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Granny Danger

Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

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1 hour ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5648689/hearts-sfa-membership-revoked-court/

 

Being reported if hearts pursue any sort of legal action the SFA may well revoke their membership. Football is a total racket when you cant even go through legal routes and laws of the land to resolve problems independently without being punished.

I mean, you're not wrong...

 

...but I'd still find it quite entertaining.

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4 minutes ago, Robbo63 said:

That’s why I have crossed it out , why would I publish someone who works at a football club name on a fans forum , I posted what I got told it’s up to people on forum if they want to agree with it or not , it makes no difference to me whatsoever 

So someone at a club knows you and you sprint off to betray their confidence by posting what they told you on a public forum?

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Tbf Robbo is pretty spot on in regards to stuff happening at Ayr and most Ayr fans know he’s got a link to the club in some way. It’s also not exactly the most outrageous thing to suggest the Championship could start at the time he suggested.

 

weetoonlad just makes stuff up as he goes along and has done since he joined the forum.

 

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3 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

Tbf Robbo is pretty spot on in regards to stuff happening at Ayr and most Ayr fans know he’s got a link to the club in some way. It’s also not exactly the most outrageous thing to suggest the Championship could start at the time he suggested.

 

weetoonlad just makes stuff up as he goes along and has done since he joined the forum.

 

Helpful to know.  A wee bit like Skyline Drifter for Queens fans.  He will post stuff - we might not necessarily like it or agree with it.  However, we can generally accept that anything relating to data is factual, and that most of his opinions are probably not that far away from those of the Queens' directors.  Fans might not agree with them, but in times like these it must be better to have a civilised debate with people who have an insight into the boardroom rather than howling at the moon?

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2 hours ago, virginton said:

Championship clubs cannot effectively 'trade' by playing matches behind closed doors, what with them having no TV deal of any value to cover the costs. It is absolutely the government that is responsible for this stoppage in trade by removing the lion's share of a lower league football club's revenue. An SPFL club is really not much different in this regard to a local chain pub that can't open to customers right now: the owner doesn't get to sue their brewco parent company for the disruption and loss of potential earnings though.

Even more than this, as of right now the Scottish Government has not even allowed the Championship to resume, even behind closed doors.

 

2 hours ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5648689/hearts-sfa-membership-revoked-court/

 

Being reported if hearts pursue any sort of legal action the SFA may well revoke their membership. Football is a total racket when you cant even go through legal routes and laws of the land to resolve problems independently without being punished.

Football has its own legal and legislative process which clubs can follow. Hearts are more than welcome to challenge this decision first to the SFA and then to the Court of Arbritration for Sport in Lausanne. They chose to be members of the SFA and therefore chose to abide by the SFA's rules. If Hearts want to be part of a football organisation which uses the normal courts, then they are more than welcome to set one up.

Edited by craigkillie

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11 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

 

Football has its own legal and legislative process which clubs can follow. Hearts are more than welcome to challenge this decision first to the SFA and then to the Court of Arbritration for Sport in Lausanne. They chose to be members of the SFA and therefore chose to abide by the SFA's rules. If Hearts want to be part of a football organisation which uses the normal courts, then they are more than welcome to set one up.

All true they can, do you think that will ever be logistically possible or do you think the governing bodies in reality have will have them over a barrel?.I think the criticism of all the bodies involved still stands and is a total racket. When proven corrupt bodies enforce rules that punish clubs for going to the courts of the land  to resolve a dispute which may be against the law then I think it deserves criticism.  They think they are above the law.  Would the court of arbitration really be able to give a ruling on breach of company law or competition law as per Scots law?

Edited by Fifes Elite Force

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2 hours ago, Parttimesupporter said:

Helpful to know.  A wee bit like Skyline Drifter for Queens fans.  He will post stuff - we might not necessarily like it or agree with it.  However, we can generally accept that anything relating to data is factual, and that most of his opinions are probably not that far away from those of the Queens' directors.  Fans might not agree with them, but in times like these it must be better to have a civilised debate with people who have an insight into the boardroom rather than howling at the moon?

