Jump to content
Granny Danger

Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

Recommended Posts

I’ve always been a wee bit sceptical about those who say they’re sick of teams having to play each other four times a season in the league.

10 team leagues are a bore from sheer lack of variety. Not infrequently, playing the same other teams up to 6 times a year (theoretically more) once cups are factored in. In this regard the one remaining delight of the Scottish Cup and even the Challenge Cup is a draw against unfamiliar opposition - after all the vast majority don’t expect to win anything.

 

It’s not even the need actually to attend every away game - there is appeal in having a larger and more varied menu on offer. I don’t go to games merely for the football so greatly appreciate a wider choice of potential destinations especially since more grounds have become identikit plastic boxes.

 

One last point - I don’t think the geography/demographics of Scotland lends itself to such small leagues/divisions. If we can’t have two 22 team leagues (or22-24; coincidentally around the number of full time teams - but with more promotion/relegation, playoffs etc), then I’d prefer 14-14-16.

 

I’m disappointed the opportunity, yes all crises bring opportunity, the virus crisis presented has been utterly spurned in place of business as usual thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

So someone at a club knows you and you sprint off to betray their confidence by posting what they told you on a public forum?

So your calling the poster out for not having a source. Then after getting a source calling them out for betraying someone’s confidence. It’s a race to the bottom when information like this is being written off 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

:lol:

You don't need a qualification in law to understand that there's absolutely no chance Hearts being relegated is breaking any laws.

Thats a bit of a tangent and not what my post says. Actually I said on another thread that I don't think they have a case purely on the relegation aspect of this whole thing, albeit they seem to have the legal of advice of two QCs who will be far more knowledgeable than me. Infact the point being made in that post isn't specific to Hearts or the current goings on. Any club no matter their dispute cannot go to the courts if they so choose. No matter if you agree of disagree with court action and no matter whatever the issue is any club will be  punished by a football body to the point of expulsion and up to £1m fine for going to the courts of the country they are in. They think they are above the law of the land. 

Edited by Fifes Elite Force

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My gut feel is that the 2 metre rule is almost insurmountable.  Think of a seat in the stand at EEP, draw a line for 2 metres in each distance, and consider the toilets....  We are an outlier using 2 metres, I do wonder if we might relax it a bit, and then the numbers might stack up a bit better for some clubs?

The more I think about the distance between seats the more unlikely it seems.

 

How many seats would you need in every direction to be 2 metres from everyone? Seats are roughly 40cm wide so maybe 5 empty seats? Plus 5 rows forward and back. If everyone “owns” 3 seats to one side and 2 the other. 3 rows in front and 2 behind, you’ve got one person in a grid of 36 seats.

 

Dens would have a capacity of roughly 329 and a chunk of that would be taken up by officials and stewards.

 

That’s clearly all based on little in depth thought, but with a crowd that low I’m not sure what the point is in going to the effort of having fans in at all, before you even get on to toilets etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

albeit they seem to have the legal of advice of two QCs who will be telling Hearts whatever they want to get paid. 

FTFY.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

FTFY.

Probably something in that. I also think the chances are they are jambos offering their services so will be desperate to make a case out of it when so far I havnt seen anything really on the relegation aspect that make them win. I suppose we will see if they do go down the legal route what they have.Budge said yesterday they are ready to "push the button" on it when ready. She did say they were two independent legal opinions but were consistent together when they got them.

Edited by Fifes Elite Force

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

Probably something in that. 

It will be.

Hearts, desperate and with a wad of cash - "Do we have a case?"

QC, knowing he will get paid if it goes to court, even if it's a lost cause - "Well it would be worth a go"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

It will be.

Hearts, desperate and with a wad of cash - "Do we have a case?"

QC, knowing he will get paid if it goes to court, even if it's a lost cause - "Well it would be worth a go"

could very well be

 

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, stu2910 said:

The more I think about the distance between seats the more unlikely it seems.

 

How many seats would you need in every direction to be 2 metres from everyone? Seats are roughly 40cm wide so maybe 5 empty seats? Plus 5 rows forward and back. If everyone “owns” 3 seats to one side and 2 the other. 3 rows in front and 2 behind, you’ve got one person in a grid of 36 seats.

 

Dens would have a capacity of roughly 329 and a chunk of that would be taken up by officials and stewards.

 

That’s clearly all based on little in depth thought, but with a crowd that low I’m not sure what the point is in going to the effort of having fans in at all, before you even get on to toilets etc.

You can also factor in same household groups of fans sitting together, which would bump the crowd up a bit, still fine margins to be running at though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can also factor in same household groups of fans sitting together, which would bump the crowd up a bit, still fine margins to be running at though.

Fair point, but yeh even a crowd of 1000 is hardly sustainable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, farflung lichtie said:

One last point - I don’t think the geography/demographics of Scotland lends itself to such small leagues/divisions. If we can’t have two 22 team leagues (or22-24; coincidentally around the number of full time teams - but with more promotion/relegation, playoffs etc), then I’d prefer 14-14-16.

........ said absolutely nobody who remembers the 14 team divisions of the 80's.

It's not that long ago. It amazes me how many people can't recall why we came away from them in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, stu2910 said:

The more I think about the distance between seats the more unlikely it seems.

