DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Isn't the whole point of the rule about members clubs abiding by decision of the Board meant to prevent exactly this situation? All disputes should be settled via the internal processes, rather than taken to expensive, external courts?? Hearts, Patrick, Utd, Cove & Raith should all be expelled for going outwith the internal processes. Sounds fair…. I know you are fishing. The 3 promoted clubs were cited by Hearts - there was no option to go to internal arbitration for them. They also were not taking the SPFL to court.Hearts and Partick on the other hand . . . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Spikethedee said: Isn't the whole point of the rule about members clubs abiding by decision of the Board meant to prevent exactly this situation? All disputes should be settled via the internal processes, rather than taken to expensive, external courts?? Hearts, Patrick, Utd, Cove & Raith should all be expelled for going outwith the internal processes. Sounds fair…. The latter 3 and the SPFL are defending the action, they never instigated it, but I guess you know that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikethedee Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: I know you are fishing. The 3 promoted clubs were cited by Hearts - there was no option to go to internal arbitration for them. They also were not taking the SPFL to court. Hearts and Partick on the other hand . . . 7 minutes ago, Zen Archer Esq. said: The latter 3 and the SPFL are defending the action, they never instigated it, but I guess you know that. Moi???? How very dare you.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballinsider Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 A lot is getting made about clubs finances in Scotland. Aberdeen, Dundee, Hearts, Hibs being up front with their fans and Celtic being sensible. They are all owned by wealthy individuals or consortiums. Cormack & investors Keyes Capital Budge & friends Ron Gordon All wealthy, but all making sensible moves now with their clubs & other business interests. They are successful in business as they turn off the expenditure taps at the right time & start planning with insight & being realistic as the country is facing an economic recession or depression. They are asking for wage deferrals & wage cuts from players & staff. They are making financial cuts in clubs departments & In some cases making redundancies. Not because they want too, because they are trying to safeguard their club for generations to come. Certain staff from clubs departments are being let go because the harsh reality is; there is currently no job for them and won’t be for some time. 3/4 of these clubs have signed players, because they need too as that department has a job to do in a matter of weeks - playing football (Hearts could win legal case ). Its all well & good clubs having money just now through season ticket sales & fans fundraising, but without sensible planning that will go down the drain quickly. Luckily Aberdeen & Hibs have TV money, not a lot granted, which will keep the income tap dripping out. Dundee & Hearts don’t, that tap is dried up. No one knows how long this pandemic/economic collapse will go on for. How long until academies can restart, how long until home/away supporters are allowed in stadiums, the list goes on. Best case is home & away fans are allowed in stadiums, Scotlands Covid plan is working and we no longer need Test & Protect. Back to normal for clubs which brings in cash £££. That is unrealistic though at the time of writing. The reality is no away fans in stadiums for some time & home season ticket holders being spread out (more stands need to be open which costs; stewards, electricity, turnstile staff, kiosk staff, police etc), no PATG due to Test & Protect scheme, supporters buying tickets in advance with the capacity reduced to 50% and no fans singing! Undersoil heating (££) will be on during the winter to make sure games are going ahead in a tighter calendar with not a lot of room for rescheduling. Covid testing will continue which cost money, PPE need to be purchased. At this point the players are playing so clubs have wages, bonuses, bus hire, PPE, electricity for stadium, general bills to pay - yet no or extremely limited money coming in. Worst case is no supporters allowed in stadiums until at least January or even until next season at the earliest. Country faces regional lockdowns, another wave and/or football suspended. No furlough option, staff & fans losing their own jobs - literally no income for clubs. In some senses next summer will be harder than this summer. This time next year the country will be in the middle of a recession/depression, high unemployment, attending football matches and saving your club will be the last thing on your mind. This year will have been difficult to find sponsorship deals, next year will be even harder as businesses will be going bust and laying off staff. Smaller clubs could suffer and do they have the infrastructure online/ticket facility as PATG won’t be allowed if Test & Protect is still in place, as the club will need personal details of who attended. Celtic aren’t planning of splashing the cash, why? Because there is a real chance of football being suspended again (More down to resilience factor for emergency services if there is another outbreak). No one can give a date of when this will end, no one has lived through this before. This isn’t a race to see who can hold off the longest before ‘announcing’ savings or not wanting to look ‘bad’ in the media or to your friends who support rivals clubs. This is a marathon to see which club will still be here in 5 years time and to say ‘we were sensible and we planned’. These clubs and some others are planning and being