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Granny Danger

Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

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4 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Im sure you're right.  The alternative could be, though, that there are no clubs for Hearts to play against.

Im also pretty sure Hearts have no problem in taking the pooled TV money generated by the OF, or that they would argue strongly against either of the OF breaking away from that and selling their broadcast rights separately.

True, but we are effectively discussing replacement gate receipts here, not 'tv money'. Hearts would have earned far more of that than everyone else. Their crowds are bigger, their stadium is bigger and their prices much bigger.

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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Watched the Scotland Tonight programme last night about Scottish Football and i thought Ian Maxwell spoke very well on it, unusual to see from someone at the top of Scottish Football.

Ian Maxwell seems convinced that this paid live streaming to fans could work and there's currently an SPFL media team looking into making it work. Looks as if SPFL media teams could stream each game instead of the individual clubs doing it. 

Also said if these regional hubs happen it would be with fans there and not closed doors. 

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3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

True, but we are effectively discussing replacement gate receipts here, not 'tv money'. Hearts would have earned far more of that than everyone else. Their crowds are bigger, their stadium is bigger and their prices much bigger.

Potato ... potato.

We're also talking about an alternative media broadcast platform. And the reason the OF generate more "tv money" is because they have bigger crowds/fanbases.

Its all linked.

It would be insanely hypocritical of any club, outside the OF, to complain about pooling streaming income with smaller clubs. Not that that will stop them, of course

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2 minutes ago, rb123! said:

Watched the Scotland Tonight programme last night about Scottish Football and i thought Ian Maxwell spoke very well on it, unusual to see from someone at the top of Scottish Football.

Ian Maxwell seems convinced that this paid live streaming to fans could work and there's currently an SPFL media team looking into making it work. Looks as if SPFL media teams could stream each game instead of the individual clubs doing it. 

Also said if these regional hubs happen it would be with fans there and not closed doors. 

The media group is made up of reps from big clubs and clubs who already stream matches, in the main. My concern is that they come up with some plan that works for bigger clubs but not for smaller ones.

I cant see how the SPFL could provide the resources to cover and stream every game. 

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13 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I think, and I'm really not trying to be a smartass here or get at Johnny (I accidentally pissed off the Ayr fans last weekend), that most of the people talking about this as if it is remotely viable arent conscious of anything like the numbers involved in running a football club. There isnt the slightest chance that closed door professional football can be funded in any way by online subs at this level. If we are suggesting teams fill squads with amateurs then maybe but the problem there will be the clubs who already have pros signed up in great numbers.

It wouldnt be profitable at all. I think the point you are missing is footballers generally are not employed now, or shortly wont be. Dundee have a relatively full squad, and for the moment insurance that will help though that wont last forever and you can bet it wont be renewed whenever its up for renewal. But most other clubs at this level will have less than 11 players signed. Signing players to play loss making games is absolute madness and will accelerate the clubs into financial difficulties far more so than mothballing until we can open 'normally'. It would need some sort of mass Govt subsidy to run without crowds in even the medium term of a couple of months.

The big Leagues are coming back closed door because the penalty clauses to tv companies for not playing are worse than the costs of playing. Thats not a factor for us. If it cant be done profitably (or at least with lower losses than not playing) then its not going to be.

I dont think a trial of a bounce friendly will be meaningful at all except in proving the technology works for those clubs who didnt already do it. 

Otherwise though pretty much agree with everything else you said. If we knew crowds could return in October say then we could amend the fixture schedule or consider whether playing a month or two closed door is achievable if required. But you cant employ a squad now in the vague hope you might be able to generate income in 3 or 4 months but might not be able to until at least 2021.

The idea that Hearts for instance, who are pretty much furious with every club other than Inverness, are going to merrily offer to pool the subs of their fans so that Alloa, Arbroath and QoS can maybe think about employing a team is ridiculous.

Bundesliga had a novelty last week (& I still didnt watch it, but I dont have BT). By the time we might come back the main Euro Leagues will already be back and nobody neutral will be desperately lacking a football fix. Nobody is going to pay to watch Championship games without a vested interest in one of the teams. Hell if I had to pay on an individual match basis I wouldnt watch half the games on Sky that I do!

I don't think you're being a smart arse or getting at me, I think this has all been a respectful, healthy debate and your counter argument has been appreciated. 

I do know the levels of staffing needed to run a club, it is most of those people that I am thinking about when looking into the possibility of paying for streams. The alternative is those people are out of work for possibly a year.

Like I have said I maybe am overestimating, however I when we are talking about job losses I think all options need to be considered. I think this needs surveyed at least.

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3 minutes ago, Mr X said:

The media group is made up of reps from big clubs and clubs who already stream matches, in the main. My concern is that they come up with some plan that works for bigger clubs but not for smaller ones.

I cant see how the SPFL could provide the resources to cover and stream every game. 

Perhaps easier if the hub idea comes to fruition.

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5 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Im sure you're right.  The alternative could be, though, that there are no clubs for Hearts to play against.

Im also pretty sure Hearts have no problem in taking the pooled TV money generated by the OF, or that they would argue strongly against either of the OF breaking away from that and selling their broadcast rights separately.

