there are no more games played before June then one way or another it'd be better to make the hard choices and clear the boards to get things ready for the first whistle of the new season rather than have a pre-season, play the 9 games then muck about with the league and challenge cups and try to kick off a league season too.

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Wouldn't null and void mean no European football next season? Would season tickets be issued free to the holders from the void season?
Would players contracts be extended or would they play for free? If they are extended are the clubs allowed to claim last seasons salaries from the SPFL?
Lastly, would the SPFL have to pay back TV rights from the void season?
For me null and void won't happen, if it did we wouldn't have an SPFL they'd be bust, which might not be a bad thing [emoji23]

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