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Granny Danger

Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

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1 minute ago, 101 said:

Presumably pre contract have to be re written as do the existing contracts, if the English premiership are furlonging all their staff then I assume Scottish clubs are doing the same who is going to be able to do this work? 

This might be the most ridiculous and petty point I’ve seen raised in this topic yet.

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Just now, Granny Danger said:

I don’t think a player on a contract would be classed as self-employed, I think they would still be employees of the club.  There are probably others on here with a greater knowledge of this than me who could clarify if they’ve not already done so.

 

Well if that's the case they would be furloughed shirley?

Which brings me back to my original point, if the clubs are not spending any money at this time, why the desperate need for the prize money?

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53 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

 

Would be interested in who is kicking up a fuss other than Thistle and Dundee, and why.

Considering United, Alloa and Queens are obvious choices to vote for confirming the current standings, and Lachlan Cameron unsurprisingly aiming to back the option which gets it right up Ian McCall, it doesn’t leave a lot of other (logical) options.

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Just now, johnnydun said:

Well if that's the case they would be furloughed shirley?

Which brings me back to my original point, if the clubs are not spending any money at this time, why the desperate need for the prize money?

Just had a wee look at the government website and it seems like I’m talking bollocks, employees on fixed contracts can be covered.  The £2,500 per month maximum might be an issue for some clubs with certain staff (not just players) and, as I said, there will be other ongoing costs which will be difficult, if not impossible, to avoid.

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5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Just had a wee look at the government website and it seems like I’m talking bollocks, employees on fixed contracts can be covered.  The £2,500 per month maximum might be an issue for some clubs with certain staff (not just players) and, as I said, there will be other ongoing costs which will be difficult, if not impossible, to avoid.

Like what on going costs?

Edit: not being cunty, genuine question.

Edited by johnnydun

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Finish this season. If it delays next season who cares make it shorter, easy enough to do.

This wont happen though because SPFL only cares about the new improved Sky TV deal next season and having 4 old firm games. Nothing can can get in the way of this.

As usual it's all about the bigots!

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For a start, the lower leagues could be voted on/decided at the same time as the top flight. That would be a more consistent start to proceedings than this nonsense.
The top flight is distinct for three reasons.

1) UEFA have asked top flight leagues to hang fire on making a decision for now. No such issue applies to lower leagues.

2) The overwhelming majority of the SPFL's income, which pays for the all-important prize money for the lower league clubs, comes from the Premiership's TV and sponsorship deals. Therefore there is more financial pressure involved in trying to get the remaining Premiership games played.

3) The Premiership players are generally on higher wages than the lower league clubs and therefore cannot as easily pay player wages using the furlough scheme. Therefore there is more financial incentive for these clubs to try to get playing again if they can.

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1 hour ago, Ad Lib said:

If you fail to anticipate a scenario such as this you have a duty to produce a solution that Clubs would have agreed to if proposed before a season had started and therefore before they knew whether they stood to benefit from it.

It is blatantly clear that more than two Championship clubs would not have agreed to a proposal such as this, given its implications for the positions they might have anticipated they would be at risk of finishing in.

I don't get your logic here.

I honestly think that had a proposal been made last July, that said once more than half the games have been completed, placings on a points per game basis would stand if the season was for some reason halted, then I'd genuinely think every club would have signed up to it.

I'm not pretending that that's the same thing as asking them to sign up to it in the following April, but I don't think this proposal fails your test about whether or not it would have been acceptable before any balls got kicked.

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10 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

Would be interested in who is kicking up a fuss other than Thistle and Dundee, and why.

Considering United, Alloa and Queens are obvious choices to vote for confirming the current standings, and Lachlan Cameron unsurprisingly aiming to back the option which gets it right up Ian McCall, it doesn’t leave a lot of other (logical) options.

Caley could be against it if they think the had a very small chance at the title (which I don’t think was ever happening), or even just because it denies them a play-off place.

After that you could also have Dunfermline, Arbroath and maybe even Morton pissed off that they can’t have a go at the play-offs.

It would be nice if clubs approached this more on the basis of what’s the “right” thing to do (which personally I think is to give every chance to finishing the season when possible) rather than just what it means for them in terms of promotion or relegation. But that’s clearly not going to happen for the overwhelming majority.

