Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[vikingTON]

It doesn't match the normal scheduling though because you still have the entire Betfred Cup to account for (most significant for this level), as well as running the Scottish Cup presumably from the usual preliminaries. By October 2019 seven matchdays had been completed at Championship level as well as seven Betfred Cup matchdays which had already reached the semi final stage. It is more games in less time which means more midweek games with dung crowds and less income. It also doesn't leave room for future disruption to the schedule which leaves the entire business model vulnerable to a second wave of the virus.

To be clear, the SPFL were absolutely right to set out a restart plan that was based on conservative estimations from the situation we faced many weeks ago. But as circumstances change and the ability to improve the safeguards for the next league campaign becomes possible then they should be willing to do that instead of clinging onto furlough inactivity for as long as possible. There are very few businesses who will return to 100% earning capacity this year but they are still returning as soon as it is safe and viable for them to do so. If professional football clubs think that they are a special case then they will be forfeiting any moral justification for government support in the future and so should be placed at the back of that queue indefinitely.

 

 

[RandomGuy.]

You can only play 36 or 27 games.

If you're playing 27 games, does it make more sense to keep the initial date for "Matchday 11" and start there, keeping furlough for as long as possible, and having the best possible chance to have minimal games behind closed doors? Or pull the date forward, increase the chances of increased games behind closed doors, and increase the amount of money you'll spend the season by reducing the amount of time you can furlough players?

[TheScarf]

Match day 10 Shirley?

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Match day 10 Shirley?

Me no do good math.

[Finlay21]

8 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

You can only play 36 or 27 games.

If you're playing 27 games, does it make more sense to keep the initial date for "Matchday 11" and start there, keeping furlough for as long as possible, and having the best possible chance to have minimal games behind closed doors? Or pull the date forward, increase the chances of increased games behind closed doors, and increase the amount of money you'll spend the season by reducing the amount of time you can furlough players?

Option 1 , crowds are still not guaranteed in August , waiting until October allows us to get teams in for a decent pre season and a greater chance of getting in which is going to be minimum crowd , don’t know where posters on here get the “ it only takes a couple of weeks “ to get ready to playing again , Premiership are back training 7 weeks before first scheduled game , don’t know why all the knicker wetting , clubs agreed to a 27 game season starting in October , it’s not going to change so just accept it and look forward to then 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Robbo63

[Skyline Drifter]

56 minutes ago, virginton said:

You can't really state 'facts' about an uncertain set of potential scenarios in the future, wrapped around the progression of a novel virus m8. It's a problem that applies equally to your beloved 'starting from October no matter what' plan as well though.

If crowds aren't allowed back in grounds then there's no reason for the season to start earlier than scheduled. If they are allowed however then the season should be started earlier to make use of that window to play matches. That is the M.O. of a professional football club, not grubbing around on government subsidies for as long as possible.

I've stated a fact. You can absolutely state a fact. It's a fact that payroll costs are covered (or partly covered if your staff earn more than £2,500 per month) until end of August. Everything else you have said is an utter guess and even at its most optimistic we'd have to start training now, as the Premiership clubs already are. That's not happening. And the benefits of having an extra few weeks if it can't fit 9 games in are virtually nil.

Again, you can sit here typing out your "straw man" ideologies about clubs having to work to their "M.O" all you like. In the real world the people responsible for paying the bills will operate in the manner best placed for them to do so. If the tv contract wasn't a factor I doubt the Premiership clubs would be back so early either.

I note you both failed to provide any examples of additional losses that will be incurred by Championship sides from an early finish next season and indeed edited out the question from the quote? Would you like to address that now or are you hoping that particular piece of nonsense just slides away with no further comment?

[vikingTON]

18 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I've stated a fact. You can absolutely state a fact. It's a fact that payroll costs are covered (or partly covered if your staff earn more than £2,500 per month) until end of August. Everything else you have said is an utter guess and even at its most optimistic we'd have to start training now, as the Premiership clubs already are. That's not happening.

Why on earth would Championship clubs have to start traning now at the end of June to play fixtures in September? The standard training to first competitive match period in a regular season is around five weeks - and that's only for players signed up at a club in June. Given the unprecedented circumstances this can be truncated even further to get the season going while the external conditions are appropriate to do so.

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In the real world the people responsible for paying the bills will operate in the manner best placed for them to do so.

Erm yes, because if there's one group of people who can be relied on to always show a firm grasp of their economic best interest and external risks to ensure that they can pay their bills, it is Scottish football club executives. Other than the ones at all the clubs who have gone into administration of course and the ones who signed off on the Setanta deal.

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I note you both failed to provide any examples of additional losses that will be incurred by Championship sides from an early finish next season and indeed edited out the question from the quote? Would you like to address that now or are you hoping that particular piece of nonsense just slides away with no further comment?

It is indeed a 'piece of nonsense' for you to feign ignorance about the costs incurred by a football club from not completing its fixtures, which is why I didn't even entertain it.

Edited June 28, 2020 by vikingTON

[wuffster]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

The fact that you've purposely misrepresented that obvious point confirms that you're not actually arguing in good faith. 

The sheer brass neck of this.

SD seems like a good guy to me. One thing you cannot accuse him of is operating in bad faith. I don't always agree with him or the rule book but that's fine.

[Skyline Drifter]

14 minutes ago, virginton said:

Why on earth would Championship clubs have to start traning now at the end of June to play fixtures in September? The standard training to first competitive match period in a regular season is around five weeks - and that's only for players signed up at a club in June. Given the unprecedented circumstances this can be truncated even further to get the season going while the external conditions are appropriate to do so.

