League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[craigkillie]

To be fair, it must be hard for fans of clubs like St Mirren and Dundee to see the likes of St Johnstone, Motherwell and Killie, who they probably see as their equals, doing consistently better than them over a 25+ year period. I'd probably start to get jealous in their position too.

[GNU_Linux]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18357931.spfl-urged-introduce-premiership-reserve-teams-regionalised-lower-leagues-radical-shake-up/

Horrific stuff from Gordon Smith

WHEN Gordon Smith first floated his revolutionary plan to regionalise the lower leagues and incorporate top flight reserve sides into the new-look structure during his time as SFA chief executive he was disappointed by the response.

“I went to David Longmuir at the SFL with my idea in 2009 and he put it to his member clubs,” he said. “It was rejected. David said the reason they gave was they felt the B teams would get all the publicity. I just laughed at that. I said: ‘What publicity are they getting in those divisions at the moment?’ But I didn’t make a big fuss.”

Smith still thinks, over a decade on, that change is desperately required. In fact, he believes it is more important now, when many Ladbrokes Premiership, Championship, League One and League Two outfits are facing uncertain futures due to the coronavirus pandemic and shutdown, than ever before. He is convinced it will have myriad benefits for a game facing a financial crisis.

Crucially, he knows for a fact that influential figures at many of Scotland’s biggest clubs, who have seen the members of their under-20 teams benefit from their involvement in the Tunnock’s Caramel Wafer Cup in the last few years, are of exactly the same opinion.

The suspension of the game in this country and the prospect of Hearts being relegated before the 2019/20 campaign has been completed, have increased the possibility of the current 12-10-10-10 set-up, which has been in place for the last 20 years, being abandoned.

Smith, the former Kilmarnock, Rangers, Brighton, Manchester City and Basel forward and Ibrox director of football, presents a compelling argument for his radical league reconstruction blueprint.

He envisages that part-time outfits like Annan, Elgin City, Peterhead, Queen of the South and Stirling Albion would be able to cut down on the considerable costs they incur travelling the length and breadth of the country to fulfil fixtures between August and May being part of League One North and League One South.

At the same time, he is confident they could significantly increase their attendances and revenue by playing a greater number of local derbies as well as matches against opponents like Aberdeen, Hibernian and St Johnstone.

The former agent is also of the view that the most promising players at Dumbarton, Greenock Morton, Stranraer and Raith Rovers would improve their chances of winning money-spinning moves to their professional rivals by performing well.

“The reasons for it are two fold,” said Smith. “You will have teams playing each other who are nearer each other so that means less cost and probably more derby matches as well.

“But having the reserve teams of the Premiership clubs also invigorates it. That means you get bigger crowds then and you make more money. It would be a big boost for Annan to be playing against a Celtic or a Kilmarnock. Their expenses go down, but their income would increase. You play at their stadiums.

“There is another aspect to it as well. The smaller clubs’ players would be getting tested against top class opposition - which would mean that more of their players are putting themselves in the shop window to be transferred. Premiership teams would be able to see they could play against their players.”

The difficulty that many promising kids at Premiership clubs encounter making the step up into senior football has long been a concern for those charged with their development. Could this be a solution? Smith is adamant it would be.

He feels that Celtic, Hearts, Livingston and Rangers would be able to bring on their youngsters greatly by giving them regular competitive football on a Saturday afternoon in front of sizeable attendances instead of making them play insipid youth matches involving only their contemporaries in lifeless empty stadiums.

“Younger players at the Premiership clubs would also be getting tested against a better standard of opponent and would come on as a result of that as well,” said Smith.

“We have seen a move towards this with the colts teams playing in the Tunnock’s Caramel Wafer Cup. But my idea isn’t for colts teams to go into regionalised leagues it is for reserve teams. I am in favour of boys playing alongside men and against men. That brings them on better, you can tell who is going to make it better.

“They would be playing in front of crowds, not big crowds admittedly, but bigger crowds than they are playing in front of at the moment. They will also be playing on a Saturday. At the moment they are playing on Tuesday mornings and Thursday afternoons and that sort of thing. It would be better for them all round.”

Reserve teams have long been able to compete in the lower tiers of major footballing nations like France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal and Spain. But the likes of Atletico Madrid B, Bayern Munich II, Benfica B, Jong Ajax, Juventus U-23, Monaco B and Real Madrid Castilla are not allowed to join their first teams in the top division. That is exactly the model Smith favours.

