Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[Nowhereman]

That’s fine for fans like you and me who already have an affiliation to a team.

We’re in this forum because we support a wee team, and as such we more than likely support them because they are our local team, our dads/grandads dragged us along when we were young, we went with our mates or any combination of the above.

Where is the incentive for a 6/7 year old to start following Dumbarton if he/she is not being taken to the games?
Watching a Premier league or La liga game would surely be much more appealing to a fan who has not yet developed an affiliation to a shitey wee Scottish team?

We must not make it easier for people who are able to attend games to see them without attending in person or we’ll lose the next generation of fans and strangle the smaller clubs over the next 30-40 years.

And I say this as someone who would love to be able to watch Raith on a Saturday afternoon on my phone as work and family life make it very difficult to attend games even though I live just a few miles from San Starko.

Absolutely this. If a youngster is introduced to a Dumbarton game as a tv experience at the same time as being introduced to a Barcelona game as a tv experience which one is going to be more attractive? Going to the actual match is the main thing that the lower leagues have going for them and we have to retain that difference otherwise youngsters will just see it all as the same thing and choose the more glamorous side of it

[TxRover]

7 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

Absolutely this. If a youngster is introduced to a Dumbarton game as a tv experience at the same time as being introduced to a Barcelona game as a tv experience which one is going to be more attractive? Going to the actual match is the main thing that the lower leagues have going for them and we have to retain that difference otherwise youngsters will just see it all as the same thing and choose the more glamorous side of it

 

Not buying this. A youth introduced to football played at the highest level could easily be interested enough to see attending a game played by local blokes as something he/she might want to do. Football is a lot like golf, lots of frustration and annoyance, and the occasional transformative shot. Athletico versus Barca  might be a good looking game, but even Peterhead versus Dumbarton is likely to offer a little something now and then. The advantage of being the game down the road, and then providing an entertaining spectacle, is what Scottish Football is about. It is possible to be a supporter of a big club and still a fan of the local eleven, and even streaming games won’t take away the ability to attend a game.

[Paisley Ton]

My experience of taking the kids from age 7-10 YO was that they enjoyed the trip, got a pie/burger and coke and might watch the game for 30 minutes. 

The balance of game v goodies increased as they got older.

Solution , get them to watch the streamed game and get the goodies as bate.

I also feel that streamed games will be much less attractive at 3.00 on a Saturday so the Championship should consider Friday night or Sunday night and also avoid European (CL and EL ) TV  game nights.

[Skyline Drifter]

12 minutes ago, Paisley Ton said:

My experience of taking the kids from age 7-10 YO was that they enjoyed the trip, got a pie/burger and coke and might watch the game for 30 minutes. 

The balance of game v goodies increased as they got older.

Solution , get them to watch the streamed game and get the goodies as bate.

I also feel that streamed games will be much less attractive at 3.00 on a Saturday so the Championship should consider Friday night or Sunday night and also avoid European (CL and EL ) TV  game nights.

Wait, you're advocating we move games away from what's best for the attending supporter to make them better available for a perceived future tv audience? Seriously?

There's already live tv matches every night of the week as it is so live streaming (which is still actually not allowed anyway except in Covid times) would have a hard job finding a slot that's not going to have more attractive tv viewing in it.

[itzdrk]

On 09/08/2020 at 09:22, TheScarf said:

The games should be accessible to all so domestic streaming should be permanent now imo. If clubs can afford if of course. 
 

There’s fans of all clubs all over the UK who obviously can’t attend games so why not have a service where they can watch their team every week?

I get clubs want you in the stadium so you might nip into the shop, buy some food or a half time draw ticket.  But there are games that people can't or simply won't travel to, or (very very rarely) a sold out away end and if the game hasn't been picked up by a broadcaster then tough. 

Seems to me the sensible thing ongoing is to allow clubs to broadcast their midweek games and also in the unlikely event that the away end is sold out (guess that only works at some, not all clubs due to still having PATG). 

