Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[da_no_1]

If there is some cost that folk are unaware of that mean the club can't extend the contracts of these players (even if it's just for 1 month or even if it's for 3 or 4) then the club need to say what it is, and should have said so from the start.

I still am not on board at all with the taxpayer arguments. The taxpayers are ripped off on a far bigger scale on a regular basis. I don't consider this ripping off the taxpayer though, and I'm happy to contribute towards it as a taxpayer. 

I'd go further and say that I'd be happy for anyone to exploit the system if it means more folk are guaranteed income for longer. Obviously if the club can't afford this I would absolutely understand if they didn't do it and would agree, but if it costs clubs nothing then I'd be all for them exploiting every single loophole if it means they can help people. 

Danny Devine is absolutely shite and I'm glad he'll never play for the club again, but I don't personally hate the man and him being garbage doesn't mean I want his family to potentially suffer. If it costs the club nothing then I absolutely want them to help Devine and everyone else, regardless of how short or long that period is.

It can't be anything to do with the short term costs of the contracts. It's been pointed out repeatedly on here today that it wouldn't cost the club a penny. So there must be something else to it otherwise we would be doing it.

 

There's no point going over it again and again until the club clarifies their position further, which I'd be amazed if they didn't do next week.

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

2 hours ago, da_no_1 said:

And another thing.....
So I'm thinking about guys like Devine Paton and Ashcroft. Every summer there's a big turnaround at most clubs. The majority of freed players get new deals. What do they do with their monthly salary? A/ Pish it up the wall? Or B/ keep some back to cover the close season when they might not get paid trying to find another club?

A wee bit forward planning by them should have seen them covered for any goodwill contract offers the likes of Ayr and Dundee are dolling out

You’re right, of course you are. They should indeed have planned ahead, not just to cover a few weeks when they might be “between clubs” but also for the possibility that a once-in-a-century pandemic might come along which could see them unable to get another job in football for maybe several months and which could leave them looking for jobs outwith the game at a time where the ratio of jobseekers to available jobs will be at its worst for decades.

It’s such an obvious thing to have planned for, and if they haven’t then they obviously have only themselves to blame.

 

 

2 hours ago, da_no_1 said:

3 hours ago, D said:

Cos we do the right thing.

Well let's hope it doesn't come back to haunt you then

^^^ definitely hoping it comes back to haunt them.

[Derry Alli]

Major development :

 

 

[da_no_1]

^^^ definitely hoping it comes back to haunt them.

Fucks sake. I've answered this on another thread.

I'm not hoping for anything.

[Hursty]

4 hours ago, Chubbychops said:

Ext

Yeah, guys who were not getting a contract with Ayr after May anyway?  Why are Ayr not giving 1-2 year contracts if they want to keep these players?I would rather my taxation went to getting people off the streets and helping the disabled, than keeping Ayr's deadwood with a wage they don't have to pay for.

I suspect the majority of the Ayr ones (other than possibly some of the u20's that I'm not aware of) would probably have been / will be offered something for next season whenever it comes round.  With the possible exception of Geggan who is always injured.  Maybe on reduced terms as we apparently did with Moffat and a few others last summer but dpnt think there was wholesale clearouts planned.   Would be absolute madness to dish out a 1 or 2 year contract just now though considering it could be 3 / 6 / 12 months until we have any income in from fans paying at the gate. 

[rb123!]

Dunfernline fans claiming keeping Football players furloughed is a waste of taxpayers money.

Dunfermline Athletic, the club who came through an administration period which no doubt had some tax payers money used at some point to keep them afloat.

Just saying.....

[johnnydun]

6 days for Furlough money from date of claim.

5 weeks for Universal Credit from date of claim.

If I were a Club Director, I know what one I would rather give to an employee.

[CALDERON]

Can't see how it's cheating tax payers. The furlough scheme is there to make sure people aren't left without income as a result of not being able to work due to the virus. Granted, releasing out of contract players always happens, but they would likely go and sign elsewhere and continue to work. 

Dunfermline or whoever else did this would be getting zero benefit. So it's certainly not cheating anyone, it's making sure players aren't unable to earn as a result of the crisis. 

That said Dunfermline need to do what they believe is best for their club. 

[jagsfan57]

Nothing wrong with it legally as Ayr have not announced that any of them have been or are going to be released yet , along with the point that we are still speaking to a number of them  about returning next season , hopefully by end of this furlough we will have a better idea of start time thus helping with offering a player a solid contract 

Not trying to make a point - does that include the guy that signed a PCA with Thistle ?

[Finlay21]

3 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

Not trying to make a point - does that include the guy that signed a PCA with Thistle ?

My understanding is that the 2 players who have signed with other clubs are exempt , 

[HoBNob]

9 hours ago, rb123! said:

Dunfernline fans claiming keeping Football players furloughed is a waste of taxpayers money.

Dunfermline Athletic, the club who came through an administration period which no doubt had some tax payers money used at some point to keep them afloat.

Just saying.....

Dunfermline Athletic, the club that's came out of administration with largely the same board that saved the club, not taking any chances that might see us back in that situation. If we have had any inkling from HMRC that we could be bummed for this further down the line, then I can absolutely understand why we're not doing it. 

Dundee and Ayr have rich owners who have shown they're willing to pay off large losses. Dunfermline and QoTS don't. 

[eez-eh]

The furlough scheme is designed to stop folk from losing their income as a result of the pandemic. The vast majority of players who are released would normally find another club within 1/2 months. There’s next to no chance anyone who gets released right now will find another club (or even another job altogether) any time soon.