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5 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Like what on going costs?

Edit: not being cunty, genuine question.

Rent and/or other property costs, repayment/servicing of loans, leasing charges, insurance, maintenance costs, HLP (heat, light and power), to name a few.  It may be possible to delay or reschedule some of these but I imagine every club will have some fixed costs that they will not be able to defer.

Also if you have some senior players, manager, assistant manager, plus admin staff whose wages will not be covered by £2,500 per month then unless they take a cut or deferral in wages then the club will need to cover that too.

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Finish this season. If it delays next season who cares make it shorter, easy enough to do.

This wont happen though because SPFL only cares about the new improved Sky TV deal next season and having 4 old firm games. Nothing can can get in the way of this.

As usual it's all about the bigots!





I said a few comments back that is what this all about.

They want the new contract underway and they don’t want anything getting in the way such as an unfinished season.

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1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

The top flight is distinct for three reasons.

1) UEFA have asked top flight leagues to hang fire on making a decision for now. No such issue applies to lower leagues.

2) The overwhelming majority of the SPFL's income, which pays for the all-important prize money for the lower league clubs, comes from the Premiership's TV and sponsorship deals. Therefore there is more financial pressure involved in trying to get the remaining Premiership games played.

3) The Premiership players are generally on higher wages than the lower league clubs and therefore cannot as easily pay player wages using the furlough scheme. Therefore there is more financial incentive for these clubs to try to get playing again if they can.

As valid as these reasons may be in highlighting the distinction between top flight and the leagues below, it still doesn’t explain why we’re rushing into a resolution for lower leagues when football is nowhere near resuming anyway and the leagues weren’t due to finish for at least a month.

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13 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Rent and/or other property costs, repayment/servicing of loans, leasing charges, insurance, maintenance costs, HLP (heat, light and power), to name a few.  It may be possible to delay or reschedule some of these but I imagine every club will have some fixed costs that they will not be able to defer.

Also if you have some senior players, manager, assistant manager, plus admin staff whose wages will not be covered by £2,500 per month then unless they take a cut or deferral in wages then the club will need to cover that too.

The higher paid players and management are in the same boat as every other worker in the country so taking a max of £2500 is just something they don't have a choice in.

HLP will be at a minimum cost right now as will maintenance.

Commercial tenants are protected for at least 3 months if they cannot afford to pay rent during the corona virus.

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Out of interest what would you support and what would Dundee likely support?
Personally I think we should abstain.

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Does anyone reckon they've come up with a plan B if this proposal doesn't get voted through, answer would be probably not i'd presume and aferwards squabbling would be a great laugh.

They'd probably blackmail the clubs in the national papers for a week and then do a re-vote hoping for the right outcome.

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If clubs are needing an early payout (although I still can't see why), give them the amount now, they would get in their mathematically lowest possible finishing position.

Edited by johnnydun

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I'm still astonished that this has never been seen as a possibility before. Not just coronavirus, but if a league needed cut short or mass postponement due to anything else.

World wars for example. You think someone would have came up with something then to deal with these situations.

Suppose there is a lot more at stake now, but as a starting point or if an unpopular decision has to be made they can blame the rule book.

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7 hours ago, johnnydun said:

The higher paid players and management are in the same boat as every other worker in the country so taking a max of £2500 is just something they don't have a choice in.

They could say "no thanks, I don't want to be furloughed". You can't force someone to participate.

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8 hours ago, eez-eh said:

Why is completing the league not an option? It can be delayed by however many weeks or months is necessary. It’s a completely knee-jerk reaction doing this when we’re only 2 weeks into a lockdown, especially after UEFA’s statement yesterday and FIFA announcing they’ll be moving the registration windows for players.

And before anyone comes back talking about prize money, ending the season now would likely forgo the remaining TV and sponsorship payments (why would they pay up for games that never happened?), so any prize money paid out off the back of calling the season as it is would be heavily diluted. 

I'm sure I heard on Sportsound at the weekend that the TV companies have already paid up. 

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8 hours ago, johnnydun said:

I don't see that the rush for prize money is a major factor considering most clubs are furloughing staff anyway.

I can only go based on what my boss has told me, but the furlough scheme isnt money for nothing.

Once this is over the government is expecting you to pay the money back.

Edited by RandomGuy.

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