sensible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 55 minutes ago, footballinsider said: A lot is getting made about clubs finances in Scotland. Aberdeen, Dundee, Hearts, Hibs being up front with their fans and Celtic being sensible. They are all owned by wealthy individuals or consortiums. Cormack & investors Keyes Capital Budge & friends Ron Gordon All wealthy, but all making sensible moves now with their clubs & other business interests. They are successful in business as they turn off the expenditure taps at the right time & start planning with insight & being realistic as the country is facing an economic recession or depression. They are asking for wage deferrals & wage cuts from players & staff. They are making financial cuts in clubs departments & In some cases making redundancies. Not because they want too, because they are trying to safeguard their club for generations to come. Certain staff from clubs departments are being let go because the harsh reality is; there is currently no job for them and won’t be for some time. 3/4 of these clubs have signed players, because they need too as that department has a job to do in a matter of weeks - playing football (Hearts could win legal case ). Its all well & good clubs having money just now through season ticket sales & fans fundraising, but without sensible planning that will go down the drain quickly. Luckily Aberdeen & Hibs have TV money, not a lot granted, which will keep the income tap dripping out. Dundee & Hearts don’t, that tap is dried up. No one knows how long this pandemic/economic collapse will go on for. How long until academies can restart, how long until home/away supporters are allowed in stadiums, the list goes on. Best case is home & away fans are allowed in stadiums, Scotlands Covid plan is working and we no longer need Test & Protect. Back to normal for clubs which brings in cash £££. That is unrealistic though at the time of writing. The reality is no away fans in stadiums for some time & home season ticket holders being spread out (more stands need to be open which costs; stewards, electricity, turnstile staff, kiosk staff, police etc), no PATG due to Test & Protect scheme, supporters buying tickets in advance with the capacity reduced to 50% and no fans singing! Undersoil heating (££) will be on during the winter to make sure games are going ahead in a tighter calendar with not a lot of room for rescheduling. Covid testing will continue which cost money, PPE need to be purchased. At this point the players are playing so clubs have wages, bonuses, bus hire, PPE, electricity for stadium, general bills to pay - yet no or extremely limited money coming in. Worst case is no supporters allowed in stadiums until at least January or even until next season at the earliest. Country faces regional lockdowns, another wave and/or football suspended. No furlough option, staff & fans losing their own jobs - literally no income for clubs. In some senses next summer will be harder than this summer. This time next year the country will be in the middle of a recession/depression, high unemployment, attending football matches and saving your club will be the last thing on your mind. This year will have been difficult to find sponsorship deals, next year will be even harder as businesses will be going bust and laying off staff. Smaller clubs could suffer and do they have the infrastructure online/ticket facility as PATG won’t be allowed if Test & Protect is still in place, as the club will need personal details of who attended. Celtic aren’t planning of splashing the cash, why? Because there is a real chance of football being suspended again (More down to resilience factor for emergency services if there is another outbreak). No one can give a date of when this will end, no one has lived through this before. This isn’t a race to see who can hold off the longest before ‘announcing’ savings or not wanting to look ‘bad’ in the media or to your friends who support rivals clubs. This is a marathon to see which club will still be here in 5 years time and to say ‘we were sensible and we planned’. These clubs and some others are planning and being sensible. Too long; didn't read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolph Hucker Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, virginton said: Too long; didn't read. Talking bollocks yet again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Red dot yet again. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, footballinsider said: Its all well & good clubs having money just now through season ticket sales & fans fundraising, but without sensible planning that will go down the drain quickly. Luckily Aberdeen & Hibs have TV money, not a lot granted, which will keep the income tap dripping out. Dundee & Hearts don’t, that tap is dried up. You can't be much of a "football insider" if you don't know how the TV money is distributed in Scotland. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolph Hucker Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 56 minutes ago, virginton said: Too long; didn't read. 37 minutes ago, Rudolph Hucker said: Talking bollocks yet again. 