On that basis this seems to be exactly what the scheme is designed for. And it’s hardly like it’s just football clubs are doing it, plenty of other industries have been extending fixed term contracts or even re-hiring recently redundant staff to ensure they get a wage. because the rules allow them to do so. It’s not like we’re talking about well-paid footballers here either, there’ll be plenty of people on here who earn far more them.

I really can’t fathom anyone vehemently defending chucking an entire squad onto the scrap heap, who would normally have options for finding employment, but now have next to no chance of finding a job in the coming months or even year. Unless you’re just so blinded by support for your club, or just a bit of a c**t.

[Rudolph Hucker]

^^^ That post thumps the nail right on the head and should bring that debate to an end, at least until more specific and reliable guidance from HMRC sources becomes available.

Such a shame that it won’t.

[No_Problemo]

Professional footballers in the Scottish second tier get punted in their droves at this time of the year on an annual basis. If they were banking on the long term job security of football to feed their bedraggled family on a weekly basis then they're simply too thick to understand their own industry. 
They're just going to have to either suck it up and seek an alternative form of government income support like literally hundreds of thousands of others across Scotland in the months to come or ramp up their shitey Herbalife rackets instead. 

They ordinarily get punted in their droves and find another club - that isn’t possible.

It would be perfectly sensible for them to be banking on a small period without an income, not something to this scale.

Clubs can simply extend deals and utilise the furlough agreement instead of another government income support scheme. I don’t particularly see the issue and why anyone would take exception to that.

[Rudolph Hucker]

4 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

They ordinarily get punted in their droves and find another club - that isn’t possible.

It would be perfectly sensible for them to be banking on a small period without an income, not something to this scale.

Clubs can simply extend deals and utilise the furlough agreement instead of another government income support scheme. I don’t particularly see the issue and why anyone would take exception to that.

 

.......maybe it’s just that some people are arseholes?

[Guest Axle Grease]

1 minute ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

.......maybe it’s just that some people are arseholes?

This is true. 

Is there a reason you have so many of those red dot things? 

[Rudolph Hucker]

There is indeed, but I can’t be arsed going into it yet again. 
Thanks for noticing though.

 

ETA - I've just had 4 notifications, all within the same minute - "virginton reacted to a post in a topic Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship 1 minute ago".  Don't think I need to look to see what colour those wee dots will be.  

Turns out he gave me seven of 'em in twenty minutes. No replies, just wee rid dots. Sad. I'd be cut to the quick, if I knew where it was. 

"Infamy, Infamy - he's definitely got it in f'me!"

Edited May 24, 2020 by Rudolph Hucker

[vikingTON]

11 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

 

They ordinarily get punted in their droves and find another club - that isn’t possible.

It would be perfectly sensible for them to be banking on a small period without an income, not something to this scale.

Clubs can simply extend deals and utilise the furlough agreement instead of another government income support scheme. I don’t particularly see the issue and why anyone would take exception to that.
 

 

Many professional footballers in fact don't just walk into a new club and drop out of the game entirely. If you're a bit part player in the Scottish second tier then that is a career obstacle that you should be prepared for. They also aren't left without an income: it's just off to the Job Centre for them like the rest of the plebs. Footballers do not have a divine right to their chosen 'full time' career.

The reason why they're out of work is 90% down to the standard contract cycle of football. It is not incumbent on clubs to just keep them around indefinitely and improper to do so at the taxpayers' expense beyond the end of the current season.

[Monkey Tennis]

13 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

If there is some cost that folk are unaware of that mean the club can't extend the contracts of these players (even if it's just for 1 month or even if it's for 3 or 4) then the club need to say what it is, and should have said so from the start.

I still am not on board at all with the taxpayer arguments. The taxpayers are ripped off on a far bigger scale on a regular basis. I don't consider this ripping off the taxpayer though, and I'm happy to contribute towards it as a taxpayer. 

I'd go further and say that I'd be happy for anyone to exploit the system if it means more folk are guaranteed income for longer. Obviously if the club can't afford this I would absolutely understand if they didn't do it and would agree, but if it costs clubs nothing then I'd be all for them exploiting every single loophole if it means they can help people. 

Danny Devine is absolutely shite and I'm glad he'll never play for the club again, but I don't personally hate the man and him being garbage doesn't mean I want his family to potentially suffer. If it costs the club nothing then I absolutely want them to help Devine and everyone else, regardless of how short or long that period is.

It's interesting this.

For me, the similar decision Queens have reached struck me initially as a complete no brainer.  Most these players would have been released now, pandemic or not, so doing so in these circumstances seems entirely sensible.

I suppose the difference though, is that they'll be unable to pick up a new employer just now, so furlough could come into play. If keeping them on would have allowed that, perhaps we should have offered it, so long as it carried no risk to the club.

Is there genuine doubt about this?  

[Rudolph Hucker]

58 minutes ago, virginton said:

Many professional footballers in fact don't just walk into a new club and drop out of the game entirely. If you're a bit part player in the Scottish second tier then that is a career obstacle that you should be prepared for. They also aren't left without an income: it's just off to the Job Centre for them like the rest of the plebs. Footballers do not have a divine right to their chosen 'full time' career.

The reason why they're out of work is 90% down to the standard contract cycle of football. It is not incumbent on clubs to just keep them around indefinitely and improper to do so at the taxpayers' expense beyond the end of the current season.

Your first para is a statement of the bleedin’ obvious which I doubt that many on here needed. Thanx anyway though, I suppose.

Re it being “improper” to extend contracts beyond the end of the month - not under the terms of the furlough scheme, matey.