[itzdrk]

On 09/08/2020 at 19:26, parsforlife said:

We are also piss poor at embracing technology, attending away games is one of the only times in my day to day life where I need to make a deliberate effort to have a cash on me.  I can do just about everything with card and whilst that’s possible at some grounds by going into the ticket office but a contactless entry system is quite easy to achieve from a tech point of view and yet nobody has implemented such a system.  

Ayr had this all of last season. 

[itzdrk]

On 10/08/2020 at 23:26, stevoraith said:

 

You mis-understood I think, my point was that they wouldn’t begin to support a Scottish lower league team because they’d choose to watch something more glamorous at 3pm on a Saturday and never build an affiliation to their local team.

I agree with a lot of your points though, I’d pay to stream a game that I can’t attend due to work or family commitments so the club would earn more from people in my position, and yes, the core support won’t chose to stream rather than attend.

But that’s because we all know how good it feels to attend a game..... which brings me neatly back to my main point, a lot of impressionable youngsters won’t get that first hit that hooks them and keeps them following lower league toilet football, instead they’ll be lost to being armchair Man City or Real Madrid fans.

 

I think from this and your other posts you are making out that young children are going to be forced to watch streams of lower league football rather than attend a live match? 

[Homer Thompson]

57 minutes ago, itzdrk said:

Ayr had this all of last season. 

Only by buying online in advance or going to a ticket office, which you can do at several other clubs too. I assume he meant contactless entry at the turnstile. The only place Ive seen do that is Clyde.

To be honest, though, Im not sure what difference it makes. If you can pay by card at a ticket office is there really any benefit to being able to walk up to the turnstile and pay by card?

[itzdrk]

8 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Only by buying online in advance or going to a ticket office, which you can do at several other clubs too. I assume he meant contactless entry at the turnstile. The only place Ive seen do that is Clyde.

To be honest, though, Im not sure what difference it makes. If you can pay by card at a ticket office is there really any benefit to being able to walk up to the turnstile and pay by card?

If you buy in advance and scan your QR code that is contactless at the turnstile. 

[Finlay21]

25 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Only by buying online in advance or going to a ticket office, which you can do at several other clubs too. I assume he meant contactless entry at the turnstile. The only place Ive seen do that is Clyde.

To be honest, though, Im not sure what difference it makes. If you can pay by card at a ticket office is there really any benefit to being able to walk up to the turnstile and pay by card?

No need to attend ticket office , buy online and ticket is sent electronically to your phone , scan your phone at gate or old fashioned way print at home and take your home printed ticket to gate , if you decide last minute to go to game , go online and purchase as walking  up to gates , takes less than 2 minutes 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Robbo63

[Homer Thompson]

25 minutes ago, itzdrk said:

If you buy in advance and scan your QR code that is contactless at the turnstile. 

 

10 minutes ago, Robbo63 said:

No need to attend ticket office , buy online and ticket is sent electronically to your phone , scan your phone at gate or old fashioned way print at home and take your home printed ticket to gate , if you decide last minute to go to game , go online and purchase as walking  up to gates , takes less than 2 minutes 

I know all of this, I said as much in my post.

Both require some form of prior knowledge, though. Again, I can only assume what parsforlife meant but Im pretty sure hes talking about walking up to the turnstile without any cash and paying by card at the turnstile.

As I said, Ive done this at Clyde but Im not aware of anyone else who does it. Again, as I said, Im not sure what difference it really makes when compared to buying online or from a ticket office.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Only by buying online in advance or going to a ticket office, which you can do at several other clubs too. I assume he meant contactless entry at the turnstile. The only place Ive seen do that is Clyde.

To be honest, though, Im not sure what difference it makes. If you can pay by card at a ticket office is there really any benefit to being able to walk up to the turnstile and pay by card?

For the record, contact less entry is different to contact less payment.

If you had said contact less payment as you assert I expect the responses would have been very different. 