“They Premiership clubs don’t win promotion if they top the league,” he said. “They could discount the games against the reserve teams at the end of the season and the team that has the most points goes up.”

The SPFL board are set to meet on Monday to discuss how to move forward with the 2019/20 season. Whether to declare Celtic champions and relegate Hearts based on the Premiership placings on March 13 or try to complete the final fixtures at a later date will be the pressing issues. But expanding the top flight and altering the lower leagues has been mooted in some quarters.

Endorsing the proposals put forward by Smith would be quite a departure in Scotland, where we are not exactly renowned for being trailblazers or visionaries, but he senses there is a growing appetite for change in the academies, on the training pitches and in the boardrooms at many Premiership clubs.

“Anybody I have talked to about this in the higher leagues all think it’s a good idea,” he said. “I have spoken to people at Kilmarnock, St Johnstone. They think the lower league clubs would be better off if it is regional and if top flight clubs were involved. They also know their youngsters would come on. They all think we should be doing it.”

[sjc]

13 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18357931.spfl-urged-introduce-premiership-reserve-teams-regionalised-lower-leagues-radical-shake-up/

Horrific stuff from Gordon Smith

 

 

Gordon Smith is a tax dodging, wig wearing c**t.

He also cost Brighton Hove Albion the FA Cup in 1983. To paraphrase John Motson, "Smith must score, NO!, what a c**t!".....

Edited April 4, 2020 by sjc

[Salvo Montalbano]

That loss isn't for this season. A lot of that loss has been, as has been explained numerous times, because of the continual payoffs, major overhauls to infrastructure, ie Tannadice itself. Those losses were to June last year.

That scoreboard must have cost a hell of a lot of money then because there has been no noticeable improvement in Tannadice other than that. A horrific venue for away fans, even moreso if you happen to be in a wheelchair or visit when there is a bit of frost on the ground.

As for this season, I don't understand why people are so determined to get the next season started so quickly. There are plenty of ways to reduce the number of fixtures for next season if we need to cut it back by a month or two - going back to a knock out format for the League Cup, scrapping the Challenge Cup, scrapping Scottish Cup replays, allowing games to be played (and televised) at the same time as Champions League games, using midweek slots at the start of the season, scrapping the winter break, having European knock out games over one leg, doing something to the Nations League to free up another weekend or two, etc. And if we can't do that easily, then we're going to have a strange hybrid season in 2021/22 with the Winter World Cup anyway so we could fit in 2 seasons into the space we'd normally have three no problem.

[jamamafegan]

The whole “4 OF games a season” TV deal thing is a millstone around Scottish Footballs neck and it’s this that’s standing in the way of proper league development. Get the OF to f**k, it’s quite possible for there to be 6 OF derbies a season including the cups, 7 if there ended up being a replay in the Scottish. It’s absolutely ridiculous, tinpot. We could have a 16 team league no bother, play everyone home and away once (like in Norway). Let BT and Sky compete for the 2 big OF league games and give the loser the first pick of the cup games.

Covid-19 and the wave of Juniors joining the league system has created a unique, bizarre opportunity to freshen things up big time.

The plan that keeps getting suggested, 14 teams with a split and adding championship teams? Get that plan in the fucking bin. It’s an appalling plan.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Is Smith getting QoS and Stranraer mixed up?

[realmadrid]

40 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

The whole “4 OF games a season” TV deal thing is a millstone around Scottish Footballs neck and it’s this that’s standing in the way of proper league development. Get the OF to f**k, it’s quite possible for there to be 6 OF derbies a season including the cups, 7 if there ended up being a replay in the Scottish. It’s absolutely ridiculous, tinpot. We could have a 16 team league no bother, play everyone home and away once (like in Norway). Let BT and Sky compete for the 2 big OF league games and give the loser the first pick of the cup games.

Covid-19 and the wave of Juniors joining the league system has created a unique, bizarre opportunity to freshen things up big time.

The plan that keeps getting suggested, 14 teams with a split and adding championship teams? Get that plan in the fucking bin. It’s an appalling plan.

While we have 5 places in Europe a league of 16 might work but if we go down to 4 places the season would be over for around half of the league by February each year.  The current set up keeps things going for just about everyone until April each year. 

We would also be cutting out 4 home games for each team. 