Actually my opinions are occasionally considerably different to the Queens directors. I tend not to post much opinion though, except in historical context. I havent hidden that I have an involvement at QoS and most Queens fans will be aware of me. 

Robbo hasnt hidden his involvement at Ayr either. I dont know who he is but he is clearly heavily involved in running their automated ticketing system (to the extent he has responded to queries on here and sorted them out within minutes). He quite obviously has some sort of ear to authority at Somerset and if he has heard info then its probably either accurate or at least what Ayr think may happen which isnt necessarily the same thing. As Dundee recently showed, until clubs actually vote you cant be completely sure of anything. 

As for weetoonlad or any of his previous nom de plumes, he is the tannoy guy at Alloa isnt he? And clearly a very bad wind up merchant. 

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7 hours ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

All true they can, do you think that will ever be logistically possible or do you think the governing bodies in reality have will have them over a barrel?.I think the criticism of all the bodies involved still stands and is a total racket. When proven corrupt bodies enforce rules that punish clubs for going to the courts of the land  to resolve a dispute which may be against the law then I think it deserves criticism.  They think they are above the law.  Would the court of arbitration really be able to give a ruling on breach of company law or competition law as per Scots law?

:lol:

You don't need a qualification in law to understand that there's absolutely no chance Hearts being relegated is breaking any laws.

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I’ve always been a wee bit sceptical about those who say they’re sick of teams having to play each other four times a season in the league.

10 team leagues are a bore from sheer lack of variety. Not infrequently, playing the same other teams up to 6 times a year (theoretically more) once cups are factored in. In this regard the one remaining delight of the Scottish Cup and even the Challenge Cup is a draw against unfamiliar opposition - after all the vast majority don’t expect to win anything.

 

It’s not even the need actually to attend every away game - there is appeal in having a larger and more varied menu on offer. I don’t go to games merely for the football so greatly appreciate a wider choice of potential destinations especially since more grounds have become identikit plastic boxes.

 

One last point - I don’t think the geography/demographics of Scotland lends itself to such small leagues/divisions. If we can’t have two 22 team leagues (or22-24; coincidentally around the number of full time teams - but with more promotion/relegation, playoffs etc), then I’d prefer 14-14-16.

 

I’m disappointed the opportunity, yes all crises bring opportunity, the virus crisis presented has been utterly spurned in place of business as usual thinking.

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9 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

So someone at a club knows you and you sprint off to betray their confidence by posting what they told you on a public forum?

So your calling the poster out for not having a source. Then after getting a source calling them out for betraying someone’s confidence. It’s a race to the bottom when information like this is being written off 

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1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

:lol:

You don't need a qualification in law to understand that there's absolutely no chance Hearts being relegated is breaking any laws.

Thats a bit of a tangent and not what my post says. Actually I said on another thread that I don't think they have a case purely on the relegation aspect of this whole thing, albeit they seem to have the legal of advice of two QCs who will be far more knowledgeable than me. Infact the point being made in that post isn't specific to Hearts or the current goings on. Any club no matter their dispute cannot go to the courts if they so choose. No matter if you agree of disagree with court action and no matter whatever the issue is any club will be  punished by a football body to the point of expulsion and up to £1m fine for going to the courts of the country they are in. They think they are above the law of the land. 

Edited by Fifes Elite Force

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My gut feel is that the 2 metre rule is almost insurmountable.  Think of a seat in the stand at EEP, draw a line for 2 metres in each distance, and consider the toilets....  We are an outlier using 2 metres, I do wonder if we might relax it a bit, and then the numbers might stack up a bit better for some clubs?

The more I think about the distance between seats the more unlikely it seems.

 

How many seats would you need in every direction to be 2 metres from everyone? Seats are roughly 40cm wide so maybe 5 empty seats? Plus 5 rows forward and back. If everyone “owns” 3 seats to one side and 2 the other. 3 rows in front and 2 behind, you’ve got one person in a grid of 36 seats.