If we were looking at a contingent of clubs at this level who were not able to find any way to make up that best case >50% shortfall in income, I'm wondering if an alternative could be to try and set-up a one-off temp league that is set up with bare minimum costs and contract out of work players in to the set-up (and ideally represent their existing club but be flexible and contract to league body so everyone has numbers). We could then maybe look at subscription models with that (or even looking at doing this as a joint venture with broadcasters - there is some shared interest there to protect their contract the best they can) and seeing how we can cost accordingly leasing one or two facilities.

A bit batshit and American but could the a newco league body 'loans' the identity of the clubs for a year (or would that incur their liabilities)? I wouldn't have thought that was ever possible but we all saw Rangers etc.

The complete hibernation of some clubs would be toxic if it come to that, you really wouldn't be able to assess how much it'll damage your future income.

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9 minutes ago, rb123! said:

Watched the Scotland Tonight programme last night about Scottish Football and i thought Ian Maxwell spoke very well on it, unusual to see from someone at the top of Scottish Football.

 

I don't think you've set the bar very high.

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21 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

The big Leagues are coming back closed door because the penalty clauses to tv companies for not playing are worse than the costs of playing.

Does this not beg the question of what the longer term consequences of clubs at our level saying that they are not going to compete for a season? What would the process of withdrawal actually look like - would there have to be an agreement or vote with Premiership clubs that they would not have any relegation? Would that damage the TV deal? Would the Championship-League 2 clubs be surrendering their share of prize money to the Premiership clubs for a season, and how would the amounts be negotiated back thereafter? I have no idea how any of this would actually work - would we be voting away our slice of TV funding in the hope that Premiership clubs would give it back or is there something which would stop them from doing that?

Would a club like Morton be giving away their current % level of prize money in exchange for the hope that they would get that level back when they returned to playing? What would the return to football look like if we had to pay for insurances, water rates, pitch maintenance, ongoing payments (for the online ticket system, for example), and any other costs for a year with no football and then we come back from a position of no staff with no assurances of the level of prize money at the other end? Would it be like the 2001/02 season when we returned with nothing after administration and had trials in the park in order to get a part-time team back on the park?

What would the penalties end up being if we didn't resume?

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12 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I don't think you've set the bar very high.

You can't really with the hiearchy of Scottish Football

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8 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

Does this not beg the question of what the longer term consequences of clubs at our level saying that they are not going to compete for a season? What would the process of withdrawal actually look like - would there have to be an agreement or vote with Premiership clubs that they would not have any relegation? Would that damage the TV deal? Would the Championship-League 2 clubs be surrendering their share of prize money to the Premiership clubs for a season, and how would the amounts be negotiated back thereafter? I have no idea how any of this would actually work - would we be voting away our slice of TV funding in the hope that Premiership clubs would give it back or is there something which would stop them from doing that?

Would a club like Morton be giving away their current % level of prize money in exchange for the hope that they would get that level back when they returned to playing? What would the return to football look like if we had to pay for insurances, water rates, pitch maintenance, ongoing payments (for the online ticket system, for example), and any other costs for a year with no football and then we come back from a position of no staff with no assurances of the level of prize money at the other end? Would it be like the 2001/02 season when we returned with nothing after administration and had trials in the park in order to get a part-time team back on the park?

What would the penalties end up being if we didn't resume?

Its not just prize money that would be an unknown if clubs "mothballed" for a year. How many fans would come back? Or sponsors and advertisers?

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3 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Its not just prize money that would be an unknown if clubs "mothballed" for a year. How many fans would come back? Or sponsors and advertisers?

True fans don’t desert their clubs.

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Just now, Granny Danger said:

True fans don’t desert their clubs.

Apart from if it's a game they are relegated at by thier arch rivals.

Sorry, couldn't help it.

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2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

That might increase costs. Would they be buying equipment to be shared or does everyone get kitted out? If shared your the talking about staggered kick off times. Would they be chipping in for a few pro cameramen and commentators?

I've tried making this idea of streaming add up to a viable project but it falls to pieces every time I apply any thought to it.

Theres your problem right there.

Scottish Football dosent need your kind!

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8 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

True fans don’t desert their clubs.

No, they dont. But what proportion of a normal attendance is made up of "true fans"?

Clubs spend a lot of time and effort attracting new and casual fans to  games. How many of them will find other things to spend their time and money on?

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6 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Apart from if it's a game they are relegated at by thier arch rivals.

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Don’t be sorry.  If things go badly for you’re club you Can always get a ST for Tannadice.

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Hot air balloons are the answer here. VIPs taken up above the pitch to watch the match. Included in the trip will be champagne, pie and shortbread.  Balloons will match team colours. POA.

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5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Don’t be sorry.  If things go badly for you’re club you Can always get a ST for Tannadice.

I would rather cut off my arms than have them in jobby sleeves.

Edited by johnnydun

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3 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

Hot air balloons are the answer here. VIPs taken up above the pitch to watch the match. Included in the trip will be champagne, pie and shortbread.  Balloons will match team colours. POA.

Is that not one of Falkirk's initiatives?  They've tried the hot tub.

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Just now, forameus said:

Is that not one of Falkirk's initiatives?  They've tried the hot tub.

They tried it but it but their prototype descended from the sky as the crowd in it was too big.

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