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Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

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16 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

“Do a paper”? What does that even mean?

 

Formalise  the proposal. The law doesn't allow to take money that you can't account for.

Edited by Sergeant Wilson

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3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Formalise  the proposal. The law doesn't allow to to take money that you can't account for.

This is true but I imagine what was really meant here isnt ID'ing the source of the funds which presumably should be very easy. I imagine the two crucial questions are:

1 - what are the conditions, if any, attached to this donation? ie is it conditional on some form of reconstruction, or only payable to clubs outside top division (who are set to play anyway) or only payable in the top two divisions (to ensure Hearts can play), etc

2 - how would it be proposed to be distributed? Blanket amount per club? Blanket amount per registered professional player (since my understanding is it was proposed to pay for covid testing)? Different amounts per club depending on division (which makes little sense since presumably the cost of tests is the same). 

Etc. These are the things that need clarified. If its truly just an arbitrary donation there is nothing stopping the donors from writing 42 cheques right now and posting them. It doesnt have to go through the League. Its not without conditions because she already said it was to ensure lower league clubs could play (although underwriting the additional cost of testing will not in itself solve the problem for clubs with no income to hire a squad).

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Was this money to be distributed equally or are Hearts getting 99.9999% of it with everyone else getting about £0.86?

 

 

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I just hope that the SPFL board don't act like many of the posters on here and just ignore this (perhaps) opportunity. One of the things Budge was complaining about was the lack of interest from anyone at the SPFL. Surely someone, (maybe a highly paid chief exec) should have been jumping all over this and not telling her to get on with it and present a paper? Ann Budge made it plain that her interests lie in protecting Hearts and that's where she wanted to direct her energies. Ok, there is a chance that this is pie in the sky and will come to nothing but surely Scottish football can't take that chance?

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I just hope that the SPFL board don't act like many of the posters on here and just ignore this (perhaps) opportunity. One of the things Budge was complaining about was the lack of interest from anyone at the SPFL. Surely someone, (maybe a highly paid chief exec) should have been jumping all over this and not telling her to get on with it and present a paper? Ann Budge made it plain that her interests lie in protecting Hearts and that's where she wanted to direct her energies. Ok, there is a chance that this is pie in the sky and will come to nothing but surely Scottish football can't take that chance?
If it's as simple as Ann Budge is suggesting, then it would take half an hour to knock up a proposal paper detailing where the money comes from, the purpose of it and any conditions.

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8 minutes ago, true_rover said:
26 minutes ago, ScottyG said:
I just hope that the SPFL board don't act like many of the posters on here and just ignore this (perhaps) opportunity. One of the things Budge was complaining about was the lack of interest from anyone at the SPFL. Surely someone, (maybe a highly paid chief exec) should have been jumping all over this and not telling her to get on with it and present a paper? Ann Budge made it plain that her interests lie in protecting Hearts and that's where she wanted to direct her energies. Ok, there is a chance that this is pie in the sky and will come to nothing but surely Scottish football can't take that chance?

If it's as simple as Ann Budge is suggesting, then it would take half an hour to knock up a proposal paper detailing where the money comes from, the purpose of it and any conditions.

But it's not up to her to decide the details, purpose or any conditions, so why should she? If the SPFL don't want it the they should just say so!

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6 minutes ago, ScottyG said:

But it's not up to her to decide the details, purpose or any conditions, so why should she? If the SPFL don't want it the they should just say so!

Its up to the donors to decide the conditions, which could include the purpose and the detail. If shes acting as the intermediary between them and the SPFL then why shouldnt she put some of the detail in writing?

Whats more worrying is how in, apparently, several discussions between Budge and Doncaster there was confusion over the conditions behind the donations.

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13 minutes ago, ScottyG said:

But it's not up to her to decide the details, purpose or any conditions, so why should she? If the SPFL don't want it the they should just say so!

You've swallowed Budge's propaganda quicker than BBC Scotland.

Asking Budge to put in a paper and formalise it is not the same as saying they don't want it.

Also, she is the intermediary with these donors so the onnus is on her. They approached her and she has a responsibility to bring it forward or even pass them to Doncaster. I think he even said as much.

Budge has had an almighty mare here. She's turned something that could be a good news story into a farce.

Edited by Trogdor

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22 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

A partly fair point but only addresses the problem in the top half of the two lower divisions. Playoffs change nothing in regards to ghe meaninglessness of games in the lower halves of tables really nor for the top end of the Premier.

They do if you set up your playoffs properly. For the lower leagues: 

1st and 2nd go up automatically (with 13th and 14th straight down from the top two flights)

3rd and 4th go into the playoff semi final with 12th from the Premiership

5th then plays the team that finishes top of the bottom section for the last semi final spot. 

A similar playoff can be set up to determine at least one of the European spots in the top flight, as they have already been doing in the Netherlands for years.

That said, we should hardly be putting a premium on 'competitive games' above all else in any sort of reconstructed setup. We already have an insanely high number of competitive games under the current format: the overall standard is brutal though and has been declining for years. A larger and more stable midtable would give coaches the breathing space to develop an increasingly cohesive team, instead of chucking in more ringers to keep their club up/get into the playoffs every six months.

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58 minutes ago, ScottyG said:

I just hope that the SPFL board don't act like many of the posters on here and just ignore this (perhaps) opportunity. One of the things Budge was complaining about was the lack of interest from anyone at the SPFL. Surely someone, (maybe a highly paid chief exec) should have been jumping all over this and not telling her to get on with it and present a paper? Ann Budge made it plain that her interests lie in protecting Hearts and that's where she wanted to direct her energies. Ok, there is a chance that this is pie in the sky and will come to nothing but surely Scottish football can't take that chance?