These could be replaced by a league cup "champions league style" groups of 4 at the start of the season between the top 2 leagues. (If both had 16 teams)

No doubt there would still be fans calling for 18 or 20 teams but there needs to be a decent second level or relegation would be a massive issue for some teams.

[Tannadeechee]

7 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

 

 

That scoreboard must have cost a hell of a lot of money then because there has been no noticeable improvement in Tannadice other than that. A horrific venue for away fans, even moreso if you happen to be in a wheelchair or visit when there is a bit of frost on the ground.

As for this season, I don't understand why people are so determined to get the next season started so quickly. There are plenty of ways to reduce the number of fixtures for next season if we need to cut it back by a month or two - going back to a knock out format for the League Cup, scrapping the Challenge Cup, scrapping Scottish Cup replays, allowing games to be played (and televised) at the same time as Champions League games, using midweek slots at the start of the season, scrapping the winter break, having European knock out games over one leg, doing something to the Nations League to free up another weekend or two, etc. And if we can't do that easily, then we're going to have a strange hybrid season in 2021/22 with the Winter World Cup anyway so we could fit in 2 seasons into the space we'd normally have three no problem.

 

The east stand had had almost nothing done to it years, flaking paint and rust. That was all fixed. There had been hospitality suite being gutted and redone (again had been left for years). A wheel chair lift was being put in for access to an other hospitality suite at George Fox. New POS, through out shop and stadium. That was just some of it, hopefully it continues as previous owners had.done next to nothing for years.

That was all off the point.

We only have 8 games to play. While the split may take a bit longer to sort out, for the rest of us, the league could be over in 4weeks  playing sat/sun & tue/wed.  

For Premiership, as the cup semis only have top league teams, take a weekend slot, play the semis, extend the top league by half a week. Take a weeks break and play the final.

The lower league play offs always happen with a quick tourn around so should finish week after cup final. Whole thing dome in 6 weeks.

 

As you say the next season bin the winter break, allow games at the same time as Euro games. Stopping league cup (although the bulk of that happens at traditional "preseason" anyway),.binning.replays for a season ( hopefully not permanent as I'm all for them). It can be done and I know many folk may not like it but a. Few more midweek games and I'm sure we'd haul it back to a few weeks out. All that depends.of.course.on when we get to start again.

 

It would never happen, but I'd be all for 1 season of 22 and 20. Final placings decide what league you go back to and them revert back to 12-10-10-10. Be interesting to see how close the league would be only playing each other twice.

 

[Coventry Saint]

I know it's just the newspaper talking, and I know we all know this to be the case, but this sentence is fucking disgusting. Get Hearts to f**k, they've been shite. Football's got to be a meritocracy or it's fucked. The idea that their relegation might help to prompt change boils my piss. If you're gonna do it, do it for the right reasons. [/Rant]

 

[DA Baracus]

9 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

The whole “4 OF games a season” TV deal thing is a millstone around Scottish Footballs neck and it’s this that’s standing in the way of proper league development. Get the OF to f**k, it’s quite possible for there to be 6 OF derbies a season including the cups, 7 if there ended up being a replay in the Scottish. It’s absolutely ridiculous, tinpot. We could have a 16 team league no bother, play everyone home and away once (like in Norway). Let BT and Sky compete for the 2 big OF league games and give the loser the first pick of the cup games.

Covid-19 and the wave of Juniors joining the league system has created a unique, bizarre opportunity to freshen things up big time.

The plan that keeps getting suggested, 14 teams with a split and adding championship teams? Get that plan in the fucking bin. It’s an appalling plan.

Absolutely agree about the Sevco/Celtic point. We need to stop making it the main point in discussions and negotiations. In fact we need to stop making it A point in both. We saw for four glorious seasons that Scottish football is fine without their scumbag dickhead 'derby'.

Only thing about 16 teams is the loss of revenue clubs will have from less home games. 

Agree also about getting the 14 team and split bullshit in the bin. A rank idea, despite loads of folk posting it as some sort of original idea they've just came up with.

8 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Is Smith getting QoS and Stranraer mixed up?

c**t barely knows any teams outwith 8 or so in Scotland. A horrible load of selfish, ignorant moronic garbage (his article). 

