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Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

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League 1 clubs apparently had a zoom meeting yesterday with the SFA about fans returning to grounds. Have championship clubs had a similar meeting ?
Got a link to this at all?

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20 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

League 1 clubs apparently had a zoom meeting yesterday with the SFA about fans returning to grounds. Have championship clubs had a similar meeting ?

Good to hear they’re at least being proactive about getting fans back. Crazy that 300 folk can go and sit in a bingo hall but the same amount might not be able to go to lower league games in the fresh air 🙄

Edited by Thereisalight..

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https://www.musselburgh-racecourse.co.uk/news-story/musselburgh-awaits-green-light-for-pilot-race-day-with-spectators

Musselburgh Racecourse had hoped to have a limited number of spectators on 26 August, but were told that the SG team didn't have enough time to review their proposal.  A further proposal for spectators this Sunday (5/9) has been knocked back.  The fact that the SG team can't get comfortable with 500 people in the wide open spaces of Musselburgh Racecourse is a concern, as 500 there allows for more social distancing than 500 at Palmerston and other grounds eg Gayfield.   At the same time I can buy a ticket for Doncaster Races for their meeting next week- I believe the crowd limit is 5,000.

https://tickets.doncaster-racecourse.co.uk/shop/cart.pl?myaction=choose_package&event_id=9999000053255382

I know a few folk who have gone to non-league games in the North of England over the last few days, where the crowd is limited to 300, with no requirement for players to be tested.  I am sure some of our clubs would like the same flexibility in the run up to the start of the Betfred Cup, with a small crowd for a friendly giving the club a chance to test procedures for the Betfred games.  I suspect that the Joint Response Group are too influenced by the demands of the bigger clubs  (2 in particular), so options for the diddies to have a crack at small crowds may be be too far down the wish list. 

The announcement in the link below is encouraging.  However, while it doesn't use the phrase 'behind closed doors' presumably that spectators are not allowed (yet).

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/grassroots-football-update-3-september-covid-19/

My cynical conclusion is that we will suffer from an unhelpful combination of a government that is very conservative in relation to sporting crowds (in particular football) and a football establishment controlled by people that have very little interest in smaller clubs within the league structure.  However, happy to be proved wrong!!

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7 hours ago, Parttimesupporter said:

https://www.musselburgh-racecourse.co.uk/news-story/musselburgh-awaits-green-light-for-pilot-race-day-with-spectators

Musselburgh Racecourse had hoped to have a limited number of spectators on 26 August, but were told that the SG team didn't have enough time to review their proposal.  A further proposal for spectators this Sunday (5/9) has been knocked back.  The fact that the SG team can't get comfortable with 500 people in the wide open spaces of Musselburgh Racecourse is a concern, as 500 there allows for more social distancing than 500 at Palmerston and other grounds eg Gayfield.   At the same time I can buy a ticket for Doncaster Races for their meeting next week- I believe the crowd limit is 5,000.

https://tickets.doncaster-racecourse.co.uk/shop/cart.pl?myaction=choose_package&event_id=9999000053255382

I know a few folk who have gone to non-league games in the North of England over the last few days, where the crowd is limited to 300, with no requirement for players to be tested.  I am sure some of our clubs would like the same flexibility in the run up to the start of the Betfred Cup, with a small crowd for a friendly giving the club a chance to test procedures for the Betfred games.  I suspect that the Joint Response Group are too influenced by the demands of the bigger clubs  (2 in particular), so options for the diddies to have a crack at small crowds may be be too far down the wish list. 

The announcement in the link below is encouraging.  However, while it doesn't use the phrase 'behind closed doors' presumably that spectators are not allowed (yet).

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/grassroots-football-update-3-september-covid-19/

My cynical conclusion is that we will suffer from an unhelpful combination of a government that is very conservative in relation to sporting crowds (in particular football) and a football establishment controlled by people that have very little interest in smaller clubs within the league structure.  However, happy to be proved wrong!!

I believe it’s down to the SG have already got their plans in place around what sports are being used for testing ( teams are asking to be included at earlier dates , but I believe sticking to their proposed plans means testing will be  measured more accurately)  , Rugby was last week and football was scheduled for 14th September ( now likely going to be 12th ) , it’s being totally different down South with crowds already been trialled at Snooker and  Footballl , with another couple of teams being trialled in the next 2 weeks , 

Edited by Robbo63

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9 hours ago, Parttimesupporter said:

I am sure some of our clubs would like the same flexibility in the run up to the start of the Betfred Cup, with a small crowd for a friendly giving the club a chance to test procedures for the Betfred games.  I suspect that the Joint Response Group are too influenced by the demands of the bigger clubs  (2 in particular), so options for the diddies to have a crack at small crowds may be be too far down the wish list.