Seriously, are you 12? Nobody, but nobody, has expressed a lack of interest. A lot of cynicism and scepticism but thats not the same thing. She / they havent been asked for anything unreasonable. 

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37 minutes ago, ScottyG said:

But it's not up to her to decide the details, purpose or any conditions, so why should she? If the SPFL don't want it the they should just say so!

Are you a child?

Do you seriously expect an organisation so open to public scrutiny as the SPFL to agree to accept money without question from an unknown source with no paper trail or opportunity to ask questions of the donor?

Eta, snap!

Edited by Sergeant Wilson

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Presumably for idiots like Scotty, it'll be absolutely fine if each club's portion is delivered in brown paper bags, used notes and mixed denominations of 5s, 10s and 20s.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Presumably for idiots like Scotty, it'll be absolutely fine if each club's portion is delivered in brown paper bags, used notes and mixed denominations of 5s, 10s and 20s.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

This is true but I imagine what was really meant here isnt ID'ing the source of the funds which presumably should be very easy. I imagine the two crucial questions are:

1 - what are the conditions, if any, attached to this donation? ie is it conditional on some form of reconstruction, or only payable to clubs outside top division (who are set to play anyway) or only payable in the top two divisions (to ensure Hearts can play), etc

2 - how would it be proposed to be distributed? Blanket amount per club? Blanket amount per registered professional player (since my understanding is it was proposed to pay for covid testing)? Different amounts per club depending on division (which makes little sense since presumably the cost of tests is the same). 

Etc. These are the things that need clarified. If its truly just an arbitrary donation there is nothing stopping the donors from writing 42 cheques right now and posting them. It doesnt have to go through the League. Its not without conditions because she already said it was to ensure lower league clubs could play (although underwriting the additional cost of testing will not in itself solve the problem for clubs with no income to hire a squad).

Not as easy as you might think. Especially if the money comes from a company which for arguments sake has a registered office in the Isle of Man, Channel Islands or British Virgin Islands. 

Transfers and sources of money between certain countries or continents are extremely difficult to identify for a variety of reasons that I won't go into on here. It can be a long drawn out process. 

There'll undoubtedly be tax implications for the benefactors and it will be extremely unlikely that its just a transfer from a Bank of Scotland current account in the name of Mr Phil Anthropist. 

Even if it is, if you're doing things properly as a national football league receiving a major donation should do, you then have background checks as to the actual source of these funds and where they have been derived from. There could be numerous transfers ultimately beginning in a cash payment into an account from a country which let's say might have less robust checks than you'd hope or expect. These funds could be linked to the most serious of crimes. 

The authorities can't just be hypnotised into not carrying out the proper checks and this should take weeks or months to verify.

In short it can be far, far from as easy or straightforward as you suggest. 

 

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15 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

Not as easy as you might think. Especially if the money comes from a company which for arguments sake has a registered office in the Isle of Man, Channel Islands or British Virgin Islands. 

Transfers and sources of money between certain countries or continents are extremely difficult to identify for a variety of reasons that I won't go into on here. It can be a long drawn out process. 

There'll undoubtedly be tax implications for the benefactors and it will be extremely unlikely that its just a transfer from a Bank of Scotland current account in the name of Mr Phil Anthropist. 

Even if it is, if you're doing things properly as a national football league receiving a major donation should do, you then have background checks as to the actual source of these funds and where they have been derived from. There could be numerous transfers ultimately beginning in a cash payment into an account from a country which let's say might have less robust checks than you'd hope or expect. These funds could be linked to the most serious of crimes. 

The authorities can't just be hypnotised into not carrying out the proper checks and this should take weeks or months to verify.

In short it can be far, far from as easy or straightforward as you suggest. 

 

Part of my job involves running ID checks on people for money laundering. I am well aware of the potential issues. However I am taking it as read the people involved here are not criminals and will not have a reason to hide their ID. If they are non cooperative for any reason the whole debate is ridiculous.

The point is I doubt the reason she has beem asked for written proposals is simply for ID checks. 

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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I'll not miss an opportunity to stick the boot into the SPFL (a shambles of an organisation) however, they're acting in the correct manner on this occasion. I'm actually surprised by it, in all honesty.

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9 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Part of my job involves running ID checks on people for money laundering. I am well aware of the potential issues. However I am taking it as read the people involved here are not criminals and will not have a reason to hide their ID. If they are non cooperative for any reason the whole debate is ridiculous.

The point is I doubt the reason she has beem asked for written proposals is simply for ID checks. 

I'm honestly not having a go or getting involved in a p&b willy waving contest. I'm also speaking from a professional basis and will say no more than that. 

You'll know that just because Joe Bloggs and his friends says it's their money to gift there'll  still have to be the most rigorous of checks carried out on the source of the funds.

ID of the individuals is all good and well, its the source of the funds and previous transfers of same, that I'd be more inclined to have a more detailed look at. 

If it sounds too good to be true and all that... 

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I don't really see the problem with taking drug baron money or blood diamond money considering they allow clubs founded and surviving on religious bigotry and hatred to freely control the game here. 

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Is Budge seriously moaning about having to put this in writing rather than the SPFL just choosing to do a Hamilton without having a clue where the money is coming from?

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18 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

Is Budge seriously moaning about having to put this in writing rather than the SPFL just choosing to do a Hamilton without having a clue where the money is coming from?

Yes.

Her wee sock puppet Tom English is now also moaning about it today.

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