7 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

I know it's just the newspaper talking, and I know we all know this to be the case, but this sentence is fucking disgusting. Get Hearts to f**k, they've been shite. Football's got to be a meritocracy or it's fucked. The idea that their relegation might help to prompt change boils my piss. If you're gonna do it, do it for the right reasons. [/Rant]

 

Agreed totally (which is why I think all teams top now should be promoted and all bottom relegated), but Scottish football has a long history of trying to manufacture some sort of 1980s ideal. Just see pish like the 10,000 seater rule, Aberdeen escaping relegation because the SPL rejected Falkirk's ground sharing application but then a couple of seasons later accepting Inverness', the lack of playoffs for years, the playoff system between the Premiership and Championship, lack of automatic relegation from League 2, the SPL in general, the attempts there were to make an SPL 2, certain parties trying to get 'colt' teams in to the lower league, the attempts to get Sevco in to the Premiership then the Championship before their unfair queue skipping admission to the 4th tier, the round the Premiership clubs come in at in the Scottish Cup, the seeding in the League Cup that allows 4 teams to skip the group stages, the introduction of 'colt teams' in to the Challenge Cup and so on.

[craigkillie]

45 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

I know it's just the newspaper talking, and I know we all know this to be the case, but this sentence is fucking disgusting. Get Hearts to f**k, they've been shite. Football's got to be a meritocracy or it's fucked. The idea that their relegation might help to prompt change boils my piss. If you're gonna do it, do it for the right reasons. [/Rant]

 

To be fair, I don't think it's because it's Hearts, you could replace any club name in there and the sentence would still hold. Any club relegated (or missing out on promotion) as a result of the season not being completed will have every right to hold a grievance. But both the writing of the article and the opinions of Smith are shite, yes.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

You do realise the only reason 4 teams skip the league cup group stages is because they are the 4 teams in Europe?
Agree with the rest of your post though.

Agreed totally (which is why I think all teams top now should be promoted and all bottom relegated), but Scottish football has a long history of trying to manufacture some sort of 1980s ideal. Just see pish like the 10,000 seater rule, Aberdeen escaping relegation because the SPL rejected Falkirk's ground sharing application but then a couple of seasons later accepting Inverness', the lack of playoffs for years, the playoff system between the Premiership and Championship, lack of automatic relegation from League 2, the SPL in general, the attempts there were to make an SPL 2, certain parties trying to get 'colt' teams in to the lower league, the attempts to get Sevco in to the Premiership then the Championship before their unfair queue skipping admission to the 4th tier, the round the Premiership clubs come in at in the Scottish Cup, the seeding in the League Cup that allows 4 teams to skip the group stages, the introduction of 'colt teams' in to the Challenge Cup and so on.

[DA Baracus]

7 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

You do realise the only reason 4 teams skip the league cup group stages is because they are the 4 teams in Europe?
Agree with the rest of your post though.

Yes, but tough fucking luck to them. Playing 4 games to win the League Cup is nonsense. They could play just 2 games and be pumped out of Europe anyway.

[Coventry Saint]

10 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

They could play just 2 games and be pumped out of Europe anyway.

I'd be keen to hear about any recent examples of this.

[DA Baracus]

Just now, Coventry Saint said:

I'd be keen to hear about any recent examples of this.

Not sure if there are but it is a possibility. Lose your first tie and that's it.

[Coventry Saint]

2 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Not sure if there are but it is a possibility. Lose your first tie and that's it.

S'ok, I was having a pop at Killie 

[Illgresi]

On 17/03/2020 at 19:08, tree house tam said:

f**k off with a bigger league,  those championship teams are dross and should be kept at arms length away from the elite.

Ironic, given that St. Johnstone are essentially a Championship diddy club, kept from relegation by the fact that there are many other Championship diddy clubs that are slightly worse than them.

[Munoz]

11 minutes ago, Illgresi said:

Ironic, given that St. Johnstone are essentially a Championship diddy club, kept from relegation by the fact that there are many other Championship diddy clubs that are slightly worse than them.

Nail on the head. 

[DA Baracus]

Just now, Coventry Saint said:

S'ok, I was having a pop at Killie 

Ah! Forgot about that!

[DA Baracus]

25 minutes ago, Illgresi said:

Ironic, given that St. Johnstone are essentially a Championship diddy club, kept from relegation by the fact that there are many other Championship diddy clubs that are slightly worse than them.

Not true though.

11 years in the top league, multiple top 6 finishes, multiple European games and a Scottish Cup show that they are a top league club.

I imagine the only argument against that is about crowd size. A nonsense moron argument.