Lower league clubs haven't really started playing friendlies yet, probably mainly because they'll have to start regular testing as soon as they do. The window for "test events" should in theory only last for another 10 days, because after that there should be limited crowds allowed based on the Scottish government's roadmap.

So I suspect the main reason the JRG are focusing on the Premiership games is because those are literally the only games happening in the relevant period.

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12 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Lower league clubs haven't really started playing friendlies yet, probably mainly because they'll have to start regular testing as soon as they do. The window for "test events" should in theory only last for another 10 days, because after that there should be limited crowds allowed based on the Scottish government's roadmap.

So I suspect the main reason the JRG are focusing on the Premiership games is because those are literally the only games happening in the relevant period.

To be honest I'm struggling with this. 

I think the Scottish rules mean that games are out for all clubs who are not testing (SPFL and non-SPFL) until 12/9.   My original post noted that the rules are not so strict in England, as I know quite a few folk who have been to games there in the last few days.  

The document suggests that anyone can play from 12/9 behind closed doors, and testing isn't required.  However, like you I was under the impression that testing is required for all SPFL clubs for the foreseeable future. 

The 'test events' will hopefully lead to the introduction of limited crowds.  For the sake of argument let's say that crowds of 300 are allowed, and consider the position of Edinburgh City (SPFL) and Spartans (non-SPFL) who share the same facilities.  Let's say each team would like to play a game against another club on or after12/9.  Which scenario is correct?

A - Both can play with a crowd up to 300 but their players have to test.  My reading of the protocols is that Spartans won't need to test when they start playing.  

B - City can play with a crowd up to 300 but have to test.  Spartans can play with a crowd up to 300 but don't have to test as they are not subject to SPFL testing requirements.  This can't be right.

C - City can play with a crowd up to 300 but have to test.  Spartans can play but have to do so behind closed doors due to the lack of testing.  This would be an odd outcome as there is no obvious lncrease in risk with a small socially distanced crowd where the players have not been tested.  However, I think this is probably where we end up.

D - Both can play with a crowd up to 300 but testing is not required.  This doesn't seem likely as my understanding is that SPFL clubs are still required to test.

Hopefully I am being a bit thick/pissed tonight, and apologies if this has been dealt with in another thread which I haven't seen.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/6984/scottish-fa-phase-35-adults-matchday-protocol.pdf

 

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As it stood prior to this most recent release, it was my understanding that the following was true:

1) Premiership clubs were allowed to play and train as "normal", but had to test regularly.

2) Other SPFL clubs could train as "normal" without testing, but if they wanted to play matches then they had to test regularly.

3) Clubs outside the SPFL could train, but with some restrictions, and were not allowed to play matches.


Like you, I am slightly unclear as to how the latest update has changed things. It definitely now appears to be the case that as of the 12th September clubs outside the SPFL can train and play without testing. However, it is not clear whether testing is still necessary for SPFL clubs at this stage - you would have expected this to be announced if it was the case, but as you say it would seem weird for Edinburgh City to have to test but not Spartans. I could understand a full-time/part-time distinction since the full-time players will spend more time together.

It would also be weird for crowds to be allowed at one club but not the other. My view on that is that limited crowds are supposed to be permitted on the 14th September, and I don't see any reason why that shouldn't apply to all clubs as long as strict criteria are in place to ensure compliance with track and trace, social distancing etc. Each club should essentially be judged on a case by case basis, dependent on their facilities. That might mean that some clubs still aren't allowed crowds, but hopefully most would be. However, the SFA protocol above can't include anything like that until it is confirmed by the Scottish Government, and presumably the practicalities of that are still being worked through.

Edited by craigkillie

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7 hours ago, craigkillie said:

As it stood prior to this most recent release, it was my understanding that the following was true:

1) Premiership clubs were allowed to play and train as "normal", but had to test regularly.

2) Other SPFL clubs could train as "normal" without testing, but if they wanted to play matches then they had to test regularly.

3) Clubs outside the SPFL could train, but with some restrictions, and were not allowed to play matches.


Like you, I am slightly unclear as to how the latest updated has changed things. It definitely now appears to be the case that as of the 12th September clubs outside the SPFL can train and play without testing. However, it is not clear whether testing is still necessary for SPFL clubs at this stage - you would have expected this to be announced if it was the case, but as you say it would seem weird for Edinburgh City to have to test but not Spartans. I could understand a full-time/part-time distinction since the full-time players will spend more time together.

It would also be weird for crowds to be allowed at one club but not the other. My view on that is that limited crowds are supposed to be permitted on the 14th September, and I don't see any reason why that shouldn't apply to all clubs as long as strict criteria are in place to ensure compliance with track and trace, social distancing etc. Each club should essentially be judged on a case by case basis, dependent on their facilities. That might mean that some clubs still aren't allowed crowds, but hopefully most would be. However, the SFA protocol above can't include anything like that until it is confirmed by the Scottish Government, and presumably the practicalities of that are still being worked through.