 

Dens would have a capacity of roughly 329 and a chunk of that would be taken up by officials and stewards.

 

That’s clearly all based on little in depth thought, but with a crowd that low I’m not sure what the point is in going to the effort of having fans in at all, before you even get on to toilets etc.

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7 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

albeit they seem to have the legal of advice of two QCs who will be telling Hearts whatever they want to get paid. 

FTFY.

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5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

FTFY.

Probably something in that. I also think the chances are they are jambos offering their services so will be desperate to make a case out of it when so far I havnt seen anything really on the relegation aspect that make them win. I suppose we will see if they do go down the legal route what they have.Budge said yesterday they are ready to "push the button" on it when ready. She did say they were two independent legal opinions but were consistent together when they got them.

Edited by Fifes Elite Force

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1 minute ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

Probably something in that. 

It will be.

Hearts, desperate and with a wad of cash - "Do we have a case?"

QC, knowing he will get paid if it goes to court, even if it's a lost cause - "Well it would be worth a go"

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1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

It will be.

Hearts, desperate and with a wad of cash - "Do we have a case?"

QC, knowing he will get paid if it goes to court, even if it's a lost cause - "Well it would be worth a go"

could very well be

 

.

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18 minutes ago, stu2910 said:

The more I think about the distance between seats the more unlikely it seems.

 

How many seats would you need in every direction to be 2 metres from everyone? Seats are roughly 40cm wide so maybe 5 empty seats? Plus 5 rows forward and back. If everyone “owns” 3 seats to one side and 2 the other. 3 rows in front and 2 behind, you’ve got one person in a grid of 36 seats.

 

Dens would have a capacity of roughly 329 and a chunk of that would be taken up by officials and stewards.

 

That’s clearly all based on little in depth thought, but with a crowd that low I’m not sure what the point is in going to the effort of having fans in at all, before you even get on to toilets etc.

You can also factor in same household groups of fans sitting together, which would bump the crowd up a bit, still fine margins to be running at though.

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You can also factor in same household groups of fans sitting together, which would bump the crowd up a bit, still fine margins to be running at though.

Fair point, but yeh even a crowd of 1000 is hardly sustainable

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2 hours ago, farflung lichtie said:

One last point - I don’t think the geography/demographics of Scotland lends itself to such small leagues/divisions. If we can’t have two 22 team leagues (or22-24; coincidentally around the number of full time teams - but with more promotion/relegation, playoffs etc), then I’d prefer 14-14-16.

........ said absolutely nobody who remembers the 14 team divisions of the 80's.

It's not that long ago. It amazes me how many people can't recall why we came away from them in the first place.

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52 minutes ago, stu2910 said:

The more I think about the distance between seats the more unlikely it seems.

 

How many seats would you need in every direction to be 2 metres from everyone? Seats are roughly 40cm wide so maybe 5 empty seats? Plus 5 rows forward and back. If everyone “owns” 3 seats to one side and 2 the other. 3 rows in front and 2 behind, you’ve got one person in a grid of 36 seats.

 

Dens would have a capacity of roughly 329 and a chunk of that would be taken up by officials and stewards.

 

That’s clearly all based on little in depth thought, but with a crowd that low I’m not sure what the point is in going to the effort of having fans in at all, before you even get on to toilets etc.

There was some research on this a few weeks ago I read and the general thinking was that under social distancing Ibrox for instance would have a capacity of about 5,000. Not sure it would be as simple as 10% or so across the board, it's bound to be different for clubs with terracing for a start, but as a rough starting point I imagine 10% if 2m remains in place is a fair guess,

33 minutes ago, Dee-funked said:

You can also factor in same household groups of fans sitting together, which would bump the crowd up a bit, still fine margins to be running at though.

We did this debate in the Ayr thread last week, whilst that's potentially true, they are going to have to set ground capacity limits by calculation and it's not going to change because Mr & Mrs Smith turn up with their three kids on the day. 

In practice capacities will be set by Councils on the assumption that supporters are all unrelated.

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