27 minutes ago, craigkillie said: You can't be much of a "football insider" if you don't know how the TV money is distributed in Scotland. Telt ye, po-face! 32 minutes ago, virginton said: Red dot yet again. Rid dots?? Pah. I fart in your general direction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 3 hours ago, footballinsider said: Its all well & good clubs having money just now through season ticket sales & fans fundraising, but without sensible planning that will go down the drain quickly. Luckily Aberdeen & Hibs have TV money, not a lot granted, which will keep the income tap dripping out. Dundee & Hearts don’t, that tap is dried up. Whit? They've got more TV money than any team in their position ever had before. A lot less than usual for Hearts right enough but that's relegation for you. TV money is not remotely relevant here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poet of the Macabre Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 15 hours ago, footballinsider said: A lot is getting made about clubs finances in Scotland. Aberdeen, Dundee, Hearts, Hibs being up front with their fans and Celtic being sensible. They are all owned by wealthy individuals or consortiums. Cormack & investors Keyes Capital Budge & friends Ron Gordon All wealthy, but all making sensible moves now with their clubs & other business interests. They are successful in business as they turn off the expenditure taps at the right time & start planning with insight & being realistic as the country is facing an economic recession or depression. They are asking for wage deferrals & wage cuts from players & staff. They are making financial cuts in clubs departments & In some cases making redundancies. Not because they want too, because they are trying to safeguard their club for generations to come. Certain staff from clubs departments are being let go because the harsh reality is; there is currently no job for them and won’t be for some time. 3/4 of these clubs have signed players, because they need too as that department has a job to do in a matter of weeks - playing football (Hearts could win legal case ). Its all well & good clubs having money just now through season ticket sales & fans fundraising, but without sensible planning that will go down the drain quickly. Luckily Aberdeen & Hibs have TV money, not a lot granted, which will keep the income tap dripping out. Dundee & Hearts don’t, that tap is dried up. No one knows how long this pandemic/economic collapse will go on for. How long until academies can restart, how long until home/away supporters are allowed in stadiums, the list goes on. Best case is home & away fans are allowed in stadiums, Scotlands Covid plan is working and we no longer need Test & Protect. Back to normal for clubs which brings in cash £££. That is unrealistic though at the time of writing. The reality is no away fans in stadiums for some time & home season ticket holders being spread out (more stands need to be open which costs; stewards, electricity, turnstile staff, kiosk staff, police etc), no PATG due to Test & Protect scheme, supporters buying tickets in advance with the capacity reduced to 50% and no fans singing! Undersoil heating (££) will be on during the winter to make sure games are going ahead in a tighter calendar with not a lot of room for rescheduling. Covid testing will continue which cost money, PPE need to be purchased. At this point the players are playing so clubs have wages, bonuses, bus hire, PPE, electricity for stadium, general bills to pay - yet no or extremely limited money coming in. Worst case is no supporters allowed in stadiums until at least January or even until next season at the earliest. Country faces regional lockdowns, another wave and/or football suspended. No furlough option, staff & fans losing their own jobs - literally no income for clubs. In some senses next summer will be harder than this summer. This time next year the country will be in the middle of a recession/depression, high unemployment, attending football matches and saving your club will be the last thing on your mind. This year will have been difficult to find sponsorship deals, next year will be even harder as businesses will be going bust and laying off staff. Smaller clubs could suffer and do they have the infrastructure online/ticket facility as PATG won’t be allowed if Test & Protect is still in place, as the club will need personal details of who attended. Celtic aren’t planning of splashing the cash, why? Because there is a real chance of football being suspended again (More down to resilience factor for emergency services if there is another outbreak). No one can give a date of when this will end, no one has lived through this before. This isn’t a race to see who can hold off the longest before ‘announcing’ savings or not wanting to look ‘bad’ in the media or to your friends who support rivals clubs. This is a marathon to see which club will still be here in 5 years time and to say ‘we were sensible and we planned’. These clubs and some others are planning and being sensible. Imagine writing a post this bloated, calling yourself an “insider” and not having a single fucking clue what you are talking about. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolph Hucker Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Poet of the Macabre said: Imagine writing a post this bloated, calling yourself an “insider” and not having a single fucking clue what you are talking about. . How long have you been reading P&B for?? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Obviously no official confirmation on this yet if it's still at the planning stage, but worth noting this comment from Dave MacKinnon. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53375596 Quote The SFA and the SPFL are looking into extending the transfer window for Championship, League One and League Two clubs. They are also looking at increasing the number of loan players from four to six, and to extending the period when you can sign players on loan. It's been obvious for a while that a change to the dates of the window is a necessity, but the increase in loans permitted would be helpful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poet of the Macabre Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I’m going to have to steal Stephen O’Donnell’s comment about being tighter than two coats of paint. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Dunning1874 said: Obviously no official confirmation on this yet if it's still at the planning stage, but worth noting this comment from Dave MacKinnon. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53375596 It's been obvious for a while that a change to the dates of the window is a necessity, but the increase in loans permitted would be helpful. Presumably all divisions have to share a window? UEFA are dictating Summer windows end, at the latest, on October 5th. FIFA state no window can be longer than 8 weeks. Not been confirmed yet but if lower league clubs want that window, then a July 27th open date would be the earliest it could open. Not great for top flight sides who start on August 1st, but presumably it goes to a vote to decide? And the top flight would be massively outnumbered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said: Presumably all divisions have to share a window? UEFA are dictating Summer windows end, at the latest, on October 5th. FIFA state no window can be longer than 8 weeks. Not been confirmed yet but if lower league clubs want that window, then a July 27th open date would be the earliest it could open. Not great for top flight sides who start on August 1st, but presumably it goes to a vote to decide? And the top flight would be massively outnumbered. 12 weeks for the summer transfer window, not 8. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, Skyline Drifter said: 12 weeks for the summer transfer window, not 8. I've no idea why I put 8 As I say, I'm sure if you're wanting the October deadline day then its late July it can open the earliest. I know the Premiership club referenced in that article about "not signing players until the window is open" is Saints, and i know they have no idea when the window opens, so from a selfish point of view I'm wanting the window opened needed tomorrow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said: Presumably all divisions have to share a window? UEFA are dictating Summer windows end, at the latest, on October 5th. FIFA state no window can be longer than 8 weeks. Not been confirmed yet but if lower league clubs want that window, then a July 27th open date would be the earliest it could open. Not great for top flight sides who start on August 1st, but presumably it goes to a vote to decide? And the top flight would be massively outnumbered. While it's not ideal, I suppose it's still something Premiership clubs could work around though? So while for example Shaun Rooney and Kevin Nisbet wouldn't officially be registered as St Johnstone and Hibs players respectively until July 27th, they can still train with their new clubs now before the transfer is officially complete. It's a bit of a minefield but I think I'm right saying Rooney could be employed by St Johnstone now, just not being registered as a player until the window opens? Obviously the two wouldn't usually be separated but it seems sensible in this case and would allow clubs to ensure players couldn't back out of contracts come July 27th because they've had a better offer elsewhere either. It would mean registering them as players when the window opens is just an administrative technicality rather than something that ruins your whole pre-season preparation. I get why that's problematic but it seems more workable than having the window close for lower leagues a month before the season starts. Of course, FIFA could just bin that restriction on the length of windows for this season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said: While it's not ideal, I suppose it's still something Premiership clubs could work around though? So while for example Shaun Rooney and Kevin Nisbet wouldn't officially be registered as St Johnstone and Hibs players respectively until July 27th, they can still train with their new clubs now before the transfer is officially complete. It's a bit of a minefield but I think I'm right saying Rooney could be employed by St Johnstone now, just not being registered as a player until the window opens? Obviously the two wouldn't usually be separated but it seems sensible in this case and would allow clubs to ensure players couldn't back out of contracts come July 27th because they've had a better offer elsewhere either. It would mean registering them as players when the window opens is just an administrative technicality rather than something that ruins your whole pre-season preparation. I get why that's problematic but it seems more workable than having the window close for lower leagues a month before the season starts. Of course, FIFA could just bin that restriction on the length of windows for this season. Yeah its definitely not an issue at all, but according to an agent (who might have been lied too), we aren't signing any form of contract with anyone until the window opens. I imagine we're the only club who are, apparently, going down that bizarre, pointless, route. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) The SFA are allowing clubs to 'lodge' paperwork on new signings and just sitting on them until the window actually opens and not processing them. As long as you lodge the paperwork is lodged within 14 days of signing there is no issue with that and the window not being open is fairly irrelevant. Its only really relevant to direct transfers and I suppose to international signings (which obviously includes England). Edited to add - it will open at some point in the next three weeks for sure. They were considering opening it for a few days then closing it again temporarily to let them register those done so far. Its only allowed 12 weeks in total but it can be two split periods. However they havent done it yet. Edited July 13, 2020 by Skyline Drifter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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