Erm yes, because if there's one group of people who can be relied on to always show a firm grasp of their economic best interest and external risks to ensure that they can pay their bills, it is Scottish football club executives. Other than the ones at all the clubs who have gone into administration of course and the ones who signed off on the Setanta deal.

It is indeed a 'piece of nonsense' for you to feign ignorance about the costs incurred by a football club from not completing its fixtures, which is why I didn't even entertain it.

So still not answering it then. Go on, humour us all. BE VERY SPECIFIC. What losses will a a Championship club suffer in addition to normal costs if the fixtures were not completed in the season ahead?

And I said "at it's most optimistic" which would be if you were able to have crowds by the start of August which you already clarified once was one possibility. Why on earth do you want to start in September anyway? I get the frustration (whether misplaced or not) from those who think we should start at the same time as the Premiership in August. I don't get the obsession with starting in September. Are you planning a 30 game season? 32? Fixture list should be interesting. You're flailing around here insisting on an extra few weeks to play the same number of fixtures with an additional month's costs because, well, you want it, with absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to find a way to pay for it. Meanwhile your justification for knowing better than those in situ how Scottish football should run is a completely irrelevant tv deal with former SPL signed at Setanta about 15 years ago. Honestly, it's laughable. You criticise clubs who have gone into administration whilst simultaneously recommending a course of action likely to send some towards it. You couldn't make it up!

[vikingTON]

44 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

So still not answering it then. Go on, humour us all. BE VERY SPECIFIC. What losses will a a Championship club suffer in addition to normal costs if the fixtures were not completed in the season ahead?

Having to pay the remainder of your player contracts while not actually receiving anticipated matchday revenue is a fairly obvious additional cost. One so significant that it quickly made any notion of continuing the 19/20 season a non-starter at this level.

If football clubs are obliged to play behind closed doors again at some point in 2021 or calling the remainder of the season due to another outbreak then they will bitterly regret not having played more games in front of crowds when they had the opportunity.

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And I said "at it's most optimistic" which would be if you were able to have crowds by the start of August which you already clarified once was one possibility. Why on earth do you want to start in September anyway? I get the frustration (whether misplaced or not) from those who think we should start at the same time as the Premiership in August. I don't get the obsession with starting in September. Are you planning a 30 game season? 32? Fixture list should be interesting.

Nobody has suggested adding extra league games but rather moving the Betfred Cup forward and therefore clearing the schedule for more league games to be played in October uninterrupted by them.

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You're flailing around here insisting on an extra few weeks to play the same number of fixtures with an additional month's costs because, well, you want it, with absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to find a way to pay for it.

The games would pay for themselves by virtue of gate reciepts, prize money and sponsorship. What you want to do is to allow professional football clubs to minimise their outgoings at the taxpayer's expense for as long as possible even when they are perfectly capable of trading, which is both morally wrong and a flagrant taking the piss of the government's furlough support scheme. Which isn't exactly the best PR move when clubs may well have to go back to the public begging bowl in the event of a second wave outbreak.

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Meanwhile your justification for knowing better than those in situ how Scottish football should run is a completely irrelevant tv deal with former SPL signed at Setanta about 15 years ago. Honestly, it's laughable. You criticise clubs who have gone into administration whilst simultaneously recommending a course of action likely to send some towards it. You couldn't make it up!

Those 'in situ' experts had no working plan for what to do in the event of the season being interrupted in the first place and are still haggling in the courts as to what its outcome should be. Scottish football is dominated by short term thinking and the idea that its leaders should be in any way trusted to find the optimum strategy to handle this restart is laughable.

Edited June 28, 2020 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

26 minutes ago, wuffster said:

The sheer brass neck of this.

SD seems like a good guy to me. One thing you cannot accuse him of is operating in bad faith. I don't always agree with him or the rule book but that's fine.

Well he's either not arguing in good faith by repeatedly misrepresenting points made on this thread or he's lost all ability to read for the sake of comprehension. My money's definitely on the former.

[Rudolph Hucker]

Here's a thought - sack Doncaster and give the job to vt. Sure, it'll wreak havoc in Scottish football but it'll give him some much-needed career experience of actually working in the real world, and best of all he'll be so busy fucking things up that we'll see the amount of utter shite he currently posts on the P&B forums reduced to a skittering trickle. 

[Ludo*1]

What is the proposed date for Championship clubs to return to training?

[RandomGuy.]

14 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

What is the proposed date for Championship clubs to return to training?

According to VT it should be today. And then you decide in August whether or not to play as there might be crowds at games.

[Mexico]

How can clubs go back to training if they are claiming furlough until the end of August?

[rb123!]

Ayr aren't going back into training until some point in August from what I've heard

[vikingTON]

6 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

According to VT it should be today. And then you decide in August whether or not to play as there might be crowds at games.

If you're a simpleton who can't actually read for the sake of comprehension, sure.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, rb123! said:

Ayr aren't going back into training until some point in August from what I've heard

Source? It better no be Stevo's Gran.

[Rudolph Hucker]

24 minutes ago, virginton said:

If you're a simpleton who can't actually read for the sake of comprehension, sure.

....... or one unable to appreciate the subtle nuances of sarcasm, even? 

[D'Jaffo]

Source? It better no be Stevo's Gran.

Was in the AP a couple of weeks ago.