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

 

I know all of this, I said as much in my post.

Both require some form of prior knowledge, though. Again, I can only assume what parsforlife meant but Im pretty sure hes talking about walking up to the turnstile without any cash and paying by card at the turnstile.

As I said, Ive done this at Clyde but Im not aware of anyone else who does it. Again, as I said, Im not sure what difference it really makes when compared to buying online or from a ticket office.

Yeah, this. It's perfectly clear he meant some sort of contactless payment at a turnstile but I'm bemused as to how that would help. It's only going to delay the process of entering the stadium for those who already have their ticket either on a physical piece of card or on their phone a la Ayr United. If everybody already has their ticket when they reach the turnstile then they walk up, scan the ticket / or give it to an attendant, then get let in. 10 second process. If we're stood there while the guy in front tries to select what kind of ticket he wants to pay for or indeed multiple tickets if he's got others with him he's paying for, and pays for it then there's just going to be an irritating queue form for everyone else with advance bought tickets and season tickets. Not much better than taking cash at the turnstiles that.

Most clubs allow for some form of contactless payment on match day (granted only one of the three ticket offices at Palmerston can do it). Go to ticket office, buy your ticket. pay for it contactless, take it to the turnstile. Only people queuing are those who need to.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[Skyline Drifter]

3 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

For the record, contact less entry is different to contact less payment.

If you had said contact less payment as you assert I expect the responses would have been very different. 

Granted, but as the OP was talking about using his card and not carrying cash I think we can safely presume he was actually referring to contactless payment.

[Nowhereman]

14 hours ago, TxRover said:

Not buying this. A youth introduced to football played at the highest level could easily be interested enough to see attending a game played by local blokes as something he/she might want to do. Football is a lot like golf, lots of frustration and annoyance, and the occasional transformative shot. Athletico versus Barca  might be a good looking game, but even Peterhead versus Dumbarton is likely to offer a little something now and then. The advantage of being the game down the road, and then providing an entertaining spectacle, is what Scottish Football is about. It is possible to be a supporter of a big club and still a fan of the local eleven, and even streaming games won’t take away the ability to attend a game.

Streaming wont take away the ability to attend but it means that you then have the option of watching it on tv. So a youngster will see the Spanish league and Scottish league one through the same eyes. If it isn't streamed they will have to attend and hopefully the live experience will win out

[parsforlife]

27 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Granted, but as the OP was talking about using his card and not carrying cash I think we can safely presume he was actually referring to contactless payment.

Correct, I didn’t think that was difficult tbh.  Contactless entry has been the done thing at some grounds for a long time. 

Since everyone seems to be guessing what I mean I’ll try a bit more detail.   I’m basically thinking of something similar to the London transport system.  Where I can walk up to the turnstile put my card by the reader and get in.  There’s no selecting your ticket type, going online, going to the ticket office etc.  I know none of these things a particularly difficult,  but anything that makes things easier for the fan the better.  These systems can accept season tickets, or a pre-loaded card etc

[Skyline Drifter]

3 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Correct, I didn’t think that was difficult tbh.  Contactless entry has been the done thing at some grounds for a long time. 

Since everyone seems to be guessing what I mean I’ll try a bit more detail.   I’m basically thinking of something similar to the London transport system.  Where I can walk up to the turnstile put my card by the reader and get in.  There’s no selecting your ticket type, going online, going to the ticket office etc.  I know none of these things a particularly difficult,  but anything that makes things easier for the fan the better.  These systems can accept season tickets, or a pre-loaded card etc

So, speaking as someone who has never used the London transport system, how does it know what you want and what to charge you? Or is it a flat price for all?

I'm really not clear on how you could simply walk up to a turnstile at a Scottish football ground and wave a contactless payment card at it and get in? How would you confirm adult / OAP / child, family, etc. Or are you only advocating using it for full paying adults and everyone else would have to deal with it differently?

[Homer Thompson]

  

47 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

For the record, contact less entry is different to contact less payment.