 

How many seats would you need in every direction to be 2 metres from everyone? Seats are roughly 40cm wide so maybe 5 empty seats? Plus 5 rows forward and back. If everyone “owns” 3 seats to one side and 2 the other. 3 rows in front and 2 behind, you’ve got one person in a grid of 36 seats.

 

Dens would have a capacity of roughly 329 and a chunk of that would be taken up by officials and stewards.

 

That’s clearly all based on little in depth thought, but with a crowd that low I’m not sure what the point is in going to the effort of having fans in at all, before you even get on to toilets etc.

There was some research on this a few weeks ago I read and the general thinking was that under social distancing Ibrox for instance would have a capacity of about 5,000. Not sure it would be as simple as 10% or so across the board, it's bound to be different for clubs with terracing for a start, but as a rough starting point I imagine 10% if 2m remains in place is a fair guess,

33 minutes ago, Dee-funked said:

You can also factor in same household groups of fans sitting together, which would bump the crowd up a bit, still fine margins to be running at though.

We did this debate in the Ayr thread last week, whilst that's potentially true, they are going to have to set ground capacity limits by calculation and it's not going to change because Mr & Mrs Smith turn up with their three kids on the day. 

In practice capacities will be set by Councils on the assumption that supporters are all unrelated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except that in the 1980s the concept of league splits and/or playoffs were anathema to Scottish football: a trait that you can still easily find among dinosaurs of the game and old boomer fans today. 

The 14 team leagues being proposed in 2020 are not the same as the 39 game season nonsense under the old SFL, so should be judged on their own merits/faults alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Skyline Drifter said:

We did this debate in the Ayr thread last week, whilst that's potentially true, they are going to have to set ground capacity limits by calculation and it's not going to change because Mr & Mrs Smith turn up with their three kids on the day. 

In practice capacities will be set by Councils on the assumption that supporters are all unrelated.

That's a good point, in theory the only way around that would be for the clubs to lay out a plan based around season ticket holders on their system who share a household and have seats beside each other. Although records the club hold won't always be accurate eg one fan can purchase a group of season tickets for family, have them all at the same address, when in reality they don't all live together. Again though, this would obviously have to be agreed with local authorities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Dee-funked said:

That's a good point, in theory the only way around that would be for the clubs to lay out a plan based around season ticket holders on their system who share a household and have seats beside each other. Although records the club hold won't always be accurate eg one fan can purchase a group of season tickets for family, have them all at the same address, when in reality they don't all live together. Again though, this would obviously have to be agreed with local authorities.

The information at most clubs now have addresses of all ticket holders , but as Skyline drifter mentioned I think it would only be possible to set capacities based on individual entry , I would say it would be between 10/20% based on ground layout , the less seats the easier I would think , by the time the league restarts I would think the social distance would be nearer 1 metre , in the area of my place in Spain it is already down to 1 metre social distancing 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Robbo63 said:

The information at most clubs now have addresses of all ticket holders , but as Skyline drifter mentioned I think it would only be possible to set capacities based on individual entry , I would say it would be between 10/20% based on ground layout , the less seats the easier I would think , by the time the league restarts I would think the social distance would be nearer 1 metre , in the area of my place in Spain it is already down to 1 metre social distancing 

I suspect you are right. They are already talking about relaxing 2m rule for work if other mitigation is in place (ie. face masks/coverings). I would have thought a similar approach could be taken to football if it were purely risk based.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, virginton said:

Except that in the 1980s the concept of league splits and/or playoffs were anathema to Scottish football: a trait that you can still easily find among dinosaurs of the game and old boomer fans today. 

The 14 team leagues being proposed in 2020 are not the same as the 39 game season nonsense under the old SFL, so should be judged on their own merits/faults alone.

A partly fair point but only addresses the problem in the top half of the two lower divisions. Playoffs change nothing in regards to ghe meaninglessness of games in the lower halves of tables really nor for the top end of the Premier.

43 minutes ago, Robbo63 said:

The information at most clubs now have addresses of all ticket holders

We  will have an address for everyone but wouldnt be a bit surprised if as Dee Funked says a number of them, particularly family, are registered at one address but dont necessarily live there, particularly if they had them from childhood and keep dolling details forward as its still the family home even though they grew up and went off to college / rent their own place, etc. We dont ask for proof of a current address.

Also people might move out during a season. A lot of it would need self policed, as things like garden visits now do.

52 minutes ago, Dee-funked said:

That's a good point, in theory the only way around that would be for the clubs to lay out a plan based around season ticket holders on their system who share a household and have seats beside each other. Although records the club hold won't always be accurate eg one fan can purchase a group of season tickets for family, have them all at the same address, when in reality they don't all live together. Again though, this would obviously have to be agreed with local authorities.

I dont think its practical for clubs to try to fit social distancing round family groups. It would screw up spacing across a stand. They would set usable seats and then famies book with everyone else (& potentially prove same household to stewards on the day and sit closer to one another if its practical). 

Edited by Skyline Drifter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, stu2910 said:


Fair point, but yeh even a crowd of 1000 is hardly sustainable

A 1000 crowd for you guys isn’t ideal, but at the same time it’s more income than you’d be getting from behind closed doors games 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...