Thanks.  I have a mate who used to be involved with City.  Will ask if he knows and will report back!

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1 hour ago, Parttimesupporter said:

Thanks.  I have a mate who used to be involved with City.  Will ask if he knows and will report back!

He is equally puzzled!  I guess we will know by this time next week at the latest.....

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19 hours ago, craigkillie said:

It would also be weird for crowds to be allowed at one club but not the other. My view on that is that limited crowds are supposed to be permitted on the 14th September, and I don't see any reason why that shouldn't apply to all clubs as long as strict criteria are in place to ensure compliance with track and trace, social distancing etc. Each club should essentially be judged on a case by case basis, dependent on their facilities. That might mean that some clubs still aren't allowed crowds, but hopefully most would be. However, the SFA protocol above can't include anything like that until it is confirmed by the Scottish Government, and presumably the practicalities of that are still being worked through.

It is rather perplexing that the guidance from both the SFA update and the Return to Play Hub clearly refer to no spectators, with a specific exception for small numbers of parents of youth players, at matches effective 12/9. Given the belief and pronouncements that some form of spectators might be possible post 14/9, it seems very unusual to issue this guidance without addressing that factor unless they aren’t planning on allowing spectators quickly. The fact it was issued in this manner suggests to me that they are not intending to allow spectators at the first possible date and will instead follow some convoluted process for testing varying amounts of spectators in venues. The mention in the guidance with regards to the spectators causing footfall issues at so called chock points indicates a very conservative approach is likely being taken. It is entirely possible that the Aberdeen and Celtic fiascos have caused the SFA to become unduly paranoid to avoid any sanction from the SG. There is also likely a judgment by the SFA and SPFL that any reverse in the rollout of spectators being allowed would likely cause serious financial damages, so they have to get it right, first time.

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It does beg the question of club commentary. Will clubs be offering commentary along with the stream, or perhaps as an option with the stream for people to take or leave, possibly for a small fee? Streaming doesn’t replace in person for the immersion in the game, but it would certainly broaden appeal...if it is widely available. Therein lies the question of the so called 21st Century game, is the future smaller live crowds and how could that work?

Having to support small crowds would be a money savings, but I doubt the streaming revenue would initially equal the loses in revenue. There would also be the point that this model would probably result in small facilities, or lower capacity in current facilities as teams spend where the revenue is.

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1 hour ago, Smokie_Bacon_crisps said:

Not really news, though. Its been common knowledge that clubs will be streaming games 

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

It does beg the question of club commentary. Will clubs be offering commentary along with the stream, or perhaps as an option with the stream for people to take or leave, possibly for a small fee? Streaming doesn’t replace in person for the immersion in the game, but it would certainly broaden appeal...if it is widely available. Therein lies the question of the so called 21st Century game, is the future smaller live crowds and how could that work?

Having to support small crowds would be a money savings, but I doubt the streaming revenue would initially equal the loses in revenue. There would also be the point that this model would probably result in small facilities, or lower capacity in current facilities as teams spend where the revenue is.

I would imagine clubs will at least try and offer commentary, if they can find people to do it and it turns out to be technically possible. I cant see it being "an extra". If you're going to the trouble of setting it up why give people the option to pay less and not have it?

Lets hope that isnt the future. We've seen the difference watching games on tv without crowds makes. Lower crowds means less atmosphere, which makes a less attractive streaming product. Its a vicious downward spiral.

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16 hours ago, TxRover said:

It does beg the question of club commentary. Will clubs be offering commentary along with the stream, or perhaps as an option with the stream for people to take or leave, possibly for a small fee? Streaming doesn’t replace in person for the immersion in the game, but it would certainly broaden appeal...if it is widely available. Therein lies the question of the so called 21st Century game, is the future smaller live crowds and how could that work?

Having to support small crowds would be a money savings, but I doubt the streaming revenue would initially equal the loses in revenue. There would also be the point that this model would probably result in small facilities, or lower capacity in current facilities as teams spend where the revenue is.

Morton have appointed someone and part of his remit will be commentary of the streams.

Plenty of Morton fans would happily pay extra to not have to listen to Gerry McDade though.

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There seems to be lots of examples on their Youtube Page

https://www.youtube.com/c/PixellotLtd/videos

There is a U18 international match and it seems to follow the game really smoothly 

 

8 hours ago, TxRover said:

So, as a matter of interest, has anyone actually viewed a Pixellot broadcast? Thoughts and comments.

 

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30 minutes ago, Smokie_Bacon_crisps said:

There seems to be lots of examples on their Youtube Page

https://www.youtube.com/c/PixellotLtd/videos

There is a U18 international match and it seems to follow the game really smoothly 

 

 

Looks decent quality but will we be able to have commentary with it?

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