If you had said contact less payment as you assert I expect the responses would have been very different. 

Fair point. It was pretty obvious what was being talked about though.

3 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Correct, I didn’t think that was difficult tbh.  Contactless entry has been the done thing at some grounds for a long time. 

Since everyone seems to be guessing what I mean I’ll try a bit more detail.   I’m basically thinking of something similar to the London transport system.  Where I can walk up to the turnstile put my card by the reader and get in.  There’s no selecting your ticket type, going online, going to the ticket office etc.  I know none of these things a particularly difficult,  but anything that makes things easier for the fan the better.  These systems can accept season tickets, or a pre-loaded card etc

As far as I know, any of the online ticket systems already being used support season tickets. They're a seperate issue, though if you're talking about making it easy for walk-ups.

1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

So, speaking as someone who has never used the London transport system, how does it know what you want and what to charge you? Or is it a flat price for all?

I'm really not clear on how you could simply walk up to a turnstile at a Scottish football ground and wave a contactless payment card at it and get in? How would you confirm adult / OAP / child, family, etc. Or are you only advocating using it for full paying adults and everyone else would have to deal with it differently?

Grounds have traditionally had seperate gates for adults and concessions. As you say, the contactless payment could be used at an adult gate. There are other ways you could deal with it - having a "fast track" gate for season ticket holders and those that have pre-purchased for example, to help avoid queues. I also think theres a potential for unmanned ticket booths for selling adult tickets, if you have a system to scan tickets at the turnstile to support them.

Obviously, a big problem is having enough turnstiles to be able to split entry like that.

[Skyline Drifter]

11 minutes ago, Mr X said:

 Grounds have traditionally had seperate gates for adults and concessions. As you say, the contactless payment could be used at an adult gate. There are other ways you could deal with it - having a "fast track" gate for season ticket holders and those that have pre-purchased for example, to help avoid queues. I also think theres a potential for unmanned ticket booths for selling adult tickets, if you have a system to scan tickets at the turnstile to support them.

Obviously, a big problem is having enough turnstiles to be able to split entry like that.

Well yes, obviously. That's possible potentially at Celtic Park or Hampden with dozens of entry points to each stand. It doesn't really work at 90% of grounds though where there will be 2 or 3 turnstiles to enter one section of the ground.

The old traditional separate turnstile approach dates to the days when you had one stand and the rest was terrace and there were probably two prices, Adult and Child. It doesn't really work with modern multiple category pricing and different stadium areas. We certainly don't have enough turnstiles to do that at Palmerston. I wouldn't have thought Ayr do either. Or most sides outside the top level. Realistically without rebuilding grounds on a major scale, the solution to contactless payment and entry is what Ayr do and certainly will not involve physically paying at the turnstile in any format. A quick scan of a code on a phone or piece of paper is how that would need to work and then it doesn't matter which turnstile you use.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[Homer Thompson]

5 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Well yes, obviously. That's possible potentially at Celtic Park or Hampden with dozens of entry points to each stand. It doesn't really work at 90% of grounds though where there will be 2 or 3 turnstiles to enter one section of the ground.

The old traditional separate turnstile approach dates to the days when you had one stand and the rest was terrace and there were probably two prices, Adult and Child. It doesn't really work with modern multiple category pricing and different stadium areas. We certainly don't have enough turnstiles to do that at Palmerston. I wouldn't have thought Ayr do either. Or most sides outside the top level. Realistically without rebuilding grounds on a major scale, the solution to contactless payment and entry is what Ayr do and certainly will not involve physically paying at the turnstile in any format. A quick scan of a code on a phone or piece of paper is how that would need to work and then it doesn't matter which turnstile you use.

I agree.

If you use contacless payment on London transport you are automatically charged an adult rate. In theory, its possible to replicate that at a football ground with a payment device at each turnstile. However, given the confusion and potential to piss off concession fans its hard to see any real benefits.